1. #1

    New to shadow; help with MF clipping

    Edit: Oh whoa, my post wigged out when I added a reply. Had to rewrite it.

    Anyway I know my questions seem kind of dumb, but any feedback is appreciated.

    New to shadow after being exclusively a healer since ToC. I'm not doing as much dps as I should be, so I looked up a bunch of sites to help me and some addons such as MFClip. I'm trying to understand my dps, but I still have one question.

    What is the proper way to MF clip?

    I know that you clip your MF before the last tick if you channel a consecutive Mindflay. But when is the proper time to break the channel to recast dots or MB? Do you wait until the time you normally would clip MF and then cast? Do you wait until after the closest tick of MF and then break it?

    Also, if the end of your MF channel is going to line up with the cd of MB or when you need to refresh your dots, do you finish the channel and then cast? Or do you clip MF where you normally would with a consecutive MF and then break the new channel?
    Last edited by Lumpriest; 2013-03-11 at 05:54 AM.

  2. #2
    Field Marshal
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    You can download an addon called Gnosis that will replace the default cast bar with a far better cast bar which shows mind flay ticks. You want to clip as close as you can to when the second last tick goes off

  3. #3
    the best macro in the universe When your MF channel is about done just begin spamming this macro and it won't interrupt your current MF channeling. It forces it to wait till its done. Take MF off ur UI, just use this macro. enjoy!

    /stopmacro [channeling]
    /cast Mind Flay



    can use for mind sear as well:

    /stopmacro [channeling]
    /cast Mind Sear
    Last edited by Vantricular; 2013-03-11 at 07:05 AM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Vantricular View Post
    the best macro in the universe When your MF channel is about done just begin spamming this macro and it won't interrupt your current MF channeling. It forces it to wait till its done. Take MF off ur UI, just use this macro. enjoy!

    /stopmacro [channeling]
    /cast Mind Flay



    can use for mind sear as well:

    /stopmacro [channeling]
    /cast Mind Sear
    This completely defeats the purpose of MF clipping. I highly recommend to NOT use this macro.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-11 at 03:48 AM ----------

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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Flowsion View Post
    You want to clip as close as you can to when the second last tick goes off
    Not completely necessary.

    Earlier is better, but as long as you recast between the two last ticks (adjusting for latency), you should be fine.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumpriest View Post
    What is the proper way to MF clip?

    I know that you clip your MF before the last tick if you channel a consecutive Mindflay. But when is the proper time to break the channel to recast dots or MB? Do you wait until the time you normally would clip MF and then cast? Do you wait until after the closest tick of MF and then break it?

    Also, if the end of your MF channel is going to line up with the cd of MB or when you need to refresh your dots, do you finish the channel and then cast? Or do you clip MF where you normally would with a consecutive MF and then break the new channel?
    To further clarify:
    If you clip the first mind flay after the second tick (normal mind flay ticks 3 times, with one coming as the channel expires) it will take the last tick that your clipping and add it onto the next mind flay channel which while keeping the same period between each tick. this results in the next cast having 4 ticks instead of three, all four of which occur with the same period between them as they would with 3 ticks. in this way, no ticks are lost and latency is defeated.

    You should clip MF if:
    You need to refresh a dot
    FDCL is about to fade
    You have DI
    Shadowfiend or Mind Bender come off CD
    Halo/Cascade/DS are off CD
    MB or SW are off CD
    You have three orbs and MB or SW will be off CD in less than a GCD

  7. #7
    Grunt sashjke's Avatar
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    One wise man said: "If you don't know how to clip MF, don't clip it".

    To add to previous post, i'd say recast MF when you have Insanity and DP is about 0,5 seconds to expire.

  8. #8
    Stood in the Fire espoire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vantricular View Post
    the best macro in the universe When your MF channel is about done just begin spamming this macro and it won't interrupt your current MF channeling. It forces it to wait till its done. Take MF off ur UI, just use this macro. enjoy!

