what do Americans think of "living the dream"

[Deleted]

Dear MMO'ers. First of I'd like to ask everyone to post constructively without nation bashing/flaming/trolling/etc. This is just my opinion and if you do/don't agree. Please let me know!

In school we were watching some documentaries like "The shockdoctrine" and about medical care from Michael Moore. These topics interest me a lot and I do believe that America isn't even close to living the dream like the saying goes.

First of I saw a lot of things that America does and after some research I came to the conclusion that 9/11 wasn't really caused by terrorists, more to give an excuse to start a war. Bush was a terrorist himself in my opinion.

Another thing is the medical care. I saw/listened to a broadcast between the president ( I think it was Nixon and some bosses from health insurance companies ). They were talking about maximizing their profit. Many politicians were also bribed by the CEO's from those companies. The head politician leading the new law (not sure how it is called) became the new CEO from one of the companies.

I'm sure there are many other things that America does to maximize their money and keeping the people brainwashed.

Thoughts about this?

[Pachycrocuta]

First off, don't listen to Michael Moore. He's an extreme nutjob as much as Rush Limbaugh is.

As for "living the dream"... I think only foreigners believe in the "American Dream" (foreigners as in non-American). And yeah, if you believe the insurance companies are there to help you instead of making a shit load of money from you, then I got ocean-front property in Idaho to sell you. And Big Business runs the country.

[Grakey]

Like Pachycrocuta said, Michael Moore is just as bad as Rush Limbaugh is. And if you believe that 9/11 was manufactured by the Bush administration, try something other than MSNBC. (And lol at Bush being a terrorist) As for health insurance, it is a business just like anything else in the world, and as such, the bottom is is all the counts. You can't blame them for that. As for CEOs bribing politicians, show me one modern civilized country that isn't run by corrupt politicians, because I don't think you could. America, like any other country in the world, has its advantages and disadvantages. You just need to weigh the good and the bad and make an informed decision.

[Kujako]

Depends on how you define the "dream". I started out on welfare, food-stamps, etc and now own my house and am in the top ~20% of wage earners. The issues are that I feel less financially secure in the "middle" class then I did when poor. It would take very little to ruin me financially and plunge me back into poverty. There has been (and continues to be) a steady degradation of the middle class. Which ultimately is good for no one.

[Roose]

First off, don't listen to anyone telling you not to listen to somebody else (irony, eh). Read and see all you can and make your own determinations. Sad thing is that the way classified info works is that we will never know exactly what happened in most cases for 30-50 years. We are finally seeing stuff come out from the 50's now.

America is extremely corrupt right now. Unfortunate consequence of becoming a superpower so fast.

The American Dream has become a tough task to accomplish. Housing is still affordable, but you can't get loans and the cost of living keeps sky rocketing. It is still there, but as soon as most feel that it is not we will see some shit pop off.

[Deleted]

First off, don't listen to Michael Moore. He's an extreme nutjob as much as Rush Limbaugh is.

As for "living the dream"... I think only foreigners believe in the "American Dream" (foreigners as in non-American). And yeah, if you believe the insurance companies are there to help you instead of making a shit load of money from you, then I got ocean-front property in Idaho to sell you. And Big Business runs the country.

His documentary received an oscar for best documentary and I find his pretty credible.

I agree that the health insurance is company like another. But letting an 8 year old kid die because the mother's health insurance doesn't cover it? That's just barbaric or going in extreme debts just to get to university? Why can't they just have social care like any other country?

[Deleted]

As for health insurance, it is a business just like anything else in the world, and as such, the bottom is is all the counts. You can't blame them for that.

Euhm, yes you can, health insurance is about people's health, not something to make profit of (ever heared of non-profit organisations?).

And 9/11 was a terrorist act, and gave a good excuse to start a war (about an oil-pipeline, not WMD's).

[Remilia]

As for health insurance, it is a business just like anything else in the world, and as such, the bottom is is all the counts. You can't blame them for that.

And this is bad. People's health shouldn't be played as a business.

As for CEOs bribing politicians, show me one modern civilized country that isn't run by corrupt politicians, because I don't think you could.

Is also bad, doesn't matter if all of em does it, it's still bad.

On-topic. The dream is dictated by the society you live in and as much as I love to think that 100% effort can make us 'reach this dream'. Reality slaps you in the face that there's more than one variable to this, the other variable being your surrounding, and a lot of times surrounding > you.

[petej0]

His documentary received an oscar for best documentary

So? That has no bearing on the actual facts. Moore has been known to lie and distort facts his documentaries to tell the story he wants to tell.

---------- Post added 2013-03-20 at 12:51 PM ----------

The American Dream is dead? Tell that to the millions who have crossed our borders illegally.

[Kujako]

The American Dream is dead? Tell that to the millions who have crossed our borders illegally.

Lots of them are going back, last I checked we where at a net zero immigration (legal or otherwise) from south o' the border.

[petej0]

Lots of them are going back, last I checked we where at a net zero immigration (legal or otherwise) from south o' the border.

Says who? The bouncer at the border?

[Kujako]

Says who? The bouncer at the border?

It's been widely reported by multipul sources. Based mostly on a Pew Research article.

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2012/04/2...-perhaps-less/

[blackyfrost]

the dream is an idea that died in the 50s

back then working hard made you comfortable in life. now working hard means you fucked up and you're making someone else a lot of money
it was inevitable, and it's better still than a lot of places, but it's not the 50s anymore

everything is priced assuming you'll need credit, which the economy thrives on, which means you can't actually afford a car, a house, etc

it sucks

[Daelak]

Says who? The bouncer at the border?

Says the border patrol......

[Roose]

Says who? The bouncer at the border?

Nah, there are these things could facts. You know, the thing that you claim Moore does not tell of. Personally, I question your fact checking abilities.

[petej0]

It's been widely reported by multipul sources. Based mostly on a Pew Research article.

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2012/04/2...-perhaps-less/

Nobody is tracking every single person sneaking across the border. If they were we would round them up, there is no true way of knowing how many are here, coming here and thus going back. These are just hypothesis based on arrest data, extrapolated numbers and assumptions based on economic conditions of the countries involved.

There is nobody standing on the border counting people coming and going over a fence.

[Kujako]

Nobody is tracking every single person sneaking across the border. If they were we would round them up, there is no true way of knowing how many are here, coming here and thus going back. These are just hypothesis based on arrest data, extrapolated numbers and assumptions based on economic conditions of the countries involved.

There is nobody standing on the border counting people coming and going over a fence.

Yea, guess we would be crazy to use the information we had rather then just assume everything we can observe is wrong...

[Wiyld]

/facepalm at schools showing kids Michael Moore as their introduction to current sociopolitical problems in the US.

Yeah, that's a GREAT way to avoid polarization of the next generation.

[Zangeiti]

Yes I totally agree that. We are not living the American dream like we use t or ever did. But we did also do some hora bile things in our time but almost every country did. But we can make these things up with the right president and the right time!

[petej0]

Nah, there are these things could facts. You know, the thing that you claim Moore does not tell of. Personally, I question your fact checking abilities.

Micheal Moore opening a bank account and getting a gun in Bowling for Columbine was staged. His whole move Roger & Me where he is trying to get an interview with GM CEO Roger Smith is a farce because he got his interview in fact two interviews one happened during the early stages of shooting the movie. He has been caught in numerous fact "stretching".