Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Daelak]

Crime isn't going anywhere, ever. People want to steal, mug, or kill an individual will do so. The aim argument for guns is to take one of the most efficient killing tools out of the hands of citizens. In doing so, a decline in gun massacres would most likely happen if we follow the statistics of other countries with strict gun control.

Less crazy kids able to shoot up a school, less accidents from gun ownership within a family, less chances some thug will own a black market priced weapon in order to steal my $200 I have on hand, etc.

This precisely. They will deflect to some type of nebulous 'culture' difference between US citizens and citizens of other developed nations like Western Europe and Australia.

[Rooflesstoofless]

The General Social Survey is actually a face to face interview. Not sure why that should matter. But thanks for your insightful contribution to this thread.

Yeah, even then I highly doubt most people will disclose their firearm ownership.

[TZucchini]

I don't know a single firearm owner that would disclose such information over the phone to a random caller no matter who they claimed to be. Most don't even disclose their firearm ownership over social media.

Again. This type of statement isn't evidence for the belief that people in 2014 are more likely to lie to the GSS than they were in 1973.

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Yeah, even then I highly doubt most people will disclose their firearm ownership.

And yet at least 32% of the respondents do disclose of their ownership. Will some people lie? Probably. Did people lie in 1973? Probably. I've yet to see evidence that suggests an increase in lying.

[Rooflesstoofless]

This precisely. They will deflect to some type of nebulous 'culture' difference between US citizens and citizens of other developed nations like Western Europe and Australia.

Or just demand that those wanting to do the disarming get the guns out of the hands of the bad guys first. Most people I know don't own guns because they are a gun nut or enthusiast or anything of the sort. They own it because pandora's box was already opened a long time ago.

[Daelak]

Yeah, even then I highly doubt most people will disclose their firearm ownership.

Why would you doubt it?

[MasterOfNone]

I think a key thing to remember here, as time has gone by, people have been more wary of volunteering said information.

The government has continued to create a divide among itself and gun owners as time has progressed.

i can back this up personally. i know me and my family (owning dozens of guns) refuse to answer surveys about gun ownership. its not paranoia, its just not their damn business.

[Tinykong]

he's still using the phone survey bs to support his claims? jesus im not sure if its head in sand or up ass at this point with that

This is the guy who willfully believes telephone response survey data from the 1970's and 1990's is still relevant as an indicator for people's opinions today, despite being shown that response rates and other factors have changed since then.

[Daelak]

Or just demand that those wanting to do the disarming get the guns out of the hands of the bad guys first. Most people I know don't own guns because they are a gun nut or enthusiast or anything of the sort. They own it because pandora's box was already opened a long time ago.

Pandora's box? Is this some reference to the end times or "blackies taking over the suburbs", or a misinformed meme of how the gun manufacturer's have wholly made a positive feedback loop in gun sales and potential government response to mass shooting hysteria/masculinity/"ever growing tyranny"?

[TZucchini]

This is the guy who willfully believes telephone response survey data from the 1970's and 1990's is still relevant as an indicator for people's opinions today, despite being shown that response rates and other factors have changed since then.

Guess you missed the memo that the GSS is face-to-face.

Yes, I believe it's relevant. It's by no means the be-all-end-all. Just one piece of evidence to throw on top of the pile.

And changes in response rates throughout the years effect truthfulness of responses...how exactly? Because that is what's being discussed here.

[MasterOfNone]

Again. This type of statement isn't evidence for the belief that people in 2014 are more likely to lie to the GSS than they were in 1973.

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And yet at least 32% of the respondents do disclose of their ownership. Will some people lie? Probably. Did people lie in 1973? Probably. I've yet to see evidence that suggests an increase in lying.

so how many gun owners do you know that would or wouldnt? i know plenty more than you i assure you. none of them will give up that information freely. even if it cant be proved i have more PERSONAL proof than you do. you can call it anecdotal all you want because there is no way to prove one way or the other, but gun owners know.

