LFR Durumu

[Srg56]

8 stacks of determination...got him down to 45ish percent during beam of death/omfg i dont know what to do when this happens phase....and only 9 of us survived, burnt him down with 9 left.....ty determination... brb wiping on primordius

I haven't laughed this hard in weeks, thank you.

People just need to realize that when the eye beam starts they need to run to the side of the beam which isn't filling up with black smoke. Once you figure that out, he's very easy to kill.

But i still needed 1 stack on one kill, 3 on another and the latest one just few hours ago, 7 full stacks. That's my new personal record. I doubt i'll be seeing 8 anytime soon.

What annoyed me most about the encounter is that after 8 players carried the whole raid, one guy who failed in the first seconds after the beam was up said in chat "fucking blizzard". It's shocking to me, as an ex TBC & Wrath raider. This truly is a new era for gaming and i'm not blaming blizzard for implementing progressively easier pve encounters with each expac. WoW wouldn't have 9 milion players if the 2007 TBC game would of been launched in 2013.

[PuppetShowJustice]

So. Determination stops stacking at 10. Which, fittingly, destroys morale when it stops going up.

I don't honestly see what Determination does in this context. It boosts your numbers but the fight isn't numbers hard. It's mechanically hard for people; which no amount of +damage or healing is going to fix.

I guess the point of the buff is so that the few people who survive have the damage to make up for all of the fallen. But if the point is to more easily allow a small group of players to carry everyone else, that strikes me as terrible design.

I just did this fight on my Blood DK for 4 hours. My first co-tank didn't speak English and I couldn't get across that they needed to taunt at 5 stacks. My next co-tank did speak English but didn't care to taunt off me. I died at 9 stacks of the debuff, was brezzed, and resumed tanking because he either couldn't or would. This continued until he was vote kicked. My next co-tank somehow died on the way to the boss. I don't understand how since there isn't any trash. I guess he walked off the cliff near Ji-kun's lair. You can guess how well he played in the actual fight.

No amount of explaining helped people clear the colored beams. That's all there is to say about it. It only takes one idiot getting flagged for the red or blue and the whole mechanic is screwed. The people who had the sense to figure it out also had the sense to not stick around. Leading to an endless cycle of people leaving and new people not understanding.

The maze I ended up putting a diamond mark on my head and telling people to follow me so that I could do the mechanic for them. I survived every maze phase, but that didn't stop people from screaming at me and blaming me for their own deaths. Clearly it was my fault they ran ahead or fell behind into the death ray.

"You confused me."
"It looked like you were going right and then you went left."
"What killed me?"
"kick tank mark someone else"

My better half came home and made dinner over the course of all this. I finally called it quits. It's been another several hours now but I'm sure they're still there, perpetually wiping at 10 Determination stacks from now until the end of time.

I'll never queue for that particular LFR again.

[Otimus]

I happened to come in as RL.
We wiped once. Then I just explained everything kiddie tactic mode for 10mins. Weirdly everyone listened and didnt cry "gogogogo!".
After that we killed him directly with like 3 dead people. Just make sure you have marks for people to stand on and use raidwarnings.
I know people hate the guy that wants to be the director of the orchestra, but since nearly no one actually knew what was going on they listened patiently.
Try it !

Yeah, I've found that's the key. Having a person marked, too, and telling everyone to stack on the mark and follow. Usually, half the raid listens, and half doesn't, then slowly, they start learning, if they're paying attention (big if). Then it becomes pretty easy. I think it's neat to see people actually learning in LFR, though!

[Halifax]

People keep making the argument that you should have to work for loot. This argument falls apart because the point of LFR isn't loot. That's the point of it for people like us, the normal/heroic raiders, because we're going to see the content anyway, we're just there to fill in extra slots that we haven't been able to get 522s for because of crap loot RNG. However, LFR is not made for us, we just happen to be there.

The point of LFR, as stated by Blizzard many times, is to allow players who normally would not have the means to raid (either due to schedule issues, or just simply being bad) to see all of this awesome content that their $15/month goes towards. The loot is just there to make sure enough people do it to make it viable.

