Looking for a website

[averykey]

Been looking for a website that lists a well thought out rotation for arms/fury that has numbers to back it up. Elitistjerks doesn't seem to have a thread up and noxxic is terrible. Right now I'm doing the icy-veins rotation but they just list the base rotation. They don't explain why we do that order or have a discussion that lets players improve on it.

So my question is, Is there a website that is similar to ej that has the priority listed with community discussion and numbers to back it up?

[Deleted]

Haha. How is Noxxic terrible? It lists all the same information as every other site.

Edit: Same info everywhere. http://www.noxxic.com/wow/pve/warrior/arms

[Darkfriend]

Haha. How is Noxxic terrible? It lists all the same information as every other site.

Edit: Same info everywhere. http://www.noxxic.com/wow/pve/warrior/arms

Take it from me. Noxxic and icy veins are bad website.

Honestly, they don't really exist outside of guides. We're lazy guide writers/

[savethetuna]

Noxxic is absolutely fine for a resource guide.

[Cirque]

He's looking for a place with some theorycrafting, not a general guide, or at the very least a guide with a discussion added to it. EJ has been dead for awhile now, and I'd also be interested in alternatives that are not Noxxic, let alone Icyveins, where people can intelligently discuss everything in one place, one forum, or even one thread, as opposed to a disconnected guide. Both sites have been wrong on more than one occassion with no proper opportunity to discuss.

[averykey]

Noxxic is absolutely fine for a resource guide.

Noxxic arms

Stance:
Use one of the following stances.

Battle Stance Use during periods of normal raid damage.
Berserker Stance Use during periods of high raid damage.
DPS Priority:
Execute this priority for optimal DPS.

Mortal Strike on cooldown. Applies Deep Wounds.
Colossus Smash Use as often as possible. Watch for Sudden Death procs.
Heroic Leap if Colossus Smash buff is up. Not on the GCD!
Heroic Strike to dump Rage (70+) when Colossus Smash is up. Not on the GCD!
Execute on cooldown when target is below 20% health.
Overpower whenever available.
Slam to dump Rage (40+) when target is above 20% Health.
Arms Warrior DPS follows the priority outlined above. Use Mortal Strike as often as possible to build Rage and maintain Deep Wounds. Cast Colossus Smash as often as possible (without overwriting) and make sure to not waste any Sudden Death procs. Try to pool Rage before Colossus Smash so that you cast as many attacks as possible during its debuff. Also, while the Colossus Smash buff is up, always try to use Heroic Leap as it is not on the GCD and can be activated along with your other abilities. Heroic Strike should also be used while to Colossus Smash buff is up, but only to dump excess Rage (70+) during this time.

After this, use Execute as often as Rage will allow when your target is below 20% health. Cast Overpower as frequently as possible to consume Taste For Blood procs. Finally, use Slam as a filler to dump Rage when you have a moderate amount (40+) and your target is above 20% health.

AoE Rotation

Sweeping Strikes
Thunder Clap
Whirlwind
Dragon Roar
With 2-3 targets, use Thunder Clap to apply Deep Wounds then activate Sweeping Strikes and proceed with the single target rotation. Maintain Sweeping Strikes as much as possible and refresh Deep Wounds every 15 seconds. At 4+ targets, use Thunder Clap to apply and maintain Deep Wounds and spam Whirlwind. Don’t forget to use Heroic Leap to quickly close the gap to AoE targets. Use Dragon Roar on cooldown.

Effective Cooldowns

These effective cooldowns are available if you chose them in your talent build.

Dragon Roar Use on cooldown for single target and AoE DPS.
Bloodbath Use on cooldown for single target and AoE DPS.
These are effective cooldowns to try and incorporate into most all encounters.

