Edward Snowden identified as source of NSA leaks

[Jackmoves]

You certainly seem to be defending him. He's a traitor, and should be tried as such.

No I'm just critizing NSA for spying on everyone, including organizations, corporations and individuals who mean no harm to the US whatsoever. I'm also pointing out some possible side effects of the system. If Snowden could access as much information as he claims then literally anyone in his position could sell for example corporate secrets/internal mails to competing businesses.

Off for a vernissage now!

peace out!

[Tinykong]

Do people who are calling Snowden a traitor not understand what a whistle blower is?

[oblivionx]

Do people who are calling Snowden a traitor not understand what a whistle blower is?

Yes they do, they would have been calling him a "patriot" and whistle blower 6 years ago. But you can't really deal with people bereft of any sort of honesty, they are just trying to protect poor Barry from being revealed as he is.

[cubby]

Do people who are calling Snowden a traitor not understand what a whistle blower is?

I'm not sure you understand what a whistle blower is.

---------- Post added 2013-06-14 at 06:04 PM ----------

Yes they do, they would have been calling him a "patriot" and whistle blower 6 years ago. But you can't really deal with people bereft of any sort of honesty, they are just trying to protect poor Barry from being revealed as he is.

They wouldn't have been doing any such thing, at any point. I hate the Bush administration and what he/they did to this country, but if someone had come out just like Snowden did, but then, I would be saying the same thing. Traitor. Not even really a complicated issue.

[Kujako]

Do people who are calling Snowden a traitor not understand what a whistle blower is?

What illegal activities did he blow the whistle on? Pointing out that the NSA is doing what the Patriot Act said they could do is not whistle blowing.

The legal definition requires evidences of a violation of a law, rule or regulation; gross mismanagement; gross waste of funds; an abuse of authority; or a substantial and specific danger to public health or safety being disclosed. While it's good that attention is being drawn to what the NSA is suposed doing, it is all "legitimate" under current law.

[Naxere]

What illegal activities did he blow the whistle on? Pointing out that the NSA is doing what the Patriot Act said they could do is not whistle blowing.

The legal definition requires evidences of a violation of a law, rule or regulation; gross mismanagement; gross waste of funds; an abuse of authority; or a substantial and specific danger to public health or safety being disclosed. While it's good that attention is being drawn to what the NSA is suposed doing, it is all "legitimate" under current law.

I guess it depends whether or not you consider PRISM to be an "abuse of authority." Some, such as myself, do.

[vaeevictiss]

Heh... regardless of what you think of Snowden, agree or disagree.

He certainly picked the one place to go where he can't be taken out by a drone or renditioned.

It's not cowardly to not want to be assassinated or kidnapped, it's not like he went somewhere without an extradition treaty. He went somewhere he can't be touched unless thru a court system.

pet peeve here, its not considered assassination unless its a public/political figure. People misuse that word often

[Kujako]

I guess it depends whether or not you consider PRISM to be an "abuse of authority." Some, such as myself, do.

But it is exactly what they where authorized to do. I'm just saying you cant grant them massive surveillance power and then expect them not to use it.

[Naxere]

But it is exactly what they where authorized to do. I'm just saying you cant grant them massive surveillance power and then expect them not to use it.

I'm just going by what the definition of what a whistle blower is according to what you provided. Are you saying because we granted it to them, it can't be abused?

[Kujako]

I'm just going by what the definition of what a whistle blower is according to what you provided. Are you saying because we granted it to them, it can't be abused?

I'm saying it's not being abused because it is exactly what we (as a country) said they could do. To abuse it, they would have to use it for things it was not intended. Building a list of people who eat at Burger King to help with the Mc Donald's cabal for example. We said they could monitor just about everything we do to stop the "terrorists". That's what they're doing. If there was an abuse of power, it was by Congress and the President when they passed the laws in the first place. But that boat has sadly sailed.

[Theinquisition]

Do people who are calling Snowden a traitor not understand what a whistle blower is?

Thing is, a whistle blower will use the system to address a grevience. He could have went to his state senator or House rep.....He decided to flee overseas and tell a foreign Press service.

I'm not saying hes a traitor, but id definately stop short of calling him a hero or whistle blower either.

[skitzin]

Thing is, a whistle blower will use the system to address a grevience. He could have went to his state senator or House rep.....He decided to flee overseas and tell a foreign Press service.

I think part of it gets muddied in the fact that any and every time something comes up that reflects poorly on the US government, whether external or internal in origin, they start talking about treason and/or espionage charges. Making it a dangerous action to try and confide in a local system, particularly if you having issues with said system. Hell let's say he did do this, what stops the senator being charged with treason too for supporting him?

Not having a go just saying I think that there is a serious limit on what he could've done about the release of this information in the US.

I'm not saying hes a traitor, but id definately stop short of calling him a hero or whistle blower either.

I think this is the issue people get caught up in. Is he in column A or B, ignoring the fact he has brought to light an issue that wasn't exactly well known and that many might not agree with.