When we look at it this way, Durumu in it's current implementation doesn't fit. Every other boss in MoP's LFR raids has been easily survivable with only very basic skills. A bad player, with no skills keybound, who turns with WASD and who barely understands the game is able to contribute somewhat in every fight up to this point, and then continue to contribute on bosses past this point, and have an enjoyable experience (and based on the normal mode pinnacle of storms bosses, there should be no hard fail LFR mechanics on these bosses that this type of player will have a hard time with). Durumu however, this type of player will die to the maze every time.

LFR isn't made to be a challenge, or a loot pinata. It's to allow people to see content, and I don't think the current LFR Durumu fits into that goal. If I queue for this again in 3 weeks and the average LFR player can survive the maze then I'll change my mind, but I honestly don't see that happening.

[Gnarles Malarkey]

The fuck is a Durumu?

After two days, every hour spent in queue results in a 10x Determination group standing that dinosaur-looking guy in purple slime and demanding that everyone nuke. I mean, I'm nuking really good. I'm even using my trinkets when I remember to.

I'd like to try this maze thing.

[SodiumChloride]

People keep making the argument that you should have to work for loot. This argument falls apart because the point of LFR isn't loot. That's the point of it for people like us, the normal/heroic raiders, because we're going to see the content anyway, we're just there to fill in extra slots that we haven't been able to get 522s for because of crap loot RNG. However, LFR is not made for us, we just happen to be there.

The point of LFR, as stated by Blizzard many times, is to allow players who normally would not have the means to raid (either due to schedule issues, or just simply being bad) to see all of this awesome content that their $15/month goes towards. The loot is just there to make sure enough people do it to make it viable.

When we look at it this way, Durumu in it's current implementation doesn't fit. Every other boss in MoP's LFR raids has been easily survivable with only very basic skills. A bad player, with no skills keybound, who turns with WASD and who barely understands the game is able to contribute somewhat in every fight up to this point, and then continue to contribute on bosses past this point, and have an enjoyable experience (and based on the normal mode pinnacle of storms bosses, there should be no hard fail LFR mechanics on these bosses that this type of player will have a hard time with). Durumu however, this type of player will die to the maze every time.

LFR isn't made to be a challenge, or a loot pinata. It's to allow people to see content, and I don't think the current LFR Durumu fits into that goal. If I queue for this again in 3 weeks and the average LFR player can survive the maze then I'll change my mind, but I honestly don't see that happening.

Let me tell you what LFR is about - I'm just about as qualified as you anyway.

LFR is about fun. It's fun to see encounters, it's fun to get upgrades and have your character progress.

I think we can all agree on the latter point. The former point is where people differ a lot,
- some like it crazy difficult (Heroic mode),
- some like it "sane" (Normal mode),
- some just can't be assed to chain wipe, spend over an hour stuck at one boss staring at the same scenery and incurring huge repairs bills with little to show for (LFR)

You do what you want. Leave stuff that was not meant for you alone.

[Ehrenpanzer]

People keep making the argument that you should have to work for loot. This argument falls apart because the point of LFR isn't loot. That's the point of it for people like us, the normal/heroic raiders, because we're going to see the content anyway, we're just there to fill in extra slots that we haven't been able to get 522s for because of crap loot RNG. However, LFR is not made for us, we just happen to be there.

The point of LFR, as stated by Blizzard many times, is to allow players who normally would not have the means to raid (either due to schedule issues, or just simply being bad) to see all of this awesome content that their $15/month goes towards. The loot is just there to make sure enough people do it to make it viable.

When we look at it this way, Durumu in it's current implementation doesn't fit. Every other boss in MoP's LFR raids has been easily survivable with only very basic skills. A bad player, with no skills keybound, who turns with WASD and who barely understands the game is able to contribute somewhat in every fight up to this point, and then continue to contribute on bosses past this point, and have an enjoyable experience (and based on the normal mode pinnacle of storms bosses, there should be no hard fail LFR mechanics on these bosses that this type of player will have a hard time with). Durumu however, this type of player will die to the maze every time.