[Daelak]

i can back this up personally. i know me and my family (owning dozens of guns) refuse to answer surveys about gun ownership. its not paranoia, its just not their damn business.

That's fine, it's voluntary, but statistical inference can be made by non-response and people who do response, giving a plausible number of guns per household within a certain MoE.

[Roxinius]

This is the guy who willfully believes telephone response survey data from the 1970's and 1990's is still relevant as an indicator for people's opinions today, despite being shown that response rates and other factors have changed since then.

and even if it is face to face whos going to disclose such info wither it be phone or face to face its still none of your damn business what i own

[TZucchini]

so how many gun owners do you know that would or wouldnt?

I know 100,000 guns owners, and I spoke with each one, and they all said that they would be truthful.

^^^Can you see why I'd ask for real evidence, and not personal stories.

[Rooflesstoofless]

Again. This type of statement isn't evidence for the belief that people in 2014 are more likely to lie to the GSS than they were in 1973.

lol, ok then. This is just a testament to your ignorance of what is actually discussed within the shooting community more than anything else.

And yet at least 32% of the respondents do disclose of their ownership. Will some people lie? Probably. Did people lie in 1973? Probably. I've yet to see evidence that suggests an increase in lying.

Right, I said most; not all. You aren't going to get solid evidence people are lying, but it is pretty well known within the shooting communities that disclosing firearm ownership is not a good idea. Also, firearm ownership trends vary depending on the survey you are looking at.

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Why would you doubt it?

Because out of the couple dozen gun owners I personally know not a single one would disclose their ownership of firearms to a random person at their door or over the phone. Even the police departments around me say not to disclose that information because criminals have been known to use that kind of information to to target people's homes for theft and such.

[MasterOfNone]

That's fine, it's voluntary, but statistical inference can be made by non-response and people who do response, giving a plausible number of guns per household within a certain MoE.

its not even plausible IMO. now i grant you this is my take on this personally, BUT believe you kind of have to be a pro gun for the most part to understand this. sitting back saying gun owners that exist did this survey and its plausible or even proof that the number has decreased is just WAY off by my personal experience.

[Rooflesstoofless]

Pandora's box? Is this some reference to the end times or "blackies taking over the suburbs", or a misinformed meme of how the gun manufacturer's have wholly made a positive feedback loop in gun sales and potential government response to mass shooting hysteria/masculinity/"ever growing tyranny"?

Are you dumb? It is referencing that people are realists and many out there own firearms because bad stuff can and does happen and bad people already have firearms.

Whatever racist bullshit you got from that is your own doing.

[MasterOfNone]

I know 100,000 guns owners, and I spoke with each one, and they all said that they would be truthful.

^^^Can you see why I'd ask for real evidence, and not personal stories.

if the evidence doesnt support your claim or mine, then why are you screaming for evidence. you are asking for something that is not possible in FACTS. the irony is it doesnt seem to change your overall opinion on it considering you dont have and cant GET the facts.

edit- you do not even seem interested in postulating the opposite. you would rather bury your head in the sand on something that isnt fact, while pointing the finger at the opposite saying "where are the facts?"

[ellieg]

Are you dumb? It is referencing that people are realists and many out there own firearms because bad stuff can and does happen and bad people already have firearms.

Whatever racist bullshit you got from that is your own doing.

I wouldn't worry about him. Hes really "good" at putting words into other peoples mouth. Hes like a super anti racist to the point that hes racist. "oh youre afraid something bad will happen? you must think black people do bad things and u hate black people."

[Daelak]

Because out of the couple dozen gun owners I personally know not a single one would disclose their ownership of firearms to a random person at their door or over the phone. Even the police departments around me say not to disclose that information because criminals have been known to use that kind of information to to target people's homes for theft and such.

So all gun owners = the gun owners you know?

[NineSpine]

That's fine, it's voluntary, but statistical inference can be made by non-response and people who do response, giving a plausible number of guns per household within a certain MoE.

Most studies related to gun ownership don't use studies to get the numbers. They use frequency of suicide by gun, as that is a valid proxy. It correlates very precisely with gun ownership.