Why are women so afraid

[Reeve]

and men who can not get down the 'im being causal checking out everything you own' should...well own a pair.

I always got the sense from talking to my female friends that they don't mind a quick glance, and even find it flattering. It's the guys that stare or leer that bother them. Often when I check a girl out and she catches me, she smiles at me. I guess you'd never see that happen though, if you never look at the girl's face.

[darenyon]

Nobody said that though.

methinks they protest too much.

[Cattaclysmic]

and men who can not get down the 'im being causal checking out everything you own' should...well own a pair.

We cant win... can we?

In my experience girls tend to make the distinction between what is creepy and what is cool from how good looking the person who looks is.

---------- Post added 2013-02-11 at 10:12 PM ----------

I always got the sense from talking to my female friends that they don't mind a quick glance, and even find it flattering. It's the guys that stare or leer that bother them. Often when I check a girl out and she catches me, she smiles at me. I guess you'd never see that happen though, if you never look at the girl's face.

Girls have faces!?

:P

[Gandrake]

Sounds like you have an incredible case of being bitter about being put in the "friend zone" if it exists...

well, it's mostly referenced as "i'm too much of a pussy to get a girl", but when you look at your ultimate goal with a female and it's to get in her pants, friend zoning is very real. It means that you will never, ever hit that. and if you do, all the years of tormenting yourself over the wait wouldn't be worth it.

Some guys have trouble with rejection, and understanding that a woman does not feel very attractive when she is with a guy that believes she is the only woman he could ever be with. She enjoys entertaining the idea that he could be with other women, but instead chooses to be with her. I mean, that kind of relationship is kind of like beating a dead horse. Maybe some people like poking and brutalizing horse corpses, but I think many of us could agree it would be a lot more exciting if they shot a horse in the ass with a nailgun and got kicked.

essentially, "friendzone" is another way to say that "the pursuit of gobbling her meatcurtains is now a waste of time and effort" in it's truest form

though, i think that is largely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

again thats not what I am saying. im not saying raping me at all- but that look? Its often creepy. We can see you- is what I am trying to get across.

What do you do if a guy winks at you, in a real eerie, but charming kind of Anthony Hopkins Hannibal Lecter kind of way?

[Endus]

and men who can not get down the 'im being causal checking out everything you own' should...well own a pair.

To be fair, if you're wearing a low-cut top and a short skirt, you're basically saying "check out my bazongas and legs". If you don't want men to check them out, don't dress to attract that kind of attention.

Some women will say they dress that way to "feel pretty", for their self-esteem. But it's the same thing. You feel pretty for the same reasons men look. You feel attractive, like you're desirable. Men are looking because they see you as desirable. You can't have one without the other.

That doesn't mean men should be leering or staring, or making catcalls or unwarranted comments, nor is dressing in any way an invitation of any kind. And sure, some men will leer, even if you're wearing a sweater and loose jeans. But I've seen a lot of women get offended when they were clearly asking for attention with how they were dressed. Their offense was because they advertised to everyone, when they wanted a more select reaction. That's not the men's fault.

[Sky High Shark]

We cant win... can we?

In my experience girls tend to make the distinction between what is creepy and what is cool from how good looking the person who looks is.[

indeed, if you aren't: cute, hot, or appealing in their book they will take it as a creep alert.

[Osyrus]

I always got the sense from talking to my female friends that they don't mind a quick glance, and even find it flattering. It's the guys that stare or leer that bother them. Often when I check a girl out and she catches me, she smiles at me.

Yes, certain circumstances I would agree. It is flattering- but its the creepy stares and winks..and Ill buy that for you...its just too much.

I understand I am being contradictory but you only talked to me because of my body and my face not because of the words that I spoke. It being the initial reason you talked to me " wow she is really pretty' okay okay. Some gents game is baaaddd and they come off very creepy. Why would I want to talk to you if you offer to buy me things- you dont know me...

I might be misunderstood, but.

[Iceleaf]

I do understand some of the concerns* but when this type of stuff happens
http://i.imgur.com/5ZiA3.png
I'm just going "yeah ok then. Thats too much now."

