Ohhh maaaa gaash Shadow priest REAL CD BURST OMG

[Deleted]

It will stack with Hero / BL now.

It's far from crap.

[Yetiman]

It will stack with Hero / BL now.

It's far from crap.

Unless the fix happens to bug out, and they take another 5 months of live (apart from MoP Beta) to figure it out. As you say Stiglet, the main reason nobody chooses PI has (supposedly) been corrected, and Twintop posted in another thread that in low movement-Patchwerk fights, PI + SW:I will net the most damage. However, I also read from someone that most fights in T15 are either movement heavy / multi-target. Haven't really looked at the new fights much, so I can't give my opinion on that matter.

Has anyone here done PTR boss testing to see our performance with talents?

[Paq]

I look forward to spell stealing it

[Deleted]

They should have fixed it a long time ago, but it wasn't exactly a "bug" to start with. When it was introduced (TBC?), BL and Hero were slightly different in how they worked and PI could be cast on any target. Blizzard had a rule that buffs that could be placed on other friendly targets wouldn't stack with each other, inluding Bloodlust (or perhaps was it just haste buffs?) and so PI would not stack with BL. Now that so much has changed and PI is a self cast only, that rule has out lived its purpose. Especially now that PI is our only option for true non-gimmicky burst.

I suspect now that Blizzard has realised it's oversight this "bug" won't reappear.

Twintop might be right about patchwerk style fights, but there may be other options for it in future fights where burst phases are needed. Remember, there is more to come than just 5.2....

[Yetiman]

Remember, there is more to come than just 5.2....

True, though it's hard to see it as such sometimes, when you add all the QQ going on in these forums , and how people (myself included), tend to focus more on immediate concerns/realities rather than the long-view.

Anyways, I'm interested in this, since I'm the ".5" in my 10-man's 2.5-healer setup, and I regularly switch between Disc and Shadow, depending on healing requirements of the encounter. It's just that sometimes I hate changing my talents and glyphs on a per-fight basis (not to mention reforges, though that might change with 5.2's new stat priorities/weights for disc, depending on playstyle -stacking mastery or going for haste/crit for atonement-).

Anyways, at the rate the changes have been coming and going, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw at least one, probably more, iterations on PVE damage for shadow (I think they're going to leave healing as is, and wait to see how new Disc mastery pans out).

[Volitar]

The change was reverted, its back to normal.

[DeiVias]

The stacking is still there but instead of 10% extra damage it's 5%.

[Magpai]

As far as I know, it DOESN'T STACK with BL, which is a big gripe from a large part of the community regarding the talent, since warlocks' haste bonus (can't remember if it's a CD or passive) does. However, if I remember correctly, Unholy DK's Unholy frenzy doesn't stack with BL either, but I'm not certain (used to play on my DK in Cata, haven't in MoP).

On a side note, I think that PI does stack with the new haste meta-gem, and so does BL. However, all 3 don't stack. Can anybody please certify this?

They said they were gonna fix it so that it would stack.

Anyway, 10% on a 17% uptime buff is not that big of a deal. It'll be maybe a 3% dps increase tops. If my shadow spec were anything but a questing spec, I'd be more excited about Shadowform's damage bonus being increased from 20% to 25%.

[Yetiman]

They said they were gonna fix it so that it would stack.

Anyway, 10% on a 17% uptime buff is not that big of a deal. It'll be maybe a 3% dps increase tops. If my shadow spec were anything but a questing spec, I'd be more excited about Shadowform's damage bonus being increased from 20% to 25%.

Yup, GC said they fixed it, since Yvaelle had been hounding him mercilessly about it (/thumbs up). On the other hand, they really just added the extra damage % to PI so we'd get the "Oh-my-Gad-We-Need-A-CD" that many priests were clamoring for, due to lack of burst potential in PVE, which hurt us on some encounters (Sha of Fear HC comes to mind, platforms currently mean GG for a spriest). It isn't meant as a real "Sustained DPS Tool", which the shadowform buff is. This way, our Tier 5 talents actually spread out to all 3 options instead of just ToF and DI. PI is probably now meant for fights which require a particular window with high burst damage requirements, ToF remains a multi-target cheese-fest, and DI also works for Single Target and council-type fights where additional targets have large pools of health.

Now we just have to analyze which talent performs better in each particular encounter of Throne of Thunder, something akin to this list on H2P's forum:
http://howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2662

[Deleted]

People seem to forget the main boost PI gives us, which is 20% haste. That is still a good dps boost and always has been regardless of 5% damage or not. It just seems to me that a lot of players underestimate that.

Stacking with BL will give us 100%-ish haste which quite frankly is a fuckton of burst dps. Plus 5% damage on top of that and your fiend / MB, what more do you need?

