Should we reroll if we wanna seriously PvP in 5.2?

[romeolockz]

does anyone else notice that the most op talent ever to come to wow warlocks and it still doesnt put them on par with other classes. i mean really casters being able to move and cast at the same time! whats next rogues being able to melee and use autoattacks from ranged o.O

[shinewaylee]

As I know,players like naga,snutz have given up lock's pvp.
Now,we even have "op" BF,while 5.1 is our worst season. 5.2?You need reroll!

[pitakos]

does anyone else notice that the most op talent ever to come to wow warlocks and it still doesnt put them on par with other classes. i mean really casters being able to move and cast at the same time! whats next rogues being able to melee and use autoattacks from ranged o.O

Being able to move and cast is not so op nowadays if you consider the number of cc and interupts available on every comp.Add the extra slow you put on yourself on par with enemy's slows and enchanced mobility and you cant avoid anyone simply walking on you.

In general other caster classes have a big variaty of spells to pinch their enemies down, slow them and or kite them that i would gladly trade for moving casts

[Deleted]

Being able to move and cast is not so op nowadays if you consider the number of cc and interupts available on every comp.Add the extra slow you put on yourself on par with enemy's slows and enchanced mobility and you cant avoid anyone simply walking on you.

In general other caster classes have a big variaty of spells to pinch their enemies down, slow them and or kite them that i would gladly trade for moving casts

That post you quoted was just plain sarcasm.

[Tya]

Moving while casting might not be OP, but it certainly feels dumb.

[pitakos]

That post you quoted was just plain sarcasm.

EDIT : After reading his post again i get the sarcasm, but still many posts about KJC being OP have being made, i just wanted to make a point.

Still even if casting while moving feels stupid, imo the lack of lock's ability to kite or tank any melee,the ammount of cc/interupt, and the slows along with the penalty of KJC balance it at least for PvP.In PvE (which is offtopic)it is a big plus for locks against other casters but still the movement penalty can be of grave importance in most encounters were mobility matters

[Kirroth]

To be perfectly honest? Yes, I am seriously considering it.

Oh, my Warlock's going to stay my PvE main. But I've been having a miserable time in PvP ever since 5.0 hit. I only stuck with it because I've been doing PvP with my Warlock since I first started WoW back in late BC. Heck, I was even doing some BGs as I leveled, even though you didn't get XP or anything at that point. But I was bitching about the poor state of things to a friend today when he asked why I didn't try using one of my alts if it was that bad. I tried, but I couldn't couldn't come up with a retort.

So I'm pushing my Hunter to 90. It feels a bit like a betrayal, and it's a such a shame given how nice the next season's Warlock PvP set looks. But seriously, this shit is just no fun anymore.

[Deleted]

I'm no multi-glad (2k arena experience and 2.5k RBG experience) but I am definitely in the 'Warlocks are fucked' camp. the PvP metagame is focused around CC and burst, neither of which we are particularly adept at with the removal of blood fear. casting a spell has never been tougher which is why high rated locks are sticking with Demonology, but next season will be incredibly tough with the melee buffs. add Monks, Rogues and Unholy DKs to the incredibly strong melee representation and it's going to be a really horrible season for us. I'm playing my Mage this season most likely.

[Staalie]

Naysayers.... If you played locks for a long time you know that it is a class which has to adapt to changes. For me this has made a lock my favorite class. It's much more fun to play and underdog imo.

And as for "nerfs" in 5.2, which ones would that be?

The 10% sta buff?
the 10% dmg reduction buff?
The Sacrificial pact buff?
The baselining of 4 shards/embers freeing up a glyph slot?
Counterspell blanket silence staying in the game?

And as for Blood Fear; this is turning out to be quite a nice talent (horror, so no dr with fear, and only 5% life)
As for GoSac: this is still a viable talent if you want to run around (partially) petless

Please enlighten me how hard the nerf bat will completely destroy lock viability? please.

[Deleted]

Please enlighten me how hard the nerf bat will completely destroy lock viability? please.

it's not so much nerfs to locks, as it is buffs to other classes. did you see Rogue patch notes? Monk? DK? Hunter/Feral/Warrior teams are already dominant, especially over Warlocks. sure our buffs are nice, but it seems this will be a melee dominated season. personally I may try Mastery heavy Affliction and play Shadowcleave, or Haste heavy Destro and play MLS, but I don't expect it to be a good season.