LFR isn't made to be a challenge, or a loot pinata. It's to allow people to see content, and I don't think the current LFR Durumu fits into that goal. If I queue for this again in 3 weeks and the average LFR player can survive the maze then I'll change my mind, but I honestly don't see that happening.

a) I'd like the link to the blue post that says LFR is made for the mentally incompetent..how is: dont stand in the beam, run in a circle, and "follow the real raider with the mark on his head" a complicated fight? Seriously...Horridon is more mechanically complex then this....And yes, it was made for them to SEE the content..not have the content kill itself for them, at some point, you either have to improve your skills, or find a different game to play..or should everyone that pays 15/month have Metzen come to their house and play their toon for them so they can "see the content?"

b) The player you are describing sounds like you are having your cat play your character...if you barely understand the game, keyboard turn AND have absolutely no keybinds you wont kill heroic dungeon bosses, nevermind raid bosses....and its not like the maze instakills you...the damage it ticks for is laughable...if you just stand there with your thumb up your ass for 20 seconds, sure you'll die...but theres LOTS of time to eat ticks of the maze while you figure out where to go

[Gnarles Malarkey]

if you barely understand the game, keyboard turn AND have absolutely no keybinds you wont kill heroic dungeon bosses

Doesn't matter. The Blood DK and Disc Priest kills them for you.

[SodiumChloride]

Maybe it's time to lock this thread. It has degenerated into a generic LFR bashing fest.

[Halifax]

a) I'd like the link to the blue post that says LFR is made for the mentally incompetent..how is: dont stand in the beam, run in a circle, and "follow the real raider with the mark on his head" a complicated fight? Seriously...Horridon is more mechanically complex then this....And yes, it was made for them to SEE the content..not have the content kill itself for them, at some point, you either have to improve your skills, or find a different game to play..or should everyone that pays 15/month have Metzen come to their house and play their toon for them so they can "see the content?"

b) The player you are describing sounds like you are having your cat play your character...if you barely understand the game, keyboard turn AND have absolutely no keybinds you wont kill heroic dungeon bosses, nevermind raid bosses....and its not like the maze instakills you...the damage it ticks for is laughable...if you just stand there with your thumb up your ass for 20 seconds, sure you'll die...but theres LOTS of time to eat ticks of the maze while you figure out where to go

Obviously Blizzard hasn't said that LFR is made for the mentally incompetent. Because it's not.

I'm going to make some assumptions based on your tone, sorry if any of these are wrong:

1. You're a gamer. You play lots of video games, and you have for a long time, probably since before World of Warcraft was a thing. (nothing wrong with this obviously).
2. You play WoW a lot, and probably have killed Normal mode ToT bosses, possibly Heroic bosses.

Assuming that either of these things are true, then LFR is not for you, so you shouldn't give a shit how hard it is. You have your normals and heroics to go challenge yourself with.

Blizzard is trying to market to everyone.

LFR is designed for casual gamers and non-gamers. The kind of people who's gaming experience prior to WoW was playing Angry Birds on their iPhone. Things that are obvious to us, are not obvious to them. Source: A parent who plays WoW. They've never played anything else. They saw me play it once and thought it looked neat. I tried showing her how to survive Durumu, it did not happen. I can say with great confidence that she is not "mentally handicapped" or incompetent. She is not good at the game, sure, but on every other fight, she contributes more than the average LFR player, and has fun doing it. But she cannot do this fight, it is not fun to die on every try in what is supposed to be a low stress environment.

Normal mode raiding is for gamers. People who play a lot of games, who are good at games, who want a moderate amount of challenge.

Heroic raiding is for "hardcore" gamers. People who spend a lot of time on the game, and/or are highly skilled at gaming, and take a lot of time to research and understand the game, and want something that requires perfect execution to earn a victory.

I'm a heroic raider, and quite frankly, based on talking to my casual friends, I think Durumu(LFR) could use a nerf. And since it getting nerfed would not affect me (or you, fellow Heroic/Normal raiders) why should you give a shit?

