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  1. #1

    Why do people hate "Thinking outside the box" bosses?

    Reading the thread about T9 and the faction champions makes me wondering why people mostly hate bosses that are unique and not like the normal "tank, kill adds, go out of shit"?

    - Faction Champions: the boss was unique in its way that tanks could not tank the bosses normally. They had the chance to taunt the mobs for a short while but after that, they just ran away. People had to use CC and to play in a special way. The fight was an easy example of how a arena match works and so, everyone complained. Why?
    - Lord Rhyolith: you were able to move the boss as you wanted. But not the normal way by "Tank taunt and moves the boss", no! You had to steer him by dealing damage to the right target. Nothing to difficult, you might say. But as we saw, the audience was just crying and complaining about that "stupid steering boss" that was no big deal...
    - Dark Animus: the idea is great with having many little adds at the start of the fight where everyone has to tank one of them to not getting destoryed instantly. Doing a little math to understand how you have to deal with the fight seems to be to hard for most players as mostly everyone complains about that stupid boss. Why is it that way?

    On the other side, people cheer about a boss like Ragnaros hc (which is really great, don't think, I didn't enjoy that fight too), where you only had the stereotype mechanics "Spread, clump up, AoE adds, focus adds, kite meteor".

    Is thinking outside the box really that hard so you cannot enjoy unique bosses the developers are working hard at making for us? (There are more bosses that are unique in its own way but not that special. Feel free to comment (or disagree) with that.)

  2. #2
    The bosses listed (Except Animus which I haven't done on normal) were also big RnG fights. We had H Ryo on farm and would still wipe to him sometimes because of bad volcano spawns. Faction Champs was dynamic so it was harder to have assignments, also, as a tank, it was not a fun fight for me.

  3. #3
    I really liked the faction champs a lot. It was fun to actually have to interrupt and CC. Rhyolith was fun enough but random volcano spawns made the fight less fun for me than what it could have been.

  4. #4
    The reason people didn't like Faction Champs is because it was too much PvP in PvE for most people. I personally loved that fight, but I also love PvP. If you're bad at PvP and don't know what you're doing odds are good you aren't going to like a PvE fight that simulates PvP.

    But it's also important to remember that the group of people that dislike something will *always* be louder than the group that likes it. The group that dislikes it has a reason to complain, maybe they can prevent future fights having those same mechanics, or maybe they can get the fight nerfed. The group that likes it has no real reason to say they like it, because they don't want the fight changed and they trust that future fights will continue to be different and unique.

    Kind of the same as in the music industry, lots of people hate on Lil Wayne, but yet his albums sell a million copies each. The haters are just louder than the people who enjoy it, because they feel like hating on it somehow makes them special or makes them feel better. Negativity is just always louder than positivity, that's just kind of how it works.

  5. #5
    Unique bosses are fine, they give you a bit of a fun break from the norm while progressing through an instance.
    The trouble is when the "different" encounters are either too hard, too frequent or not made very well.
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  6. #6
    People usually don't like wiping. Don't go much further

  7. #7
    Because they are poorly implemented.

    Lord R had the RNG of volcanoes spawning in stupid places (ie behind him on the other side of the platform so have fun taking all the damage until he gets to it). Or he lights up volcanoes he just walked past. Really frustrating when it was progression.

    Faction champions was stupid because the Champions dealt out ridiculously high damage for no reason other than they could, instagibs were common and annoying.

    Dark Animus is again, a great and unique idea but poorly implemented. Melee stand around doing nothing for too much of the fight. They hit their initial small golem and then wait until enough small golems are killed by ranged so that they can get close to the next kill target golem without their small golems buffing others and killing people.

  8. #8
    Field Marshal heheMongot's Avatar
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    Well, I enjoyed Faction champs, but seriously, that fight wasn't any hard at all. All you had to do was kite a few mobs and interrupt a few heals and throw a mass dispel here and there. It was mostly an uncontrollable clusterfuck. If it hadn't been so extremely chaotic it could've made a good encounter, but well, it didn't.

    Rhyolith was only bad because of the jumpy and nonresponsive steering. I hope you're not going to argue that the mechanic was well exectued, because that bar jumped up and down like a yoyo while people were basically doing smooth DPS to the leg.

    Animus isn't stupid at all though. It is a well executed encounter that actually works as intended with no shitty RNG (except for the switch position mechanic).

    The problem with this these "out of the box encounters" is that the devs never seem to execute them well. The mechanic in itself is often unresponsive, so I'd say the problem is not with the style of the encounter but the execution of the idea.

  9. #9
    Herald of the Titans FuxieDK's Avatar
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    "Thinking out of the box" is in no way bad... But horrible RNG is..
    - FacChamp defied all logic of raiding and next to none want PvP content in PvE..
    - Rhyolith could cause wipes, solely because of where volcanoes spawned.. If volcanoes only spawned in front of the boss, RNG wuld play less of a role, and the fight would have less hate..
    - KaraChess was simply boring and horribly undertuned, as you could do it naked and still win. Also Medivh cheats, which noone likes..

  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire Vashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keashaa View Post
    Reading the thread about T9 and the faction champions makes me wondering why people mostly hate bosses that are unique and not like the normal "tank, kill adds, go out of shit"?

