Why is what Jaina's done okay but Sylvanas not?

[Skytotem]

Wow I was tired last night, I just realized how derpy the title of this thread reads.

---------- Post added 2013-02-11 at 01:20 PM ----------

actually. why hasn't she died? Her whole purpose after she regained her own will was to destroy Arthas for turning her into an banshee and using her to slaughter her own people. Job done. Isn't it time for the forsaken to be at peace?

She tried but went to 'hell' because she's evil, it's covered in her short story.

[Arganis]

No but seriously I'm gonna repost cause I must know who this "green jesus" Jaina supposedly tried to kill is?

Oh waaaaaait, could it t be Thrall? Wait, no that makes no sense.

[MechaMoose]

No but seriously I'm gonna repost cause I must know who this "green jesus" Jaina supposedly tried to kill is?

that would be Thrall

[Arganis]

that would be Thrall

I knew it. But wait she tried to kill him, when was this? It's news to me.

[Skytotem]

I knew it. But wait she tried to kill him, when was this? It's news to me.

Tides of War novel.

[Arganis]

Tides of War novel.

Oh... that would explain why I don't know. Anybody care to elaborate? Because I'd love to know how exactly Jaina tried to murder her ex BFF Mary Sue.

[Captnmexico21]

oughta have the both of em as bosses in SoO, pull in a new set of more level headed leaders

Yes! They can be in new raid as twin consorts with Thrall as last boss. We "heroes" will be assisting Aggra on her path of vengeance and kill the the two whores and Thrall the Betrayer II. After many nights of raid wipes we finally kill all 3 only to find out that Aggra has been possessed by the sha of despair and is now the FINAL Hardmode Boss!!! O.o

[Deleted]

Oh... that would explain why I don't know. Anybody care to elaborate? Because I'd love to know how exactly Jaina tried to murder her ex BFF Mary Sue.

Jaina wanted to attack Orgrimmar with the Focusing Iris, creating tidal waves. Thrall tried to stop her by holding those waves back and I think they fought. So she didn't deliberately want to kill him, but he might have died in the attempt to stop her.

[Darkenedfist]

Oh... that would explain why I don't know. Anybody care to elaborate? Because I'd love to know how exactly Jaina tried to murder her ex BFF Mary Sue.

Long story short Jaina took the focusing iris and tried to summon a tidal wave to drown Org, Thrall wasn't having it so they fought. It took a shirtless and sparkling Kalec to use his awesome sexiness to calm jaina down.

[Arganis]

Yes! They can be in new raid as twin consorts with Thrall as last boss. We "heroes" will be assisting Aggra on her path of vengeance and kill the the two whores and Thrall the Betrayer II. After many nights of raid wipes we finally kill all 3 only to find out that Aggra has been possessed by the sha of despair and is now the FINAL Hardmode Boss!!! O.o

*doom doom doom doom doom* I like it.

[Skytotem]

Oh... that would explain why I don't know. Anybody care to elaborate? Because I'd love to know how exactly Jaina tried to murder her ex BFF Mary Sue.

Jaina confronted Thrall prior to Theramoore's destruction about Garrosh and asked him to go back to being Warchief and end this whole war thing, Thrall said his job managing the elements was too important and that he was settling down with Aggra.

Then when Garrosh bombs Theramoore Jaina takes the focusing Iris to try and destroy Orgrimmar, Thrall tries to stop her and gets beaten down, Kalecgos manages to talk her down afterwards I think. I dunno, I haven't read the book.

http://www.wowpedia.org/Jaina_Proudmoore:_Tides_of_War

http://www.wowpedia.org/Thrall#Jaina...:_Tides_of_War

[Arganis]

Jaina wanted to attack Orgrimmar with the Focusing Iris, creating tidal waves. Thrall tried to stop her by holding those waves back and I think they fought. So she didn't deliberately want to kill him, but he might have died in the attempt to stop her.

Long story short Jaina took the focusing iris and tried to summon a tidal wave to drown Org, Thrall wasn't having it so they fought. It took a shirtless and sparkling Kalec to use his awesome sexiness to calm jaina down.

Thanky thanky, I especially like the part about shirtless Kalec. I wish she'd killed him then commited suicide, two birds with one... focusing iris of doom and destruction... and doom. Alright well, thanks again for your responses.