*Since I live in country where stuff like this is somewhat rare and its bit more safer(?) to walk around at night I cannot say I'm really expert on stuff like this.


I just cant understand whole "All white males contribute to rape-culture because they are white and males" argument (which btw is either extreme trolling because there are never really facts about this subject other than "fancy image with text").
Yeah some advertisers, movie makers or law-makers are "white and male" but does it mean I'm supporting them and I should be penalized until this changes?

Thats really how I think, but I'm going to be interested on possible replies and knowledge on the issues. It just feels like poking beehive every time

[Osyrus]

To be fair, if you're wearing a low-cut top and a short skirt, you're basically saying "check out my bazongas and legs". If you don't want men to check them out, don't dress to attract that kind of attention.

Some women will say they dress that way to "feel pretty", for their self-esteem. But it's the same thing. You feel pretty for the same reasons men look. You feel attractive, like you're desirable. Men are looking because they see you as desirable. You can't have one without the other.

That doesn't mean men should be leering or staring, or making catcalls or unwarranted comments, nor is dressing in any way an invitation of any kind. And sure, some men will leer, even if you're wearing a sweater and loose jeans. But I've seen a lot of women get offended when they were clearly asking for attention with how they were dressed. Their offense was because they advertised to everyone, when they wanted a more select reaction. That's not the men's fault.

I agree completely. If you are showing off your goods expect to get the attention you are asking for.

Edit: now not all woman who dress like this are asking for attention. This is more of a personal statement for me. If a woman dresses provocatively she should understand that she will increase her desirability with her male counter part- possibly.

[Jevlin]

I think this fear of strangers, especially of men is hardwired into women's heads. Back before the civilized era it was almost a certainty that you'd get involuntary sex if you weren't protected by a strong alpha male or in a large group of other females. Whether we like it or not, most primates(which we are apart of) are rapists by nature. This doesn't mean ALL men go out there and rape at any given chance they get. There is no need for that anymore. Finding and impressing a partner is fairly easy for us nowadays. We have a good female to male ratio and designated places were you are guaranteed to find a partner(Clubs,pub etc). The need for rape doesn't exist anymore.

Rape is still an activity our species like to do though. It shows dominance over the victim, which can be a turn on for certain individuals. People in the non-civilized world still use rape on both men and women to show/claim dominance within a group. Why? Because it's an effective tool to make sure people fear and obey you. So, yes. Women have good reason to be cautious around men when walking alone at night. If you as a man want to help women out when meeting them at dark nights, walk to the other side of the street and be in clear view all the time. It will be most appreciated by all women.

Also, never EVER walk behind a women at a pace that is faster than her's during later hours. I learnt this the hard way! Just trust me on this one

[Sky High Shark]

That doesn't mean men should be leering or staring, or making catcalls or unwarranted comments, nor is dressing in any way an invitation of any kind. And sure, some men will leer, even if you're wearing a sweater and loose jeans. But I've seen a lot of women get offended when they were clearly asking for attention with how they were dressed. Their offense was because they advertised to everyone, when they wanted a more select reaction. That's not the men's fault.

exactly, you can't be putting it out there and expect "the ones" you want to draw attention too to be the only ones, its just plain foolish.

[Endus]

Yes, certain circumstances I would agree. It is flattering- but its the creepy stares and winks..and Ill buy that for you...its just too much.

I understand I am being contradictory but you only talked to me because of my body and my face not because of the words that I spoke. It being the initial reason you talked to me " wow she is really pretty' okay okay. Some gents game is baaaddd and they come off very creepy. Why would I want to talk to you if you offer to buy me things- you dont know me...

I might be misunderstood, but.

Nah. Creepy stares and winks and such, that's crossing a line. I'm just talking about appreciative glances. Some women get offended by even that, and I'm like "you're wearing a plunging neckline. If you don't want guys to check out your cleavage, don't accentuate it."