Battle Shout Maintain this buff and use for extra Rage.
Berserker Rage Use as needed to maintain Enrage.
Heroic Leap Use to quickly close the gap to your targets.
Recklessness Use as often as possible. Stack with other DPS cooldowns.
Shattering Throw Use as often as possible. Best timed with other raid cooldowns.
Skull Banner Use as often as possible. Best timed with other raid cooldowns.

Simulationcraft arms

actions=auto_attack
actions+=/mogu_power_potion,if=(target.health.pct<20&buff.recklessness.up)|buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<=25
actions+=/use_item,name=daelos_final_words
actions+=/blood_fury
actions+=/recklessness,if=target.time_to_die<=18|((target.time_to_die>=186|(target.health.pct<20&(debuff.colossus_smash.remains>=5|cooldown.colossus_smash.remains<=1.5)))&(!talent.bloodbath.enabled|!cooldown.bloodbath.remains))
actions+=/bloodbath,if=talent.bloodbath.enabled&(target.time_to_die<=18|buff.recklessness.up|target.time_to_die>=75)
actions+=/avatar,if=talent.avatar.enabled&(buff.recklessness.up|target.time_to_die<=25)
actions+=/skull_banner,if=buff.recklessness.up
actions+=/use_item,name=crafted_dreadful_gladiators_plate_gauntlets,if=talent.bloodbath.enabled&buff.bloodbath.up
actions+=/berserker_rage,if=buff.enrage.down&rage<=rage.max-10
actions+=/heroic_leap,if=debuff.colossus_smash.up
actions+=/run_action_list,name=aoe,if=active_enemies>=2
actions+=/run_action_list,name=single_target,if=active_enemies<2

actions.single_target=heroic_strike,if=(debuff.colossus_smash.up&rage>=rage.max-40&target.health.pct>=20)|rage>=rage.max-15
actions.single_target+=/mortal_strike
actions.single_target+=/dragon_roar,if=talent.dragon_roar.enabled&talent.bloodbath.enabled&buff.bloodbath.up&debuff.colossus_smash.down&target.health.pct>=20
actions.single_target+=/storm_bolt,if=talent.storm_bolt.enabled&debuff.colossus_smash.up
actions.single_target+=/colossus_smash,if=debuff.colossus_smash.remains<1
actions.single_target+=/execute,if=debuff.colossus_smash.up|buff.recklessness.up|rage>=rage.max-25
actions.single_target+=/dragon_roar,if=talent.dragon_roar.enabled&((talent.bloodbath.enabled&buff.bloodbath.up&target.health.pct>=20)|(debuff.colossus_smash.down&target.health.pct<20))
actions.single_target+=/slam,if=debuff.colossus_smash.up&(debuff.colossus_smash.remains<1|buff.recklessness.up)&target.health.pct>=20
actions.single_target+=/overpower,if=buff.taste_for_blood.stack>=3&target.health.pct>=20
actions.single_target+=/slam,if=debuff.colossus_smash.up&debuff.colossus_smash.remains<2.5&target.health.pct>=20
actions.single_target+=/execute,if=buff.sudden_execute.down
actions.single_target+=/overpower,if=target.health.pct>=20|buff.sudden_execute.up
actions.single_target+=/slam,if=rage>=40&target.health.pct>=20
actions.single_target+=/battle_shout
actions.single_target+=/heroic_throw

actions.aoe=sweeping_strikes
actions.aoe+=/cleave,if=rage>110
actions.aoe+=/mortal_strike
actions.aoe+=/dragon_roar,if=talent.dragon_roar.enabled&buff.bloodbath.up
actions.aoe+=/thunder_clap
actions.aoe+=/colossus_smash,if=debuff.colossus_smash.remains<1
actions.aoe+=/overpower
actions.aoe+=/whirlwind
actions.aoe+=/battle_shout,if=rage<70

icy veins arms

1. Single Target Rotation↑top

The Arms Warrior rotation is made up of cycles of 4 global cooldowns. Each cycle consists in one  Mortal Strike followed by 3 abilities, based on the priority list below (note that we include Mortal Strike in the priority list, for completeness' sake).