[Mandible]

I am not so sure about this. Not so sure at all. not with people in LFR also whining about how they had no luck with loot. What is next? a 100% gurantee to down a boss and a 100% chance at the loot you need?

If you ask me that gets dangerously close to "Every child is special and everyone can attain everything in life". Except they are not.

Oh yeah...I am just back from a wipefest on Wind Lord. And totally deserved it was too..... No...bloody...body in that raid deserved to see the boss dead and to see loot.

While I agree you need to remember what blizzard is saying about LFR. Its so "people get to watch content", so it shouldn´t surprise anyone thats how it will be treated - a free loot bag where you hardly have to do anything, and an easy victory is guaranteed.

[HardCoder]

Obviously Blizzard hasn't said that LFR is made for the mentally incompetent. Because it's not.

[...]

I'm a heroic raider, and quite frankly, based on talking to my casual friends, I think Durumu(LFR) could use a nerf. And since it getting nerfed would not affect me (or you, fellow Heroic/Normal raiders) why should you give a shit?

The "sweet spot" for LFR difficulty seems to be where you are at risk of wiping once in a group that has a bunch of clueless newbies, except maybe more on an encounter its first week or so.

No one queues for LFR looking for an epic session of 5-10 wipes. If that's what's happening, then the encounter is broken.

The visual cues in the encounter are not sufficient or appropriate or whatever for LFR. Is it too hard otherwise? I don't know. But LFR is the single most popular, successful raiding feature Blizzard has ever implemented, so it's important that it continue to be the right level of difficulty for its audience.

[Kesandri]

1. You're a gamer. You play lots of video games, and you have for a long time, probably since before World of Warcraft was a thing. (nothing wrong with this obviously).

Assuming that either of these things are true, then LFR is not for you, so you shouldn't give a shit how hard it is. You have your normals and heroics to go challenge yourself with.

Firstly this I do not agree with, LFR is not just for players who lack the 'skill' to raid normal or heroic content, LFR is for players who CAN'T raid normal or heroic content for one reason or another, weather that be to lack of skill or simply due to playing time constrictions.

I'm a heroic raider, and quite frankly, based on talking to my casual friends, I think Durumu(LFR) could use a nerf. And since it getting nerfed would not affect me (or you, fellow Heroic/Normal raiders) why should you give a shit?

Secondly this I agree with 100%. I am a raider, I have just finished normal ToT and moving onto heroics this week. I accept LFR is not aimed at me and so should anyone else who does any normal/heroic raiding, I also agree the fight does need a nerf when considering who the level of content is aimed at overall.

My main problem with LFR is the confusion around what its purpose is, it doesn't help that the gear is in fact upgrades for some normal raiders and in all seriousness putting legendary quest chain items in it kinda forces those normal/heroic raiders to 'raid' it.

tldr The durumu needs a nerf for LFR. A simple fix of the maze doing less damage should sort it out tbh.

[Tekkommo]

I couldn't care less if it gets nerfed to the ground, the one thing that grinds my gears is the fact that people complain it's too easy, then complain it's too hard.

[Raxxed]

LFR, harder than heroic.

[Halifax]

in all seriousness putting legendary quest chain items in it kinda forces those normal/heroic raiders to 'raid' it.

Offtopic, but just in case you weren't aware, you only get one shot at looting a secret of the empire from each boss once per week, regardless of difficulty. So if I clear ToT on Normal, I can't get legendary things from LFR. If I do all 4 LFRs (once we can) on Tuesday, I can't get secrets from my Normal/Heroic kills that week.

WoWhead reports that the drop rate is the same regardless of difficulty, so the order you do it doesn't matter. Shadow-Pan assault rep works the same way, so once you don't need the drops anymore, there is actually no reason for Normal/Heroic raiders to do it.

---------- Post added 2013-04-05 at 09:26 AM ----------

Firstly this I do not agree with, LFR is not just for players who lack the 'skill' to raid normal or heroic content, LFR is for players who CAN'T raid normal or heroic content for one reason or another, weather that be to lack of skill or simply due to playing time constrictions.