There's plenty of creeps out there. I'm not denying that. Those same creeps are usually "nice guys", which is a shorthand for "misogynist bastard who thinks he's owed a woman because of how 'nice' he is, but is too passive-aggressive to be a jerk about it and actually get one through faking self-confidence."

[Osyrus]

Nah. Creepy stares and winks and such, that's crossing a line. I'm just talking about appreciative glances. Some women get offended by even that, and I'm like "you're wearing a plunging neckline. If you don't want guys to check out your cleavage, don't accentuate it."

There's plenty of creeps out there. I'm not denying that. Those same creeps are usually "nice guys", which is a shorthand for "misogynist bastard who thinks he's owed a woman because of how 'nice' he is, but is too passive-aggressive to be a jerk about it and actually get one through faking self-confidence."

Yes and when you say you dont want to see one of these male they have an epic meltdown....lol.

Seriously dude was well into his 30s - far to old to still hold the nice guy bull.

[Masterpd85]

We cant win... can we?

In my experience girls tend to make the distinction between what is creepy and what is cool from how good looking the person who looks is.

No, we can't... because too many of our male counterparts have ruined the fun for the rest of us. Eye contact used to be innocent fun for both sexes to communicate with each other.

From research that I have read, girls make the distinction based on whether or not eye contact with a man is well received or not and how well the man responds back.

But like I said early, society has screwed us (males) up with making proper eye contact. And someone already proved it by saying "thats what sun glasses with reflective lenses are for." Which proves my point that we creepy.

[Sorrior]

I think that has more to do with the victim mentality that women are taught to believe in, rather than just simple fact that men can easily overpower us. Yes, you are stronger. Yes, you likely could tie us down and have your way with us... but we're not helpless. In my mental image of a strong man attacking me, I don't see myself being weak and unable to win. I see myself kicking, hitting, biting, screaming to attract attention, and generally making his life miserable in every possible way. I think my odds of attracting help with my screaming are better than his odds of getting me still and silent so he can do his thing. But that's what I've come to believe on my own, not what I was taught. I was taught that women are weaker than men, and that a strong man is to be seen either as a comfort and someone to protect me, or someone who could possibly hurt me. I consciously chose to put that aside and view them simply as people. He's got muscles, I have brains and guts. Fair fight, IMO.

See THIS is what i believe in. Women aren't some helpless little daisies ans more women need to realize this. I for one plan to try and raise any child i have to have the confidence to fight back and not just go all victim.

[Arlee]

Personally I assume everyone I don't know really really well is a potential psychopath. If you are a stranger than that means I don't know anything about you personally so why would I trust you? Even acquaintances could seem fine and then stab you in the face randomly for no apparent reason. This doesn't mean I don't go outside by myself or anything (honestly I don't feel comfortable trusting anyone else with my safety so alone or not alone is moot) and it doesn't mean I don't ever meet new people.

It means I am cautious. I am on guard. I pay attention to my surroundings and who is about. I don't like when people walk too closely to me and if I am walking past a window or a car I pay attention to the reflections to see what is going on around me where I can't see. I know I can never catch everything, but I'd rather do the things I can do than walk around not paying attention to anything at all. Personally I feel like people who do not do these things are naive. And it's not that I think everyone is actually a threat, but I don't have the information needed to tell if someone is a threat or not if I don't know them. So it's better to be cautious.

Oh also, idc if a stranger is male or female. They both get the same level of scrutiny from me.

[Sett]

you're talking as though rape is something that only happens to a woman. Lets say that two people a both drunk and stoned out of their minds and the next morning she cries rape... was it rape? I'd say no. Why shouldn't he cry rape? she took advantage of him. the truth is, is that women feel entitled to their victim status. Every day at work I see woman jockying for the title of being the greatest victim because they get the most help and support from the men.

Men can get raped. I didn't bring that up because it wasn't quite the direction towards what this thread had.

I'm highly aware that many women are stupid and use it as a scapegoat. And I am fully aware that many feel like they can latch on to playing the victim for sympathy/money/status. I've met a few of these women and have personally wanted them removed off the planet.