Use  Mortal Strike on cooldown.
Use  Colossus Smash
If the Colossus Smash debuff is not active, or if it has less than 1.5 seconds remaining on the target.
Use  Heroic Strike (remember that it is not on the global cooldown).
If the debuff applied by Colossus Smash is active and you have 70 or more rage OR
If you cannot use  Execute (the target is above 20% health) and you have 85 or more rage.
Use  Execute
If the target is below 20% health (it is not available otherwise) AND
If the debuff applied by Colossus Smash is active.
Use abilities that cost no rage, such as your tier 4 talents or  Impending Victory.
Use  Execute.
Use  Slam
If you cannot use  Execute (the target is above 20% health) AND
If you have 90 or more rage.
Use  Overpower (remember that it is free of rage cost for 10 seconds after using  Execute).
Use  Slam
If you cannot use  Execute (the target is above 20% health) AND
If you have 40 or more rage.
Use  Battle Shout or  Commanding Shout (depending on which of the two you have chosen to provide for your raid) in order to generate rage when nothing else is available (only if you have less than 85 rage).
 Berserker Rage plays a crucial part in your DPS performance. We treat this ability as a cooldown, so you will find it in the cooldown sections.

Note that it is important to understand several key concepts of the rotation in order to be able to execute it comfortably. We advise you to read our section on key concepts.

2. Multiple Target Rotation↑top

When facing two enemies, you should keep up  Sweeping Strikes and execute a single target rotation. You should cast  Mortal Strike alternatively on both targets, to maintain  Deep Wounds on both of them.

When facing three enemies, you should:

Spread  Deep Wounds to all targets through  Thunder Clap (thanks to  Blood and Thunder).
Keep up  Sweeping Strikes.
Use your tier 4 talent of choice on cooldown.
Execute a normal rotation on one of the targets, replacing  Heroic Strike with  Cleave.
When facing four or more enemies, you should:

Spread  Deep Wounds to all targets through  Thunder Clap (thanks to  Blood and Thunder).
Use your tier 4 talent of choice on cooldown.
Use  Whirlwind whenever your rage allows. In the meanwhile, use  Mortal Strike,  Colossus Smash and  Overpower.
3. Cooldown Usage↑top

As an Arms Warrior, you have several DPS cooldowns. Additionally, you can obtain two more DPS cooldowns from your talents of choice.

 Berserker Rage should be used to help with your  Enrage uptime. This is more subtle, and we tackle it in depth in a later section.
 Recklessness should be used as many times as possible throughout the encounter. It is ideal to stack it with other cooldowns.
 Skull Banner should be used as many times as possible throughout the fight, but keep in mind that the rest of your raid should benefit from this as well.
 Shattering Throw is essentially a raid cooldown, so keep in mind that the rest of your raid should benefit from it as well.
For more details on these cooldowns, as well as on the cooldowns granted to you by your talents, refer to our detailed cooldown usage section.

4. Stance↑top

 Battle Stance grants you a lot of rage with each melee attack you make, but grants you no rage from damage taken.

 Berserker Stance grants you half the rage that Battle Stance does, from your melee attacks, but also grants you rage from damage taken.

Other than this, there is no difference between the stances, and your abilities are not conditioned at all by your current stance. Therefore, use Berserker Stance when there is high raid damage, and Battle Stance otherwise.

5. Mastering Your Arms Warrior↑top

The guidelines given above will enable you to play your Arms Warrior with good results. If you want to push things further and master your character, then we advise you to continue reading.

5.1. Rage Generation
By default, your rage is generated from two sources:

Dealing damage with auto attacks.
Using special abilities that generate rage ( Charge,  Mortal Strike, etc.).
Exceptionally, if you are in  Berserker Stance, you also generate rage from damage taken.

Your rage is mostly used by abilities in your rotation, although some utility spells also cost rage.