Jaina confronted Thrall prior to Theramoore's destruction about Garrosh and asked him to go back to being Warchief and end this whole war thing, Thrall said his job managing the elements was too important and that he was settling down with Aggra.

Then when Garrosh bombs Theramoore Jaina takes the focusing Iris to try and destroy Orgrimmar, Thrall tries to stop her and gets beaten down, Kalecgos manages to talk her down afterwards I think. I dunno, I haven't read the book.

http://www.wowpedia.org/Jaina_Proudmoore:_Tides_of_War

http://www.wowpedia.org/Thrall#Jaina...:_Tides_of_War

Thanks for the links.

[Aquamonkey]

Jaina wanted to attack Orgrimmar with the Focusing Iris, creating tidal waves. Thrall tried to stop her by holding those waves back and I think they fought. So she didn't deliberately want to kill him, but he might have died in the attempt to stop her.

100% she tried to kill him. Her first attack was a kill shot. It was a fierce battle.

She splayed her fingers and shoved her hand forward. Thrall flew backward, slammed hard by something lavenderwhite and glowing. His world went gray for a second and he landed on his back on the sand, gasping for breath. His whole body shuddered, but he forced himself to rise and direct his energy toward holding back the tidal wave.
The attack had not been intended to loosen his hold over the elements. The attack had been meant to kill.

He heard and felt the heat behind him. Lamenting the need, he redirected his imploring from the spirits of water to a spirit of fire. Thrall whirled, his hands up to do what he could to protect himself from the massive fireball hurtling toward him. The Spirit of Fire was angry and tortured, and for a moment Thrall feared it would not hear him in time. Defensively he threw up three orbs of water that circled swiftly around him and granted him energy. Thrall could not help but close his eyes as he braced for the searing heat and pain. At the last second, the huge swirling ball seemed to fracture, flames going off in all directions. Only a very few struck the shaman, but those singed his robes and flesh painfully.

“Release the wind, Thrall!” Jaina shouted. One hand still on the Focusing Iris, she drew back the other. Arcane energy whirled about her, tossing her robes and white hair. “Or I will kill you where you stand, and you will still fail!”
“Do so!” gasped Thrall. “Slay me! Turn your back on everything that once gave you integrity and compassion! For I will not permit this
wave to crash upon Orgrimmar as long as there is breath in my body!”
For an instant, it seemed to him that Jaina wavered in her determination. Then her face hardened.
“So be it,” she murmured, and gathered the energy in her hand.

---------- Post added 2013-02-11 at 12:56 PM ----------

In Catat alone, we have things like Gilneas, Southshore getting plagued, Stromgrad getting attacked and having its Prince raised in undeath, and having the Hordes own soldiers getting tortured and brainwashed, but thats all just the Forsaken.

Those raised by the Valkyr have the choice of whether to join the Forsaken, go off to do their own thing, or go back to their graves.

Now onto the Sunreavers. Everyone likes to say the whole of the Sunreavers can't be blamed, and as an Ally enthusiasts, i will agree with this. However, Aethas can.

I wouldn't say Aethas can be blamed for the Bell, he can't keep tabs on every person in his group. But he should take responsibility. He can definitely be blamed for bumbling the situation with Jaina, leading to the Purge.

Then we have Aethas Sunreaver. At least one of his men (DO NOT deny this, the Sunreaver connection is what gave the Horde an easier time to steal the Focusing Iris). He is forgiven completely of this, and remarks in Jainas inauguration speech that she is a great person for doing so.

There is nothing to tie Sunreavers with the theft of the Focusing Iris. Kalec's investigation was inconclusive. There were spears, arrows, and signs of demonic and other magic. It was an unnamed, generic Horde raiding party.

The only thing Thalen did in Theramore was weaken one of the gates. Why? Who the fuck knows? It was entirely pointless since Garrosh was dropping the Mana Bomb to wipe out the whole city anyway.

Aethas' speech about Jaina had nothing to do with Thalen. It was about her attack on Orgrimmar.

