Warlock patch 5.4 discussion

[Lulbalance]

wtf you misundertood him

that was so awesome! you put 'wtf' in your post because that's how i started mine! that was really good what you did there, i would never think to put that ahead of a productive answer.. kudos!

there was 1 question in that post, you can tell because it has a question mark after it. so referring to changes being reverting while quoting that question is random.

anyways i'm just going to assume it's just generally bugged since i tested it again today with the same result .

[Hexotic]

i looked through the thread and maybe Im blind or just didnt notice it, but did the wording change on dark soul change anything? it seems like it says the same thing, but at the same time in the back of my head it seems like its a sneaky change.

Demonology
Dark Soul: Knowledge now increases the effects of Mastery: Master Demonologist by an additional 30% for 20 sec, rather than increasing Mastery.

[Norp]

If people actually scrolled back through the thread they would get this information.

The Amp trinket and the 11761 crit rating on proc trinket are both 105 second internal CD

The stacking int one is RPPM

The other are just a waste of time for single target honestly.

The synergy between UVLS and the amp trinket is big, but UVLS will be replaced next tier by the t16 trinkets.

I tried looking for the info but couldn't find it. All I found were other comments of players saying it has a 105 ICD but nothing solid. Would you mind linking the info, thx in advance.

[NeverStop]

i looked through the thread and maybe Im blind or just didnt notice it, but did the wording change on dark soul change anything? it seems like it says the same thing, but at the same time in the back of my head it seems like its a sneaky change.

New DS: Knowledge doesn't benefit from Amplification.

[Deleted]

I tried looking for the info but couldn't find it. All I found were other comments of players saying it has a 105 ICD but nothing solid. Would you mind linking the info, thx in advance.

There is no blue posts stating the internals / rppm system on the new trinkets yet, but from practice the info i gave before is correct (although subject to change ofc as it is ptr)

[Hexotic]

New DS: Knowledge doesn't benefit from Amplification.

so would that be the only reason they changed it? not to base the entire spec on a proc of 1 trinket? so unlike blizzard, *stares at UVLS*

[Deleted]

so would that be the only reason they changed it? not to base the entire spec on a proc of 1 trinket? so unlike blizzard, *stares at UVLS*

Seems like it, the other 2 specs get flat modifiers, demo's because it was rating benefited from the amp trinket, but ye its kinda funny when you reference it toward how much UVLS dictated the demo play in t15

[Count Zero]

so would that be the only reason they changed it? not to base the entire spec on a proc of 1 trinket? so unlike blizzard, *stares at UVLS*

Maybe I just missed it, but I don't remember people talking about UVLS like it was god before it went live and people started getting it. I do know that Demo did not initially sim higher (at least on the official simulationcraft page) than Destro in BiS gear. I think people got it, realized how to maximize its use, and that's when the sims shot up.

With this amp trinket, people are already talking about it.

Correct me if my recollection of events is wrong, tho ... I do miss plenty of stuff on here despite trying to keep up.

[Deleted]

Your pretty correct, i vaguely remember a few posts that brusalk and a few others were involved in mentioning the synergy with the glyph of everlasting affliction but you are correct, practically no one actually realised how strong that trinket was before it went live.

[Brusalk]

Your pretty correct, i vaguely remember a few posts that brusalk and a few others were involved in mentioning the synergy with the glyph of everlasting affliction but you are correct, practically no one actually realised how strong that trinket was before it went live.

I knew it was going to be strong. I'm the one who came up with using EA + UVLS first as far as I know. /brag

Being less facetious, Destro was simming super strong compared to the other specs largely because Demo had a terrible APL and was no where near as good as even Destro (which wasn't all that great back then anyway).

In addition, I think a lot of people saw the initial results with Destro being supreme over all because of that ridiculous coefficient GC reported for Destro and the meta. Then they corrected themselves and Destro went way back down again. (Remind me again, why does Destro have the lowest coefficient on the legendary meta out of all the warlocks specs? :/)

[Deleted]

Remind me again, why does Destro have the lowest coefficient on the legendary meta out of all the warlocks specs? :/

They wanted to let Destro players have a choice between the legendary and the regular metagems. Do you really want everything handed to you without any research on which one is the least bad ? *sigh*



Yes, I'm being sarcastic

[Jessicka]

They wanted to let Destro players have a choice between the legendary and the regular metagems. Do you really want everything handed to you without any research on which one is the least bad ? *sigh*



Yes, I'm being sarcastic

Real answer is probably because most players would be using it at the sorts of gear levels where Destruction is superior. Not balancing around the top end, same reason they wont ever nerf Mages.