5.2. Key Concepts
5.2.1. Deep Wounds
 Deep Wounds is a passively applied bleed effect. Even though you will often see this mentioned in tooltips, you do not need to concern yourself with it. Simply assume that you will always have it active (if you are following our recommended rotation).

5.2.2. Enrage
Each time you critically strike with  Mortal Strike and  Colossus Smash, you become enraged, dealing 10% increased physical damage for 6 seconds. This will happen passively, so you do not need to concern yourself with it. Being enraged is a pre-requisite for certain abilities ( Enraged Regeneration is free of cost, for example, if you are enraged), so it is advisable to have a way of monitoring this buff.

5.2.3. Colossus Smash
 Colossus Smash should be used, primarily, for the debuff which it applies, and not for its damage. In the 6 seconds after using Colossus Smash, all of your abilities deal significantly more damage.

You should also keep in mind that your  Sudden Death passive ability provides you with a 10% chance to reset the cooldown on your Colossus Smash each time you perform an auto attack or have a proc from your Mastery (which basically grants you additional auto attacks). Because this effect does not have an internal cooldown, you should use Colossus Smash as soon as possible, when it becomes available, to avoid wasting Sudden Death procs.

Finally, you should always wait for the 6-second debuff to wear off before using Colossus Smash again (assuming its cooldown was reset shortly after using it), so that the debuffs applied by your subsequent Colossus Smashes do not overlap.

Therefore, you should use Colossus Smash following these guidelines:

Use as many abilities as possible in the time that the debuff is active.
Do not use Colossus Smash while the debuff from the previous Colossus Smash has more than 1.5 seconds remaining.
Use Colossus Smash as soon as it is available (provided that the debuff from the previous one has worn off). You can delay it for a few seconds so that abilities like  Mortal Strike come off cooldown or until you have a lot of rage.
5.2.4. Overpower
Your  Overpower ability is normally only usable after one of your attacks is dodged. Thanks to the  Taste for Blood passive ability, Arms Warriors can gain additional Overpowers. Each time  Mortal Strike deals damage, you gain two Overpowers (you can have up to a maximum of 5 Overpower uses stacked up in this way).

Using Overpower reduces the cooldown of  Mortal Strike by 0.5 seconds.

Finally, each time you use  Execute, Overpower costs no rage for 10 seconds.

5.2.5. Sunder Armor
If no one else in your raid is providing the  Sunder Armor debuff, then you should do so yourself. All you need to do is apply it at the start of the fight, after which  Colossus Smash should always refresh it (thanks to  Glyph of Colossus Smash). If there is a Feral or Guardian Druid, or a Protection Warrior, then the uptime of the debuff is practically guaranteed.

5.3. Detailed Cooldown Usage
5.3.1. Recklessness
There is no great subtlety to using  Recklessness. Simply make sure to use it as many times as possible during the encounter, and try to stack it with as many other cooldowns as possible (especially with  Skull Banner and  Heroism/ Bloodlust/ Time Warp).

5.3.2. War Banners
 Skull Banner is by far the most important of your banners. While we advise to always use it together with  Recklessness (and  Avatar, should you chose that talent), you must keep in mind that it is an extremely powerful raid buff. As such, if there is a time when your raid would benefit more from using the cooldown, than you would by stacking it with your other cooldowns, you should put the raid's best interests first.

 Demoralizing Banner is also a raid cooldown of sorts, although it is a fairly weak one. You should coordinate with your raid leader, or at least with your tanks, in order to figure out the best time to use it.

 Mocking Banner is mostly useless in PvE raids, but it could have some merit against adds.

5.3.3. Berserker Rage
 Berserker Rage is a very powerful DPS cooldown, especially so when you consider that it only has a 30-second cooldown. Berserker Rage must be considered together with  Enrage.