[Nicola]

Naysayers.... If you played locks for a long time you know that it is a class which has to adapt to changes. For me this has made a lock my favorite class. It's much more fun to play and underdog imo.

And as for "nerfs" in 5.2, which ones would that be?

The 10% sta buff?
the 10% dmg reduction buff?
The Sacrificial pact buff?
The baselining of 4 shards/embers freeing up a glyph slot?
Counterspell blanket silence staying in the game?

And as for Blood Fear; this is turning out to be quite a nice talent (horror, so no dr with fear, and only 5% life)
As for GoSac: this is still a viable talent if you want to run around (partially) petless

Please enlighten me how hard the nerf bat will completely destroy lock viability? please.

-The 10% sta buff is already provided when playing with a spriest, it get's instantly dispelled anyway.
-Melee gets damage buffed and we lose the armor from it, making it less then 10% reduction....
-Sacrificial pact is not a buff, it's just less likely your pet will get instantly destroyed after using it.
-Gets replaced by another mandatory glyph to fix something they broke with battle fatigue

Blood fear is still random and still limited to melee only. While it being buffed to a horror is nice, the new blood fear in combination with normal fear is not even close to how good the current blood fear is, it's still a massive nerf to our cc, and indirectly, to our damage.

And now a really important line
A class' viability not only depends on the class itself, but also on how viable other classes are.

[Staalie]

Seriously, other classes getting buffs doesn't mean Locks are no longer playable. The way i see it is that through sticking with a class you learn all ins and outs and can start having real fun in trying out things (instead of playing cookiecutter on the fotm).

And as for Rogues, they have been our counter all throughout WoW; only this season have they seriously sucked ass. so them being more powerful next season is only reasonable (plus blind cooldown has increased to two mins/prep no longer resets CoS).
Monks will hurt, that's fine.
Warriors will hurt (less), but they always have
Hunters will hurt less (i think??)
Mages will remain annoying
Shadowpriests are getting nerfed
Dps shammies will never get love
Pallies are kite-a-licious
Dks are counterable since we have our blanket silence back (thank god)
Droods will hurt some more, but are controllable
Locks will be tough as they have 10% more Sta and 10% less dmg taken, they have blanket silence, fear and blood fear not sharing dr's or cd's, still have that awesome sacpac shield and... oh wait, that's us

it'll be fine... all fotm reroller please f* off to play monks and rogues, real locks are locks 4 life

[Deleted]

Seriously, other classes getting buffs doesn't mean Locks are no longer playable. The way i see it is that through sticking with a class you learn all ins and outs and can start having real fun in trying out things (instead of playing cookiecutter on the fotm).

And as for Rogues, they have been our counter all throughout WoW; only this season have they seriously sucked ass. so them being more powerful next season is only reasonable (plus blind cooldown has increased to two mins/prep no longer resets CoS).
Monks will hurt, that's fine.
Warriors will hurt (less), but they always have
Hunters will hurt less (i think??)
Mages will remain annoying
Shadowpriests are getting nerfed
Dps shammies will never get love
Pallies are kite-a-licious
Dks are counterable since we have our blanket silence back (thank god)
Droods will hurt some more, but are controllable
Locks will be tough as they have 10% more Sta and 10% less dmg taken, they have blanket silence, fear and blood fear not sharing dr's or cd's, still have that awesome sacpac shield and... oh wait, that's us

it'll be fine... all fotm reroller please f* off to play monks and rogues, real locks are locks 4 life

no offense but you've not actually responded to either of the two posts that followed yours, and it doesn't sound like you've really done any 'serious' high rated PvP which this thread is about.

[Staalie]

-The 10% sta buff is already provided when playing with a spriest, it get's instantly dispelled anyway.

Not always playing with a SP+not all comps can dispel+you can reapply ur buff whenever (it's 10% sp and 10% sta, i mean it's worth the gcd whenever)

-Melee gets damage buffed and we lose the armor from it, making it less then 10% reduction....

But we gain 10% dmg reduction from ALL sources (casters as well) so this would mean an actual buff in dmg received. Plus keeping CoWeakness up on melee is always a good idea.

-Sacrificial pact is not a buff, it's just less likely your pet will get instantly destroyed after using it.

So it costs your pet less health, giving him more survivability... tell me how this is not a buff.

-Gets replaced by another mandatory glyph to fix something they broke with battle fatigue

Glyphs are only mandatory if you play cookiecutter. Which glyph(s) are you referring to? Ember Tap? Drain Life?