    /stopmacro [channeling]
    /cast Mind Flay



    can use for mind sear as well:

    /stopmacro [channeling]
    /cast Mind Sear
    This is horrible and useless if you have significant latency. For people with a steady 20ms all the time, then it preforms far better than human reactions, but for people like me with 200-600 (variable) all the time, using a macro like this is like voluntarily taking a 10% haste penalty on Mind Flay.

    Edit: ...and I just realized, these macros don't even do what you would want; you'd want to prepend the /stopmacro onto any other spell that you would want to follow a Mind Flay but not interrupt it -- but not Mind Flay itself. So yeah. This is shit-tier advice. Do not follow. 0/5, would rage again.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-11 at 05:24 AM ----------

    ...now to answer the OP's question.

    Just clip it. Managing MF clipping properly takes a huge degree of concentration to maintain, particularly in the presence of things like haste procs, pushback from damage, being under hit cap, etc. This is focus that could be far better spent on aiming Halo properly, responding to procs promptly and dealing with fight mechanics. By your own admission, you're new to Shadow. Leave the <1% DPS micromanagement to the pros.

    So, yes, clip MF for subsequent MF casts. If you need to cast anything else, just cast it. Don't worry about MF's duration or next tick.

    Exception: Finish MF (Insanity) channels that you're extending beyond the end of DP, and try to start a fresh one <0.5sec before the end of DP.
    Last edited by espoire; 2013-03-11 at 10:31 AM.

  9. #9
    If in doubt, clip mind flay. You never want to clip mind flay on the first "tick" (since you'll still be on the gcd), you generally always want to clip mind flay on the second tick (if only for another mind flay) unless the complete channel is going to line up perfectly with a higher prio spell.

    Slightly on-topic, anyone who knows how to get gnosis to show the insanity ticks?:P

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
    Slightly on-topic, anyone who knows how to get gnosis to show the insanity ticks?:P
    Update it ;p?

  11. #11
    You can also just add a new spell in the configuration. Last time I checked, it wasn't in there by default. I guess it's added now, but it's pretty easy to add manually, too. Just make all the settings the same as Mind Flay.

  12. #12
    Could've sworn that I already updated it when 5.2 came out, but I might be wrong. Was incredibly easy to add manually though, thanks Mctriple.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
    Could've sworn that I already updated it when 5.2 came out, but I might be wrong. Was incredibly easy to add manually though, thanks Mctriple.
    Yep it did, but there was a second update to it a few days ago that made it so that the MFI ticks are shown

  14. #14
    Pit Lord
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    I use Quartz and recast mind flay just as it hits the last bar (tick)?

    Simple enough.
    Karuzo, mistweaver monk | Macphisto, discipline priest
    <Razzia>, US-Arthas | @Spotnick

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by espoire View Post
    Just clip it. Managing MF clipping properly takes a huge degree of concentration to maintain, particularly in the presence of things like haste procs, pushback from damage, being under hit cap, etc. This is focus that could be far better spent on aiming Halo properly, responding to procs promptly and dealing with fight mechanics. By your own admission, you're new to Shadow. Leave the <1% DPS micromanagement to the pros.

    So, yes, clip MF for subsequent MF casts. If you need to cast anything else, just cast it. Don't worry about MF's duration or next tick.

    Exception: Finish MF (Insanity) channels that you're extending beyond the end of DP, and try to start a fresh one <0.5sec before the end of DP.
    Thank you. This more answers the question I was asking, even if it wasn't very clear. I know how to clip MF, but I didn't know if it was necessary to wait for the next tick or not if you had to break your MF channels. So I guess I can just break the channel right when things come off cd and not have to worry so much about it.

    I'm aware of the /stopcast latency stuff which is exactly why I didn't make a macro for my priest or mage with it.

    I've been starting a fresh MF:I at the end of DP, as well.

    Also, thank you Xellis. :P

  16. #16
    just FYI the author of MFClip is the same as Gnosis. I believe Elvui cast bars have the tick marks as well.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
    If in doubt, clip mind flay. You never want to clip mind flay on the first "tick" (since you'll still be on the gcd), you generally always want to clip mind flay on the second tick (if only for another mind flay) unless the complete channel is going to line up perfectly with a higher prio spell.
    This works for me, all you really losing clipping MF is mana.

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