Then when confronted by Jaina, for once again letting his people committ acts of treason under his watch, and his answer is a smug, I did nothing. This guy, who has little to no control over his own people, constantly refuses to take any responsibilty for the Sunreavers actions. Thrall, on seeing what the RAS was doing in Undercity, deployed Kor'Kron to watch over them. Aethas should have had similar watchmen put in place after Theramore, or at least have made some effort to attempt to stop this from happening again.

What lack of control? 2 incidents of betrayal among the hundreds of Sunreavers loyal to Dalaran. What constant refusal to take responsibility? He took responsibility for Thalen. There's no indication that Aethas even knew about Fanlyr since they never meet during the 5.1 questline.

Why didn't they place any blame on Rhonin for Thalen? When Rhonin sees Thalen's treachery he says, "I can’t believe it. I personally vouched for him to come." (ToW)

But he didn't. This complete inaction on his people, who knowingly betrayed their organization (Thalen and the others, despite secretly working for Garrosh, represented the Sunreavers), during a time of war, completely justifies Jainas action to expel the Sunreavers after yet another betrayal, where Aethas once again says, 'but it wasnt me!'

So tell me Horde, when will the whole be blamed for the actions of a few pieces.

What inaction? Aethas took responsibility for Thalen: “There have been human traitors, and high elf, and gnome, and
orc,” said Aethas calmly. “I will do what I can to atone for the treachery of Songweaver.” (ToW)

He did however bumble the Bell situation with Jaina. Not that she would have listened to reason anyway.

Dalaran can't be at war, they are a neutral kingdom. If they are at war, they've already joined on the side of the Alliance before any of the spies did anything.

[Sett]

When Jaina starts comparing everyone to being 'arrows in her quiver', I'd then start to worry about whether or not she's crossed the deep end. She's turned to being fiercely passionate for the Alliance. It rubs people off the wrong way but it's basically giving what a lot of players have wanted: Horde vs Alliance content. No neutral grounds being a main focus.

[Blufossa]

Too many fanboys in love with Sylvannas to have anything bad happen to her or the forsaken, at least permanently.

This, and Blizzard's partial love to their silly "masses".

In all honesty I'd love to see Sylvannas dead, and Jaina on par with the Warchief and King. We need more awesome stuff in WoW.

Warhammer Online had stuff like this, I miss that game... Stupid company and their drama!

[SherbertLand]

I keep hearing people call Jaina stupid evil or crazy and it kind of leaves me boggled.

I mean she did had a pretty natural reaction to her city and people being blown up and basically having the last few years of her life mean -nothing- because despite all the attempts for peace she made over the years, and then after Aethas say 'welp that'll never happen again!' she has sunreavers abuse dalarans neutrality -again- to steal the divine bell even after he'd sworn up and down he'd have a better handle on them, it made him look pretty complacent and callous, so while the purge was -harsh- it was hardly unjustified imo.

Almost destroying Orgrimmar is a pretty neutral reaction to you? What?

[Sky High]

could be horde fandom but i personally don't hear a whole lot of praise for what Silvanis has done. and this is Silvanis we are talking about here, being "bad" is par for the course for her. so any bad thing she does we all go "oh that's Silvanis being herself", to have Jaina snap and almost wipe out a city, and then be given a position of power at the behest of those she would later call traitors and attempt to kill is a left turn, AKA very uncharacteristic of her.

[bohapjut]

Yes! They can be in new raid as twin consorts with Thrall as last boss. We "heroes" will be assisting Aggra on her path of vengeance and kill the the two whores and Thrall the Betrayer II. After many nights of raid wipes we finally kill all 3 only to find out that Aggra has been possessed by the sha of despair and is now the FINAL Hardmode Boss!!! O.o

Brilliant! You're hired!

[Sett]

They try to explain in books that teleporting isn't really that easy, both in and out of game. The fact Jaina can teleport more than just herself and do it more than once a day is another tribute for being a skilled mage.

[Haven]

Stormwind is already full of such self-righteous pricks.

Nah, I didn't mean self-righteous. I meant like Genn (before he went generic lawful good in Cataclysm), Kael'thas (before he went lol world domination), or a bit like Garrosh (in Cataclysm, before lol world domination) or Sylvanas. Damn, they slaughtered every promising character. Thank God we at least have Sylvanas...