    - Faction Champions: the boss was unique in its way that tanks could not tank the bosses normally. They had the chance to taunt the mobs for a short while but after that, they just ran away. People had to use CC and to play in a special way. The fight was an easy example of how a arena match works and so, everyone complained. Why?
    No please not anymore Faction champs HC were so much retarded boss for me since all I was doing was spam mass dispell (aka 300 dispells per fight).

  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans Duridi's Avatar
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    I don't think it is about difficulty, but preferences.

    Personally I hate having viechles involved in bossfights. As I said after Flame Leviathan. "I want to play my character, not a goddamn viechle".

    Said people might just aswell actually enjoy other "outside the box" encounters elsewhere n the game, just not those. We can't all enjoy everything. Just because you found said encounters really unique, it doesn't mean others felt they were equally unique or special.
    Last edited by Duridi; 2013-04-08 at 09:16 AM. Reason: I wrote a whole lot pointless crap...

  12. #12
    Dark Animus is really fun fight... I don't enjoy faction champs though.

  13. #13
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Personally I'm not a fan of "think outside the box" fights because they're usually poorly implemented. I don't see anything wrong with the "traditional" types of raid encounter mechanics; in fact, I prefer tank-and-spank, boss-with-adds, tank-swap and similar fights to things with oddball mechanics like Rhyo that require either luck or 100% perfect coordination to avoid a wipe; those kinds of fights are NOT fun at all. I didn't mind Faction Champs that much (disclaimer: I didn't do ToC until ICC was out) but it was an annoying fight. Fights like Rhyolith can go jump off a cliff though. Terrible fight with terrible mechanics.
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  14. #14
    Because people are lazy! Target dummy is best boss ever. Just stay and dps. There's loot for you if you can kill him in time or try again if you suck. IMO. :P
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  15. #15
    Herald of the Titans Injin's Avatar
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    There is nothing quite like doing your homework, spending time on the dummy, reforging all your gear, optimising your gems, sorting out synergy with other players to maximise your characters* DPS/HPS or damage mitigation only to be dumped out of it and made to pilot a giant blob/robot/tentacle or other vehicle or be made to play benny hill with a semi functioning gimmick mechanic which takes hours for the whole raid to learn.

    My personal favourites are ones which pick people on an RNG basis you kill easily one week because the people who get it easily are picked and then wipe to the exact same mechanic the week after because the one guy who can't master whatever the gimmick is keeps getting the RNG stick accross his back over and over again. Or you've brought someone new and it costs everyone 150g in repairs while the new guy learns, that sort of thing.





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  16. #16
    Well these "unique" bosses tend to be bad since they are Blizzards first attempt at such mechanics. The criticism is justified.

  17. #17
    I'd say it's probably not a matter of everyone hating all the bosses that are different, but that a group of people will always hate and complain about a boss that is different in a way that bothers them. considering WoW has 9 million players, that's a lot of complaints to hear.

    for instance: you said Faction Champions was just like an arena fight. have you ever considered that perhaps many people who raid actually hate arena and pvp in general? that if those people liked arena, perhaps they'd be doing arena instead of raiding?
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  18. #18
    Herald of the Titans Seriss's Avatar
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    I don't like RNG of that sort in an encounter.

    Faction Champions were fun, yeah... but they could screw you over badly with bad RNG.

    Lord Rhyolith was a cool idea, but the steering was clunky, volcano spawns were RNG and tended to spawn and activate in exactly the places where you didn't need them at that moment. The boss wasn't hard... it was just RNG and leg-responsiveness that ranged from non-responsive to suddenly overly-responsive.

    Dark Animus is cool though.

    I hate all sorts of vehicle fights. Malygos, Flame Leviathan, Un'sok... go away.

    Ji-Kun is an outside-of-the-box encounter, if you ask me, what with forming teams that tackle certain nests. Also Primordius is very unusual. Or Twin Consorts what with the constellations-minigame.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Seriss View Post
    I don't like RNG of that sort in an encounter.

    Faction Champions were fun, yeah... but they could screw you over badly with bad RNG.

    Lord Rhyolith was a cool idea, but the steering was clunky, volcano spawns were RNG and tended to spawn and activate in exactly the places where you didn't need them at that moment. The boss wasn't hard... it was just RNG and leg-responsiveness that ranged from non-responsive to suddenly overly-responsive.

    Dark Animus is cool though.

    I hate all sorts of vehicle fights. Malygos, Flame Leviathan, Un'sok... go away.

    Ji-Kun is an outside-of-the-box encounter, if you ask me, what with forming teams that tackle certain nests. Also Primordius is very unusual. Or Twin Consorts what with the constellations-minigame.
    I loved Amber Shaper Un'sok. We had a minigame where every time you failed to interrupt yourself or the Amber Monstrosity you owed everyone in the raid 500 gold. After the first night I never messed up in the vehicle and by the end of H Amber Shaper progression I was like 20k gold richer.

  20. #20
    Dreadlord Harmonious's Avatar
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    Faction Champions were pretty awesome in my opinion, the most fun boss encounter I've done I think, even more fun trying to solo it at 90 :P.

    I'd hope there would be a similar encounter during siege of orgrimmar, but I doubt they'd reuse a boss so obviously.

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