[Deleted]

BTW people saying "3% doesn't matter", if you do -3% on one spell and -3% on another. Hey you just lost 6% dps. That's just what happened with MB nerf and PI nerf, and the excuse is pvp.

[Deleted]

BTW people saying "3% doesn't matter", if you do -3% on one spell and -3% on another. Hey you just lost 6% dps. That's just what happened with MB nerf and PI nerf, and the excuse is pvp.

What? How does losing 3% in two spells mean you lose 6% overall?

[Deleted]

BTW people saying "3% doesn't matter", if you do -3% on one spell and -3% on another. Hey you just lost 6% dps. That's just what happened with MB nerf and PI nerf, and the excuse is pvp.

You say nerf but it's not really as we never had those things to lose. PI is still up on live and MB is the same as live so overall we're buffed.

[Arlee]

BTW people saying "3% doesn't matter", if you do -3% on one spell and -3% on another. Hey you just lost 6% dps. That's just what happened with MB nerf and PI nerf, and the excuse is pvp.

That's just not how it works at all. In the first place 3% nerf to the damage a spell does /= a 3% nerf in dps. And please remember they are always talking in terms of damage not dps.

Super easy example!
Say we do 1000 damage over 10 seconds which gives us 100 dps. Now, a 6% nerf to dps (which is what you are claiming) would bring our dps down to 94 dps.
100 * 0.06 = 6 and then 100-6=94

Now in this example lets pretend that our damage comes from two spells that each does 500 damage. If we nerf the damage of each spell by 3% their damage output is now 485.
500*0.03 = 15 and then 500-15= 485 damage

Two spells so 485*2=970

Doing 970 damage over 10 seconds gives us a dps of 97. So no, nerfing the damage two spells do by 3% does not equal to an over all 6% dps nerf.

[Deleted]

That's just not how it works at all. In the first place 3% nerf to the damage a spell does /= a 3% nerf in dps. And please remember they are always talking in terms of damage not dps.

Super easy example!
Say we do 1000 damage over 10 seconds which gives us 100 dps. Now, a 6% nerf to dps (which is what you are claiming) would bring our dps down to 94 dps.
100 * 0.06 = 6 and then 100-6=94

Now in this example lets pretend that our damage comes from two spells that each does 500 damage. If we nerf the damage of each spell by 3% their damage output is now 485.
500*0.03 = 15 and then 500-15= 485 damage

Two spells so 485*2=970

Doing 970 damage over 10 seconds gives us a dps of 97. So no, nerfing the damage two spells do by 3% does not equal to an over all 6% dps nerf.

Yes, exactly. Plus the fact that MB and PI do not equate to 100% of our damage. It's a much smaller fraction. We're still seeing at the very least a 5% buff to our overall dps because of Shadowform changes.

[Crudelitas]

We're still seeing at the very least a 5% buff to our overall dps because of Shadowform changes.

it's a 5% buff to our damage, not directly dps, as it was stated before. with the correct math done by the people that can manage to unlike me, it was a +4,17% buff to our dps as far as i can recall.

[jonish]

People seem to forget the main boost PI gives us, which is 20% haste. That is still a good dps boost and always has been regardless of 5% damage or not. It just seems to me that a lot of players underestimate that.

Stacking with BL will give us 100%-ish haste which quite frankly is a fuckton of burst dps. Plus 5% damage on top of that and your fiend / MB, what more do you need?

You say this like the math wasnt done on PI by a dozen different members of the community to make sure PI was/wasn't utter shit before the 5.2 increases. It isn't like people just disliked PI. PI was mathed out to be crap in almost any scenario when compared to DI and ToF in simcraft.

[Aica]

You say this like the math wasnt done on PI by a dozen different members of the community to make sure PI was/wasn't utter shit before the 5.2 increases. It isn't like people just disliked PI. PI was mathed out to be crap in almost any scenario when compared to DI and ToF in simcraft.

It was bad because PI didn't stack with Bloodlust. That's all.

[Kelesti]

It was bad because PI didn't stack with Bloodlust. That's all.

Which wasn't a bug, it was a relic from when it was castable on other targets and Blizzard just "forgot" to fix it when they updated the spell.

>.>

To be fair, it's also being held back by the fact that our resources aren't sped up under haste effects, this is only true for Priests and no one else. Because… I don't fucking know, and neither does Blizzard.

[Crudelitas]

I don't fucking know, and neither does Blizzard.

couldn't agree more. i can clearly remember GC's responses for certain questions. just like:

-we think shadow dps is fine
-we think shadow dps is fine
-a couple more of the above
-we didn't know where to nerf shadow, so we nerfed survivability, healing and burst
-we overdid it so here's a burst buff
-we nerfed shadow dps but here are some buffs
-that was a bug, fixed
-shadow burst is still too much so here's another pve nerf
-we think shadow dps is fine

seriously...