I knew it was going to be strong. I'm the one who came up with using EA + UVLS first as far as I know. /brag

Being less facetious, Destro was simming super strong compared to the other specs largely because Demo had a terrible APL and was no where near as good as even Destro (which wasn't all that great back then anyway).

In addition, I think a lot of people saw the initial results with Destro being supreme over all because of that ridiculous coefficient GC reported for Destro and the meta. Then they corrected themselves and Destro went way back down again. (Remind me again, why does Destro have the lowest coefficient on the legendary meta out of all the warlocks specs? :/)

May be that earlier sims were using T14H profile rather than T15H. Scaling and all that.

[Bloodfire]

I wonder if they can add a minor glyph that will show us is demon form as usual, animation of casting ToC with Staff looks very nice

[Xyronic]

I knew it was going to be strong. I'm the one who came up with using EA + UVLS first as far as I know. /brag

Being less facetious, Destro was simming super strong compared to the other specs largely because Demo had a terrible APL and was no where near as good as even Destro (which wasn't all that great back then anyway).

In addition, I think a lot of people saw the initial results with Destro being supreme over all because of that ridiculous coefficient GC reported for Destro and the meta. Then they corrected themselves and Destro went way back down again. (Remind me again, why does Destro have the lowest coefficient on the legendary meta out of all the warlocks specs? :/)

Fearsom and I were playing GoSac EA Demo on the PTR the first test after UVLS was made available. Way back in february when I first mentioned GoSac would be viable, this was what I was referring to. Remember the naysayers?

[Rayaleith]

It's pretty obvious why portals were nerfed:

Strats became at risk of becoming completely based around having enough Warlocks in the raid to leverage portals to the extreme. Rendering some mechanics easy or trivial, yet the same mechanics unworkable or disproportionately different in difficulty for those who couldnt muster the warlock roster or requirements (or be expected to on smaller raid formats). The problem Blizzard saw is finding a way to balance around those two extremes. I'm sure everyone can think of a few fights im referring to and examples (What class was the player who switched guilds momentarily to help another guild get a kill on a certain boss - etc??)

Its a great spell and fun mechanic. But the problem is balancing with it VS without it.

Yes ok but I saw somewhere a nice suggestion from a guy. Make the 60 second CD to everyone BUT the warlock and let the locks retain the current CD. This would not break any mechanics.

[Chrispotter]

A new major glyph that reduced the demonic gateway's CD back down to 15 seconds.. but could only be used by party members and not all raid members. Would mean you would have to determine exactly the 4 people you want using each warlocks portal and organise the groups as much.

[Grubjuice]

A new major glyph that reduced the demonic gateway's CD back down to 15 seconds.. but could only be used by party members and not all raid members. Would mean you would have to determine exactly the 4 people you want using each warlocks portal and organise the groups as much.

that would be great,

i worry that the Kanrethad encounter will be really hard for players coming into it for the first time after 5.4 but before they gear up >ilvl500 if Gateways cooldown is increased

[Deleted]

A new major glyph that reduced the demonic gateway's CD back down to 15 seconds.. but could only be used by party members and not all raid members. Would mean you would have to determine exactly the 4 people you want using each warlocks portal and organise the groups as much.

The problem wasn't in pve though, it was in pvp.

[Grubjuice]

The problem wasn't in pve though, it was in pvp.

in that case they could increase the cooldown only in PvP settings, they have been diverging PvE and PvP mechanics throughout the last two expansions, it would be well within their capabilities.

[Werst]

PVP locks need gateway as an escape from mongoloid cleaves. The players on the lock's team it can be way too strong. They need to leave the 15 sec cd for the lock who cast the portal and 60 sec for everyone else.

Everyone can see the amp trinket is going to be a bis choice for all 3x specs. I think it will carry all of them as hard, if not harder, than UVLS carried early demo. By the time demo gets to 550'ish ilvl and counting losing EA glyph I wouldn't be surprised if we go amp + xxx and get rid of lei shen. Especially if you change your gearing to a crit > mast > haste setup which would also work with destro should they ever fix it to be raid worthy for 5.4 patch.