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  1. #41
    I'd rather see something before it hits me tbh. It was possible to hit rogues in stealth but nowadays that seems impossible.

    I guess I don't mind if rogues were either CC or damage focused with good defense cooldowns, not both. In worst case scenario aka playing elemental shaman = 5 second silence into 8 second stun into another 5 second stun into a gouge into a 2.5 second silence into a 2.5 second stun into a 6 second stun all while doing good damage...meh.

    I think rogues need buffs but not preparation baseline AND low defense/escape cooldowns in addition to a teleport spell in addition to a ranged stealth teleport into addition to shuriken ranged auto attacks.....time will tell but it looks bleak for casters or hunters.
    Last edited by RaZDaZ; 2013-02-06 at 04:55 AM.

  2. #42

  3. #43
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeshak View Post
    Proof? Source? My personal experience begs to differ. The popularity of rogues at the last season of Cataclysm was insane.
    Dude ive played Rogue since forever as my main and trust me, weve been the least played class for years now.

    I dont doubt that at the end of Cata a high percentage of Rogues were at high end arena and also being played in most comps. But to try to make out this bullcrap that all of a sudden everyone created Rogues is just that, bullcrap. It never happened its a myth. What was happening is everyone who had a Rogue took advantage of their strength at that time. The Rogue population fell throughout all of Cataclysm so the facts prove the rerolling rogues was a myth.

    Unless ofc the rate of people quitting the class was more than those levelling up 'rerolling' rogues.

    Ive followed the Rogue population closely and its always been at the bottom, during Cata is started around 8% and ended cata around 6%. And has dropped further in MoP from 6% to just over 3% as it is now. Rogues have been shat on by Bllizzard since they were hated during TBC and their massive slide in population shows this. Blizzard basically threw us the legendary daggers to try to keep us interested in the class.

    Do u also remember the OP Blood DKs throughout Cata?

    Do u also remember the OP Restoshammy healing which dominated Arena through Cata?

    The unkillable Healadins in Cata?

    The massive OP Mages and Warriors at the start of Cata?

    Its funny how these huge issues (which were all over the forums) are so quickly forgotten, why do people only remember the end of Cata when Rogues were being complained about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeshak View Post
    EDIT: I also happen to remember a stat from Cataclysmic season (mainly because i was crying daily to nerf them): 70% of teams above 2.4k consisted of a rogue. I think it was RMP, RLS and one more combo i am forgetting.
    As i said, they were very well represented in arena. That doesnt change the fact they were even at that time the least played class within the whole game.
    Last edited by Endemonadia; 2013-02-06 at 08:25 PM.

  4. #44
    so the facts
    What facts? You haven't presented any!

    As i said, they were very well represented in arena. That doesnt change the fact they were even at that time the least played class within the whole game.
    The context of the topic and the whole sub-forum is about pvp. so is my reference. Are you denying the concept of fotm reroller? Ask any mmo-champion moderator how many topics the have encountered and probably locked when somebody asking either "which class is the best right now?" or "which class is going to dominate next patch?".

    to save you some time. from the first page in the pvp forums: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...or-PvP-classes
    Last edited by Kreeshak; 2013-02-06 at 07:46 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    The problem is warriors are not easy to kill like we were in cata and people are mad at that
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Brian may answer differently, but I would say mages are hard to counter for average players but easy for great players.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeshak View Post
    What facts? You haven't presented any!
    Sadly there are no websites which store the historical data, only ones showing current population stats. So ur gonna have to trust someone who has made a point of following the Rogue population for the past 6 years. My figures are correct and, as someone else has pointed out, Blizzard official sources have said the same.