Yep, you're absolutely right. Unfortunately, the group of people who cannot raid and want to is made up of more mediocre players than good ones. A few of my friends are former serious raiders who due to work/family constraints can't raid on a schedule, so they resort to LFR to see content. Of course it's way too easy for them, from an individual standpoint. The problem is, enough of the LFR "population" is made up of very below average players (a quick glance at damage/healing meters after LFR bosses shows this) so if you made it harder, it would just instead be impossible.


On the topic of Durumu, I think another way to fix it for LFR would be to have the entire "maze" just be visable as soon as the beam starts so you can just follow the safe spots all the way around, and not have to stand near the beam waiting for the next bit of purple to disappear revealing the next safe spot. This would probably require a lot more work than just making the purple stuff mostly harmless though.

[Otimus]

Offtopic, but just in case you weren't aware, you only get one shot at looting a secret of the empire from each boss once per week, regardless of difficulty. So if I clear ToT on Normal, I can't get legendary things from LFR. If I do all 4 LFRs (once we can) on Tuesday, I can't get secrets from my Normal/Heroic kills that week.

WoWhead reports that the drop rate is the same regardless of difficulty, so the order you do it doesn't matter. Shadow-Pan assault rep works the same way, so once you don't need the drops anymore, there is actually no reason for Normal/Heroic raiders to do it.

---------- Post added 2013-04-05 at 09:26 AM ----------



Yep, you're absolutely right. Unfortunately, the group of people who cannot raid and want to is made up of more mediocre players than good ones. A few of my friends are former serious raiders who due to work/family constraints can't raid on a schedule, so they resort to LFR to see content. Of course it's way too easy for them, from an individual standpoint. The problem is, enough of the LFR "population" is made up of very below average players (a quick glance at damage/healing meters after LFR bosses shows this) so if you made it harder, it would just instead be impossible.


On the topic of Durumu, I think another way to fix it for LFR would be to have the entire "maze" just be visable as soon as the beam starts so you can just follow the safe spots all the way around, and not have to stand near the beam waiting for the next bit of purple to disappear revealing the next safe spot. This would probably require a lot more work than just making the purple stuff mostly harmless though.

I dare you to go view the armory of the next 10 or so slackers/super low performers/afkers in LFR. I'd be willing to bet $5 you'll find a large portion of those are normal or higher raiders. I've done it, and at least 80% of the time, it's true :x

[Deleted]

A simple fix of the maze doing less damage should sort it out tbh.

The maze dmg already is very, very low - most players get killed by the beam.

[Callypso]

On the topic of Durumu, I think another way to fix it for LFR would be to have the entire "maze" just be visable as soon as the beam starts so you can just follow the safe spots all the way around, and not have to stand near the beam waiting for the next bit of purple to disappear revealing the next safe spot. This would probably require a lot more work than just making the purple stuff mostly harmless though.

That would mean you'd just stand on the OTHER side of the beam, at the end of the maze, so that you wouldn't be required to move at all, nullifying the entire idea of the maze? :P

[NightZero88]

If you got obliterated by the beam itself, you screwed up and it's your fault. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to take a quick look at the in game Dungeon Journal, which would have very clearly told you getting hit by the beam is a bad thing.

If you died to Eye Sore, which is the purple stuff, that's different.

Yes, I should have read the journal for every boss so I knew ahead of time what happens but I don't use it, in LFR I let people who have done it on normal explain and I pick it up fairly quick and for normal's I'll look at an actual video guide. But again as I said in the post people in both the game and on here said to stand in the beam at first to see which direction it was going. Yes, people told others to stand in the beam, the thing that just one shots you.

Now after getting killed by the beam once I figured out not to do it but that still doesn't help me figure out which way to go in the maze. In LFR the maze doesn't hurt you much so I was able to just run around the boss on the time I did survive the maze. However, in normal mode where it does 100k a second, I'm not going to be able to do that. So having a better mechanic that I can practice on in LFR would be helpful instead of just oh, you can stand in the maze and live which a lot of people are saying. If you want people in LFR to not be idiots as most people here are calling them then LFR should help teach you the boss mechanics not just throw them at you and either do nothing or straight up kill you.