---------- Post added 2013-06-15 at 02:44 AM ----------

I'm saying it's not being abused because it is exactly what we (as a country) said they could do. To abuse it, they would have to use it for things it was not intended. Building a list of people who eat at Burger King to help with the Mc Donald's cabal for example. We said they could monitor just about everything we do to stop the "terrorists". That's what they're doing. If there was an abuse of power, it was by Congress and the President when they passed the laws in the first place. But that boat has sadly sailed.

I'd argue that despite all this information they haven't been able to prevent events such as Boston from happening, thus the information they are collecting is not as critical and useful as they claim. Which would make the grounds for such access to this information false and thus an abuse of power against their own people.

[Theinquisition]

I think part of it gets muddied in the fact that any and every time something comes up that reflects poorly on the US government, whether external or internal in origin, they start talking about treason and/or espionage charges. Making it a dangerous action to try and confide in a local system, particularly if you having issues with said system. Hell let's say he did do this, what stops the senator being charged with treason too for supporting him?

Not having a go just saying I think that there is a serious limit on what he could've done about the release of this information in the US.



I think this is the issue people get caught up in. Is he in column A or B, ignoring the fact he has brought to light an issue that wasn't exactly well known and that many might not agree with.

I haven't really heard anyone call him a traitor, or have i hear about treason charges being brought up against him. Especially since the issue he is bringing up is a issue with the U.S. Gov't spying on its own citizens.

I might just be out of the loop though.

Personally I think he has some qualms about the way the information is being gathered, though i do doubt his intent. I think if he was serious about addresing the problem he would have handled it at a lower level first. Going to a forigen press service is in bad taste. Give our system the chance to fix the problem before you go airing it to the whole world.

[Reeve]

I haven't really heard anyone call him a traitor, or have i hear about treason charges being brought up against him. Especially since the issue he is bringing up is a issue with the U.S. Gov't spying on its own citizens.

I might just be out of the loop though.

Personally I think he has some qualms about the way the information is being gathered, though i do doubt his intent. I think if he was serious about addresing the problem he would have handled it at a lower level first. Going to a forigen press service is in bad taste. Give our system the chance to fix the problem before you go airing it to the whole world.

Who would he have gone to within the system? All the orders were done with judicial approval.

[Tinykong]

What illegal activities did he blow the whistle on? Pointing out that the NSA is doing what the Patriot Act said they could do is not whistle blowing.

I'm not sure you understand what a whistle blower is.

What the NSA is doing isn't illegal, but it should be. How interesting that the people who are having the whistle blown on them are the same people who are responsible for drafting the legislation that determines the legality of their actions.

Snowden is a whistle blower because he is exposing illegal activity that is only deemed legal because the people responsible have the authority to legislate themselves.

We need a system for people like Snowden to report this kind of activity and a process to penalize, incarcerate and rollback the legislation.

Pardon me for not putting any faith in the government acting as it's own watch dog.

[SL1200]

Snowden is a traitor period. He needs to be arrested and put to death, or just plain put to death.

[Payday]

I'd argue that despite all this information they haven't been able to prevent events such as Boston from happening, thus the information they are collecting is not as critical and useful as they claim. Which would make the grounds for such access to this information false and thus an abuse of power against their own people.

How can you make this claim while having zero knowledge whatsoever of attacks that it has prevented, since they didn't happen? I'm really curious to know.

[Sky High]

What the NSA is doing isn't illegal, but it should be.

john Oliver: " Mr president, we are not saying you broke the law, we are saying it's kind of weird you didn't have to." Why people are calling for this guys head on a pike over him exposing the government spying on them, which as far as we can only assume at this point goes beyond keeping phone records. as if he joined the fucking Taliban and shot some US soldiers, he did not endanger any of our interests. he only let the American, and European people know the US government is watching them. how that puts peoples lives at risk is a head scratcher to me.

---------- Post added 2013-06-14 at 12:39 PM ----------

How can you make this claim while having zero knowledge whatsoever of attacks that it has prevented, since they didn't happen? I'm really curious to know.

I think that's a fair claim to make. unless the government lets us know what attacks it DID prevent with this program id have a LIL less of a problem with it, but that would mean the government tell us things. kind of a catch 20.

[Payday]

as if he joined the fucking Taliban and shot some US soldiers, he did not endanger any of our interests. he only let the American, and European people know the US government is watching them. how that puts peoples lives at risk is a head scratcher to me.

Did you ever think that terrorists having a better understanding of how we catch them might translate to us catching less terrorists, or foiling less terrorist attacks?

You must scratch your head a lot then.

[Tinykong]

Did you ever think that terrorists having a better understanding of how we catch them might translate to us catching less terrorists, or foiling less terrorist attacks?

You must scratch your head a lot then.

Our right to privacy is more important than thwarting a potential terrorist attack.

I don't buy the "we need this to catch them" bullshit. Develop a new procedure that doesn't involve a technological dragnet.

If we can't come up with one, employ someone who can. A high school drop out making ~$120k a year might be a good place to start when it comes to replacing personnel.