    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeshak View Post
    The context of the topic and the whole sub-forum is about pvp. so is my reference. Are you denying the concept of fotm reroller? Ask any mmo-champion moderator how many topics the have encountered and probably locked when somebody asking either "which class is the best right now?" or "which class is going to dominate next patch?".

    to save you some time. from the first page in the pvp forums: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...or-PvP-classes
    And ive agreed with u that Rogues were highly represented in top end PvP.

    ur misunderstanding me, im not saying FoTM pvp classes dont exist. Im just pointing out the facts which were that Rogue population dropped from beginning to end of cata. like it or not less Rogues finished cata than started it.

    (im gonna see if i can find threads on the Rogue forums cos Rogues population crisis is a commonly discussed subject)

  6. #46
    The Lightbringer shise's Avatar
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    Wow, all BG's I enter I meet 5-7 rogues.. and i'm talking about AB ...

  7. #47
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    This page visually shows the demise of Rogues in Arena.

    Look at the graph called "Classes distribution history". At the end of cata Rogues were the 2nd highest represented class over 2.2k with around 15% overall. Look at nov 2012 and the release of MoP, they dropped to under 2% overall and have stabilised around 3% as of now.

    http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stat...0-0-0-0-0.html

  8. #48
    Brewmaster mitbrandir's Avatar
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    No i personally don't miss rogues. I hated getting random stunlock killed by some rogue, and then if they fail they just cloak vanish and run away because they couldn't win it through a stunlock
    When your enemies meet death , it is my face that shall greet them.
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitbrandir View Post
    No i personally don't miss rogues. I hated getting random stunlock killed by some rogue, and then if they fail they just cloak vanish and run away because they couldn't win it through a stunlock
    And tbh your opinion shows exactly how the Wow population think... u either love rogues or u hate them. And lets be honest the only people who love them are people who play Rogues. So we have 3-4% population right now, thats not many Rogue lovers out there lol

    At the end of the day it would probably be a good idea to remove rogues from the game cos there is so much hate against them they arent wanted.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    Sadly there are no websites which store the historical data, only ones showing current population stats. So ur gonna have to trust someone who has made a point of following the Rogue population for the past 6 years. My figures are correct and, as someone else has pointed out, Blizzard official sources have said the same.
    Correct. When the census sources during 4.3 showed that rogues had edged above locks, there was a QQ thread on the official forums. Unlike most, there was a blue post pointing out that locks were NOT the least played class (aka, the census site was incorrect- there were still fewer rogues).

    GC has referred to the spare state of rogue players several times in blog entries, forum posts, and more recently tweets.

    There is no room for debate: rogues are the least popular class globally.

    Now, at the tail end of cata, rogues were the second most represented class (like 13-15%), essentially tied with the third place class, and below the first (shaman). When people talk about "rogues being broken" that's the section of time they were referring to. It should be pointed out that warriors have had greater than 20% rep this season- warriors on live are far more powerful than rogues (or really shaman, the actual #1 class of 4.3) were at the end of Cata. Warriors, hunters, and near the very end DKs had 5-8% rep- very poor. Rogues were sub 1% in 5.1 and are only a couple percent now- over twice as terrible as warriors were back then.


    Rogue population is not really related to the fact that rogues are terrible right now, however. I would say that rogues have been in a good spot in pvp and pve for a decent number of seasons, yet their global pop is still trash. I've made real posts on this is the past, but my overall feeling is that if you want to change this, you need to do the following:

    1)- Rogue specs should be well differentiated in their pvp capabilities. When rogues were popular in the past, they had this- but many of these attempts didn't work in pvp, and were irrelevant in pve. Brief examples: bandit's guile is a pvp unfriendly mechanic with no pvp benefit except damage at high insight. Red insight should offer some manner of pvp advantage, or the entire thing should have some interaction with rogue defenses. Removing tricks like riposte and ghostly strike have really hurt rogue kit. On live, every rogue is a sub rogue in pvp- and if you picked combat or assassination, you are bad at being a sub rogue, with strange ramp up and maintenance mechanics.

    2)- Rogue specs should be well differentiated in their pve capabilities. Maintaining buffs should not be the playstyle of every trick here. Lots of small hits doesn't need to be the thing either. If one rogue spec could burst like enhance or ret without having the sustained of mutilate, that would be interesting.

