Question about "how2priest"

[phus]

So i just crafted gemmed and socketed my robes of creation, which according to [H2P] Shadow BiS (Raid), is better than Spelltwister's Grand Robe. But then i checked out the "BIS pre raiding gear" thread and it shows that its the other way around.

I then looked at the stat weights and for raiding the stats were:

Int = 1.0000
Spirit = 0.6296
Spell Power = 0.8026
Hit = 0.6296
Crit = 0.4299
Haste = 0.4475
Mastery = 0.4073
DPS (Pure Damage) = 0.2332

Then for the "preraiding" it went:
Int = 1.0000
Spirit = 0.6181
Spell Power = 0.8151
Hit = 0.6181
Crit = 0.4099
Haste = 0.7861
Mastery = 0.3717
DPS (Pure Damage) = 0.2552

Is it different because you dont need as much hit in heroics as you do for raiding? I dunno whats going on here...

[cfmcghee]

As others will tell you, the very best way to make sure that you have the proper stat weights is to Simcraft your character. Any list is just suggested generic run-of-the mill. If you are looking for the extra 10%, then simcraft your character. You you are not, then use H2P or Mr. Robot.

[Lothan]

I believe those raiding stats you listed are looking at being above the haste cap, which is 8085 unless you are goblin, not sure what it is for goblin off the top of my head. But below that point, haste value will be much higher and it drops off considerably after that amount which accounts for haste showing .4475 on the raiding list and .7861 on the preraiding list. All the rest of the stats have adjusted accordingly because of the haste plateau.

[phus]

Okay, well that being said i am under haste cap so should i craft the other robes that have the haste on them? Then once i get enough haste thru other gear swap back?

[Ravyna]

get the hasterobes and you prob wont wear them anymore when you reach the hastecap you need quite alot of gear to reach the hastebreakpoint in the first content

[Drye]

So instead of asking on H2P you go to a different website to ask about the original websites information, instead of just asking on the original website?

[Yvaelle]

Stat weights are pretty much going to be different every time you generate them based on your gear, your talents, your glyphs, the fight you're on, the number of targets, etc - I listed them in my guide based on a set I made out pre-raid entry-level gear during the beta - and because some people ask for these weights. I'm thinking about taking them off because they mostly cause confusion, so if you find contradictory numbers it could be for any of the reasons above: maybe one calculation was based on 509 BiS gear, and the other was based on a 463 set, and both were talking about Patchwerk. The specific weights aren't really the important part of stat weights - whats important is the relationship between the stats - and ideally based on multiple encounter types - but in the same gear set (so if you fight Stone Dogs, and then you fight Feng your gear works for both). Hit cap on any type of fight is very important, but the absolutely value of hit is lower for heroics than for raid bosses. The haste breakpoint at 8085 is relevant for both, and haste is our next best stat up to that breakpoint. So the important relationship is: Int > Spellpower > Hit > Haste >> Crit ~= Mastery. This means gear level (int, spellpower) is very important - and that much is mostly intuitive to people - always landing your spells is very important - and then getting lots of DoTs out that tick faster is next most important: after that it doesn't really matter.

As a general rule for the first tier, stack spirit/haste - the reason is that your going to need pretty much full 489 and partial 509's probably to reach both the hit and the haste cap. Even once you reach those caps (hit cap and 8085 haste breakpoint) that doesn't instantly mean hit and haste on gear sucks, it means continuing to stack it is (worthless in the case of hit above 15%) and not quite as good in the case of haste as other stats.

But you will still have only achieved those scores by stacking and gemming and enchanting and reforging spirit and haste to get there, so if you have full spirit/haste gear on every slot, that's really not a bad thing - because you can just swap gems and reforges around to get whichever other stats you want to the level you want them: in fact, it would really be ideal to have spirit/hit + haste in every slot for this reason, it makes your ability to adjust stats appropriately more flexible.