Blood fear is still random and still limited to melee only. While it being buffed to a horror is nice, the new blood fear in combination with normal fear is not even close to how good the current blood fear is, it's still a massive nerf to our cc, and indirectly, to our damage.

Blood Fear needed a nerf, it was built as a defensive ability but was solely used offensively. It was out of place in a pvp environment and a crutch for many players.

And now a really important line
A class' viability not only depends on the class itself, but also on how viable other classes are.

Even though I made a very short post right after you posted this(see the one below your) which is kind of laughing off the changes to other classes, you are right up till some point. But there's two sides to every coin; you will be playing together with some of these classes and synergies are still there to be discovered


And as for squidbear
i'm running rbgs @ 2k. which doesn't mean i'm an expert. But i'm a long time lock addict and believe that the class has always been viable even if it's representation is low. I rather not follow the crowd or the elitists. I rather play my own game and enjoy my favorite class

[sugarfree]

To be honest, there's not "enough" gamebreaking changes in the next patch to warrant the "sky is falling" mantra. They just need to lay off KJC and I will be okay.

Affliction got some buffs, I didnt expect it, but it's welcome. Demo may not have the OP burst it used to have but still very viable. Destro is also viable in some comps and in BG's.

My only real irk is that whole Blood Fear tier with Burning Rush and Unbound Will. I just think the health costs from Burning Rush and Unbound Will need to go down because they are WAY TOO MUCH and does not warrant anything that good.

Adjust Unbound Will down to 10% off and Burning Rush by another 1% and that tier would become solid.

[Staalie]

To be honest, there's not "enough" gamebreaking changes in the next patch to warrant the "sky is falling" mantra. They just need to lay off KJC and I will be okay.

thank you...

[Deleted]

Not always playing with a SP+not all comps can dispel+you can reapply ur buff whenever (it's 10% sp and 10% sta, i mean it's worth the gcd whenever)

But we gain 10% dmg reduction from ALL sources (casters as well) so this would mean an actual buff in dmg received. Plus keeping CoWeakness up on melee is always a good idea.

So it costs your pet less health, giving him more survivability... tell me how this is not a buff.

Glyphs are only mandatory if you play cookiecutter. Which glyph(s) are you referring to? Ember Tap? Drain Life?


Blood Fear needed a nerf, it was built as a defensive ability but was solely used offensively. It was out of place in a pvp environment and a crutch for many players.


Even though I made a very short post right after you posted this(see the one below your) which is kind of laughing off the changes to other classes, you are right up till some point. But there's two sides to every coin; you will be playing together with some of these classes and synergies are still there to be discovered


And as for squidbear
i'm running rbgs @ 2k. which doesn't mean i'm an expert. But i'm a long time lock addict and believe that the class has always been viable even if it's representation is low. I rather not follow the crowd or the elitists. I rather play my own game and enjoy my favorite class

well of course every class is viable in the hands of the right player, and mid-level PvP is fine for 5.1/5.2 Warlocks because there's always room to 'outskill' the opposition. unfortunately there is a point where imbalance becomes ridiculous, where you need to put in much more time, effort and skill just to maintain the same rating as the FoTM classes in unskilled hands. example: final season of Cata I played Shadowplay with a Resto Druid and we struggled; joined a much lower skilled RLS and went 17-0 at 2k.

if you're aiming for high ratings next season, you are making it way, way harder on yourself by playing a Warlock. not impossible, but way harder than it needs to be. if you're a Warlock for life (I will always have this as my main) then that's cool, but you gotta concede that next season will be a struggle for us.

[Staalie]

next season will be a struggle for us.

Underdogs are more fun to play then three button fotms /agree?

[Deleted]

Underdogs are more fun to play then three button fotms /agree?

Depends entirely on how far under they are.

Warlocks have, historically, required more skill and effort to play in pve - that doesn't mean many people liked playing them, they were capable of great / competetive output, but required twice the work of most other classes to do so.

It's fine having a class that's an underdog and requires a bit more effort to pull out a win.
It's not fine when they're an underdog to the degree that you're actively a burden on your partners.

Are warlocks completely unplayable? No, ofcourse not.

Is it undeniable that we're one of, if not the worst class in pvp right now? I'd argue so, don't go tossing around rubbish like " I rather not follow the crowd or the elitists. I rather play my own game and enjoy my favorite class", because the problem with the class being poor in pvp has nothing to do with elitism or FOTM, it's due to it being in a pretty sorry state - you can continue playing your warlock and enjoy it, but that doesn't mean everyone else needs to be satisfied with the state of things. If you can enjoy the class still, fantastic - but some people aren't and would like to start again.