    3)- Rogues working with autoattacks should be emphasized for any specs that will continue down that path. We are finally seeing that with shuriken throw in 5.2 and shadow blades in 5.0. I would have predicted shadow blades being MUCH better received than it has been- I think it's one of the coolest abilities I've seen in game.

    4)- Animations should be custom, and improved. Instead of coming up with a million different monk animations, they could have done this for rogues- and still can.

    5)- Bandit's Guile and Anticipation need UI elements. Bandit's Guile is particularly absurd because it's a core spec mechanic (like eclipse) metered by a buff with invisible stacks. Anticipation should be a second set of combo points (blue ones?) in the UI.

    6)- It should be more intuitive what to expect out of each rogue spec. Many players don't know that combat can stun for 8 seconds in pvp, for instance. If mages had an 8 second stun on ANY spec, everyone would know about it! But even with that, combat doesn't come close to offering such a stun on demand or with any manner of reliability. Mutilate has no passive defensives and its big trick- a finisher that ignores armor- doesn't really seem to translate to players being worried the same way, say, exorcism does.

    7)- In the portions of this game that are actually very common but don't seem to get as much work, such as questing, leveling, and dungeons:
    Rogues seem wildly weak in dungeons from level 10 to level 90. You have to get purples (and therefore not need dungeons) before anyone cares. Shroud of Concealment, while awesome, almost never results in saving any time- which is rather surprising, for such a damned cool move. Even my challenge mode groups have a hard time skipping trash with this move because someone always screws it up. Granted, it's fine if challenge modes are challenging, but it's sad to see no desire for this move (or other iconic rogue tricks, such as opening a door to skip a hallway full of trash) in dungeons. A rogue can queue dungeons from his creation until he is in full 463s and never have a chance to beat the tank in damage, no matter his spec or his gearing. Its only once the rogue raids for months that he is anything but a burden to the rest of the populace.



    I think (7) is actually the biggest deal, but no one wants to talk.

  11. #51
    Stood in the Fire Shibuya's Avatar
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    I've never seen so many rogues in BG's (low-lvl). I guess they're all preparing for 5.2

  12. #52
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    Rogue's are not a bad class. The people playing the rogues are just bad. A skilled rogue can do awesome in BGs and Arenas.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Buxton McGraff View Post
    Rogue's are not a bad class. The people playing the rogues are just bad. A skilled rogue can do awesome in BGs and Arenas.
    Statements like this:

    1)- Call all rogues reading this bad at the game, even ones that get 2200 in seasons where rogues have the representation that, say, enhance has this season.
    2)- Are guilty of very fallacious thinking. "A rogue beat me, therefore rogues are fine" Ask yourself what would have happened with that same player skill and gear on a warrior. Or just look at the numbers, where there are like 15 warriors for every rogue above 2200 (and this is down from around 30 for every one in 5.1). This isn't subject to warriors- mages, shadow priests, enhancement shaman, elemental shaman, feral druids, moonkins, DKs, all are at least two for every rogue in rep at real ratings, and many are like 5.
    3)- Are simply class hate.


    Rogues are not fine. The experience of a random in a BG once doesn't mean a goddamned thing. If you want to find out how much rogues suck, just open your eyes. There's hard data and plenty of subjective experience. Rogues need massive buffs.

    5.2 should be better for rogues.

  14. #54
    No I don't miss the end-cata stupid godmode rogues

    Which never died due to recuperate+drs, stupid burst along with legendary dagger and vial, when in danger vanished and reappeared with full health, blah blah.

    Rogues don't need buff. They scale immensely with gear so they will be really strong in 5.2 and will have godmode oneshotting again 5.4. Rogue bursts are threatening already, and extra buffs? No thanks

  15. #55
    "Do you miss rogues in BGs?"
    Nope.



    bla bla bla

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