What we are really going to see is this:

Right now, for this tier - spirit(hit) and haste are the stat kings, but next tier and the following tiers - int will become the big stat again. How will we trade spirit/haste for int, you ask? Because right now we're gemming spirit/haste to get to 15% hit / 8085 haste respectively, but in future tiers we won't really be looking at crit or mastery as some people seem to suspect. All our gems will revert to int (like past expansions), because we will be able to achieve both the hit cap and the relevant haste breakpoints through gear alone without any gems - removing all our spirit/haste gems will require us to get more out of our gear secondary stats.

TL;DR - stack spirit/haste like crazy, when it stops being relevant we will start using int gems instead of spirit/haste gems - so really crit/mastery will ideally never become very relevant, but when they do - it will be mostly due to choosing a poorly itemized piece of gear - or eventually when our item levels are so high that we can barely reforge ourselves below the hit/haste caps - and are forced to choose a quaternary stat between the two.

[Twintop]

maybe one calculation was based on 509 BiS gear, and the other was based on a 463 set, and both were talking about Patchwerk.

Both sets are a composite of 5 different fight types in single and 2-target scenarios, taking the top 2 DPS options for L45 and L75 talent combinations for each fight/target type combination; I.E.: 90 total sims, taking the top 2 from each of 10 categories = 20 of 90 sim types go in to the stat weights. This is NOT just 'run it with Patchwerk and call it good."

The raid BiS list's stats use the 'bis' profile from SimC (ilvl ~510), while the pre-raid uses a set of ~489 gear that is below the 8085 hate breakpoint.


More on topic, to quote what Dyre said: why come here for a question about something on another site? The BiS list is posted over here, too, but the pre-raid one is not.

[Yvaelle]

Both sets are a composite of 5 different fight types in single and 2-target scenarios, taking the top 2 DPS options for L45 and L75 talent combinations for each fight/target type combination; I.E.: 90 total sims, taking the top 2 from each of 10 categories = 20 of 90 sim types go in to the stat weights. This is NOT just 'run it with Patchwerk and call it good."

The raid BiS list's stats use the 'bis' profile from SimC (ilvl ~510), while the pre-raid uses a set of ~489 gear that is below the 8085 hate breakpoint.


More on topic, to quote what Dyre said: why come here for a question about something on another site? The BiS list is posted over here, too, but the pre-raid one is not.

Actually I was thinking specifically of your composite scores when I suggested that the multiple scores the OP had found could be for specific gear sets under specific fight conditions and how they weren't generally appropriate to fuss over the weights themselves but the most general of patterns (namely that hit cap and haste breakpoints remain the most valuable under all fight conditions and gear levels this tier).

(So I didn't recognize that they were referring to your H2P post)

[Vargur]

Okay, well that being said i am under haste cap so should i craft the other robes that have the haste on them? Then once i get enough haste thru other gear swap back?

Also get 320 haste gems where possible, if not in all sockets. You decide.

Twintop has a nice list btw.

[Veiled]

Also get 320 haste gems where possible, if not in all sockets. You decide.

Twintop has a nice list btw.

It's the same list that the OP is talking about.

[dpqt]

Also get 320 haste gems where possible, if not in all sockets. You decide.

Twintop has a nice list btw.

lol yea please socket 320haste so every decent priest can have a good laugh.

Please post constructively.

[Arlee]

Sort of off-topic but since it was brought up here I'll say it. Guys PLEASE do not try to turn the whole socket int vs socket haste thing into a rehash of being hit caped or not from the last expansion. As with that, there are valid points on both sides and real conversations can be had about either method. Ridiculing people, as usual, is not acceptable. You think someone's reasons for something not working are wrong? Then bring the maths and bring the logics... (yes I know logics isn't a real word)... but leave elitist attitudes at the door.

[Twintop]

Actually I was thinking specifically of your composite scores when I suggested that the multiple scores the OP had found could be for specific gear sets under specific fight conditions and how they weren't generally appropriate to fuss over the weights themselves but the most general of patterns (namely that hit cap and haste breakpoints remain the most valuable under all fight conditions and gear levels this tier).

(So I didn't recognize that they were referring to your H2P post)

No worries, just trying to clear up any confusion that might be swirling around. And I absolutely agree, unless you're bleeding edge progression when you're min-maxing on an encounter by encounter basis to super extremes, going for a single good overall gearset is the best course of action.