Doesn't matter if there is booze, drugs, getting high, emotions, whatever you want to use as an excuse. If the person didn't want sex, it's rape. For either party. No matter the age, the gender, the social difference, or the reason really. Even if the person is drugged and laying there unable to respond from nearly blacking out, someone taking advantage of that is still rape. Was it stupid for a person to put themselves into a bad spot for drinking/smoking/pill popping/dressing poorly? Yes. Should that stupidity or lack of caution damn them to rape? No. No matter how stupid one is or what bad choice rape shouldn't be thought as the okay reason for their punishment.

I am getting off track, I apologize. I do not mean to put words into your mouth claiming someone either that you're saying this or that.

[Arganis]

Except that it is. It isn't complicated. Date rape ONLY happens because a guy decides that getting off is worth abusing and forcing a woman to have sex with him. That's it. That's the whole thing. He doesn't see her as an equal, he sees her as a tool, a means to an end. Her resistance is an offense, which is why he forces her. That's the entire dynamic.

If you're claiming it's anything else, you're deluding yourself.

Aaaargh must not post.... No but seriously you're so black and white it hurts. As if there was only but one possible explanation for every rape in the world over. I mean considering the complexity of the human mind, that's just nuts, even by my standards. I'm sorry but rape doesn't HAVE to be about domination or misogyny. You can very well have a man commit rape for other reasons. How many times have we seen the immature and unexperienced boyfriend scenario, where some guy gets really close to getting laid and at the last minute gets canceled for some reason he doesn't understand, and doesn't want to understand, and so he decides to ignore his girlfriend's sudden rejection and it turns to "rape" but not the violent kind, the stupid immature kind where the guy's really just a sad tool. You know sometimes you just want to fuck and hearing "I'm not in the mood" or some other explanation is the biggest drag in the world, so you insist when you shouldn't. Most men won't go further then maybe insisting a little bit but some just don't care, so the girl feels like it's her fault maybe and lets him but it's really rape. Then there's the sociopath who thinks the only way to get laid is to get the girl drunk because his self esteem is just too low to think that unless she's wasted drunk then he won't get what he wants... In none of those scenarios do the men necessarily want to "dominate" anybody and they don't necessarily have this deep seeded hatred of all woman on the face of the Earth. Some people are just bad people and they do bad things, the end. Tired of this type of bullshit freudian reasoning in which every cigar just has to be a dick. Ugghggh g'dammit I did it again.... *sigh* Insomnia now that wont make you rape anybody but it'll certainly drive you batshit insane. Aaaaargh, ok back to "sleep".

And because I came back:

No thanks. You can stop playing the "HERPA DERP HURR HURR" game. You said you were done but you keep coming back.

Wtf you talking about pal? Some dude was being coy pages ago and thought he'd nailed me with my own posts and instead I nailed him. So I said Hurr Durr because the very point he was making was contradicted by the quotes he chose, BIG DEAL. To me anybody that reads some kind of social or political statement in the use of Hurr Durr and Herp Derp, especially on the internet, is the truly "mentally challenged" individual here. But I don't even know if that's the point you were trying to make, because most of your posts are so vague that to me they're simply incomprehensible.

Don't want me to come back? Well then don't quote me again.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Seems Arganis you can't resist posting even when you said you would stop.

[Reeve]

Wtf you talking about pal? Some dude was being coy pages ago and thought he'd nailed me with my own posts and instead I nailed him. So I said Hurr Durr because the very point he was making was contradicted by the quotes he chose, BIG DEAL. To me anybody that reads some kind of social or political statement in the use of Hurr Durr and Herp Derp, especially on the internet, is the truly "mentally challenged" individual here. But I don't even know if that's the point you were trying to make, because most of your posts are so vague that to me they're simply incomprehensible.

Don't want me to come back? Well then don't quote me again.

There was nothing social or political in my comment. I was just saying the use of HURR DURR is just petty and childish and doesn't make your point. It detracts from your argument instead of adding to it. I wasn't making a statement about political correctness. I was saying that if you want your points to be treated like more than playground taunting, don't use playground taunts to make your arguments.