Their effects do not stack, so using Berserker Rage while Enrage is active is a waste. As such, you should keep in mind that Enrage will proc off  Mortal Strike and  Colossus Smash critical strikes, and adjust your Berserker Rage usage accordingly:

Always make sure that you are enraged while under the effects of Colossus Smash (6-second debuff). If the Colossus Smash itself did not proc an enrage, then you will be presented with the following two posibilities:
The Mortal Strike which you used before Colossus Smash did not proc Enrage, in which case you should use  Berserker Rage immediately after Colossus Smash.
The Mortal Strike which you used before Colossus Smash procced an Enrage, in which case you should use  Berserker Rage as soon as this Enrage expires.
Try to maximise the optime of your enrage state. The safest way of making sure that your enrages do not stack is to always wait until after a  Mortal Strike- Colossus Smash sequence, and if neither resulted in an Enrage proc, using  Berserker Rage.
5.3.4. Shattering Throw
 Shattering Throw is a raid cooldown above all else. As such, you should always prioritise your raid's best interests when determining the time to use this ability. We advise that you consult with your raid leader, as well as with other Warriors.

5.3.5. Tier 4 Talents
 Shockwave and  Dragon Roar are both valuable when used against a single target, despite the fact that they are designed with multiple targets in mind. As such, no matter what you choose, you should incorporate it into your rotation by using it on cooldown.

 Bladestorm is a slight DPS loss against a single target. As such, though, it should only be taken and used when you can benefit from one of its other effects.

Consider the multiple target properties of these abilities, and if there is a situation that is suited for them, try to save them for that time. For example, if a pack of adds is just about to spawn, it is fine to delay your ability slightly so as to make better use of it (or to make use of it at all, in the case of Bladestorm).

5.3.6. Tier 6 Talents
 Avatar should be stacked with  Recklessness and  Skull Banner at all times. Additionally, you should try to make sure that you use  Berserker Rage while Avatar is active.

 Bloodbath should be used on cooldown.

 Storm Bolt should be used on cooldown. Due to its short cooldown, it will essentially become part of your rotation.

Simcraft might have the best rotation but we really don't know because there is no community talking about the rotation, icy veins explains why we do certain things and provides heaps more info than noxxic. Noxxic really isn't that great.

Now I'm not looking to start a flame war, but if no one has the website that I am asking for then please don't post.

[Deleted]

I've looked at Icy Veins and Noxxic and they are probably good enough if you're a LFR / normal mode raider.

One thing I keep wondering about: They both place MS over CS in the priority list. Isn't it better to apply CS before doing MS, so that MS can benefit from the armor reduction?

[keqe]

Icy Veins is good, but those sites must be used together with common sense.

[Choptimus]

Take it from me. Noxxic and icy veins are bad website.

Honestly, they don't really exist outside of guides. We're lazy guide writers/

Sick, totally rad bro.

[Deleted]

I've read Noxxic recently and Icy Veins some time ago, and as far as I'm aware, they both offer pretty much the same information. Yes, one thing that I would point out that Noxxic is wrong on is the use of MS before CS. You just need to remember to look at your CS cd and then judge how best to get as much damage in the time CS is up.

[Darkfriend]

As stated literally dozens of times on other threads Icy-veins and Noxxic ignore all the nuance and little details that go into playing warriors well. For instance, did you know you can never save a RB proc that occurs immediately after a CS phase ends? It'll either drop, or you'll get a 2nd proc and need to spend one before your next BT-CS-RB-BT-RB-RB. Since you'll be enraged if you proc'ed it anyway, it is therefore almost always better to spend it right away.

Another thing, for fury, icy veins has CS being used on CD pretty much, instead of covering the proper fury warrior use of CS (Which is have 1 RB proc going into BT-CS-RB-BT-RB-RB+3-4HS and a HL)

BB should not always be used on CD. Since you're not hitting CS every 20 seconds you should delay the 2nd BB for 6-10 seconds to line up with your 3rd CS.

[Deleted]

Just going to simply break it down for you. Get information from a basic resource site like noxxic and play your class.