[Nicola]

Not always playing with a SP+not all comps can dispel+you can reapply ur buff whenever (it's 10% sp and 10% sta, i mean it's worth the gcd

Pretty much every comp can dispel, and it's easier to dispel then to reapply constantly. Many classes can dispel it without really trying to dispel it, not losing any pressure. On the other hand, wasting time on rebuffing constantly means you lose a lot of pressure.

So it costs your pet less health, giving him more survivability... tell me how this is not a buff.

It just reduces the chance your pet gets instagibbed after using it, which shouldn't happen with proper communication. It's a buff, but it improves close to nothing, it like saying: your shadowbolt now does 0.2% more damage. It's a buff, but noone cares about it.

Glyphs are only mandatory if you play cookiecutter. Which glyph(s) are you referring to? Ember Tap? Drain Life?

Embertap for destruction, siphon life for affliction...
And not playing with a cookiecutter build means you are gimping yourself. There's a reason why they exists, because they are proven to be a lot better then the rest.

Blood Fear needed a nerf, it was built as a defensive ability but was solely used offensively. It was out of place in a pvp environment and a crutch for many players.

Did I say it didn't? I've said at least a 100 times it needed a nerf, you're not understanding the point. Randomness is bad for PvP. Losing/winning games because of randomness instead of skill is really really lame.

And let's take a look at that other post, I'll just bold your stuff instead of splitting it all up...

Seriously, other classes getting buffs doesn't mean Locks are no longer playable. The way i see it is that through sticking with a class you learn all ins and outs and can start having real fun in trying out things (instead of playing cookiecutter on the fotm).

If you play competitive and your class is not viable, you're not going to have fun. If you can play your class to 95% and another guy with a diff class plays his class on just 60% and can beat you with relative ease, then there is no fun. Right now that is a case with warrior vs warlock for example.

And as for Rogues, they have been our counter all throughout WoW; only this season have they seriously sucked ass. so them being more powerful next season is only reasonable (plus blind cooldown has increased to two mins/prep no longer resets CoS).

CoS cooldown is halved, they'll have it 7 times available every 5min, now they can use it 3 times every 5min. As a warlock, that change is going to suck hard.
And rogues are not going to be just more powerful, as it is right now on the ptr, rogues are very overpowered.

Monks will hurt, that's fine.

Monks are right now a big counterclass to warlocks already and they are getting massive buffs to "everything". If it wasn't because of monks are a rather weak class for arena right now, you'd have been even less viable right now.

Warriors will hurt (less), but they always have

Compared to now, they are actually going to hurt harder since they are getting their damage buffed. However, they'll be a bit squishier.

Hunters will hurt less (i think??)

Stays the same

Mages will remain annoying

They get their damage buffed though. RoF will no longer instantly activate, but for the rest, mages ain't changing a lot.

Shadowpriests are getting nerfed

Shadow is getting their hybrid healing slightly nerfed. Sustained damage buffed and a small nerf to survivability. They need a little nerf anyway.

Dps shammies will never get love

That's why both enhancement and elemental are getting decent buffs?

Pallies are kite-a-licious

And yet they can still hammer on you all day long because of freedom and their speed increases. Nonetheless, they are getting a really nice buff to their hybrid healing and a few other little buffs to make them more viable.

Dks are counterable since we have our blanket silence back (thank god)

Following that logic you counter everything that uses magic. Death knights are still a big counter to casters in general, and as far as I know, we warlocks, are casters. Not to mention they have the biggest counter to our gapmaking mechanics such as demonic leap and demonic circle: teleport

Droods will hurt some more, but are controllable

Since our cc is being nerfed so hard, we'll have to rely a lot more on our partners for controlling druids... Ferals will be less annoying though due the nerf to cyclone.

Locks will be tough as they have 10% more Sta and 10% less dmg taken, they have blanket silence, fear and blood fear not sharing dr's or cd's, still have that awesome sacpac shield and... oh wait, that's us

Right now we already have a blanket silence, we have blood fear that's a lot stronger then normal fear and blood horror combined, we already have sacrificial pact and with half of the comps we play we have access to 10% stam. And guess what, we are in the worst spot we've ever been since s1.

it'll be fine... all fotm reroller please f* off to play monks and rogues, real locks are locks 4 life

I really doubt there are any fotm rerollers left that currently play warlock seeing how bad we currently are.