EU bans Fluroide, Americans call you a conspiracy theorist

[Vidpci]

As promised, I will edit this OP with some sources and attempt to answer some questions. I'm curious though why people don't seem to have a problem with this and most would actually prefer fluoride over natural water. I think the real argument here is should Government have the right to dictate which medications are placed in the public drinking water... but here goes.

I'll start with the comments about how fluoride supposedly isn't harmful in the drinking water because there simply isn't enough being added to be a problem.

The research team reports, "It is important to be aware of this serious problem and avoid the use of toothpaste and items that contain fluoride, particularly in children as they are more susceptible to the toxic effects of fluoride." (1)

"Fluoride can be toxic by ingesting one part per million (ppm), and the effects are not immediate, as they can take 20 years or more to become evident," they write.

Source.

The problem with that theory is that not only is it impossible to know just how much a person is drinking per day, but also, as this article suggests, the dangerous is that Fluoride accumulates over time. The long-term issues on the pineal gland can be read here:

In the 1990s, a British scientist, Jennifer Luke, discovered that fluoride accumulates to strikingly high levels in the pineal gland. (Luke 2001). The pineal gland is located between the two hemispheres of the brain and is responsible for the synthesis and secretion of the hormone melatonin. Melatonin maintains the body’s circadian rhythm (sleep-wake cycle), regulates the onset of puberty in females, and helps protect the body from cell damage caused by free radicals.

Source.

A theory here, one shared by some universities, is that melatonin disruption could lower immunity to cancer and accelerates aging.

Again, the problem here is that this is not something that's always been done, and it's a highly controversial subject is many areas. But the question remains: As a society, are we not responsible enough to choose which medications (or toxins) are placed in our drinking water, or do we need Government to dictate that? That really needs to be the discussion here. As it is, I find it simply amazing to see people throw around the word conspiracy for even suggesting that drinking natural water is a better solution.

Here are some numbers based on country (including EU):

As of 2002, there was no water fluoridation in China.
Less than 1% of Japan practices water fluoridation.
About 4% of the population of Vietnam has water fluoridation.
Austria has never implemented fluoridation.
Croatia does not fluoridate its water.
Fluoridated salt is available in France, and 3% of the population uses naturally fluoridated water, but the water is not artificially fluoridated.
Drinking water is not fluoridated in any part of Germany.
There is no water fluoridation in Greece.
Around 10% of the population of the United Kingdom receives fluoridated water.

Source.

So what we see around the world, aside from a few exceptions, is generally less than 10% of the population received fluoridated water. Now let's look at America:

As of May 2000, 42 of the 50 largest U.S. cities had water fluoridation.[81] In 2010, 66% of all U.S. residents and 74% of U.S. residents with access to community water systems receive fluoridated water.[82] In 2010, a U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention study determined that "40.7% of adolescents aged 12–15 had dental fluorosis [in 1999–2004]".

Source.

So why is America being hammered with this stuff while the rest of the world doesn't really seem to care? Australia seems to be in the same boat:

Australia now provides fluoridated water for 70% or more of the population in all states and territories. Many of Australia's drinking water supplies began fluoridation in the 1960s and 1970s. By 1984 almost 66% of the Australian population had access to fluoridated drinking water, represented by 850 towns and cities.

Source.

[fishface]

Uh, I Live in England and we most definitely have flouridated water.

[Vidpci]

Uh, I Live in England and we most definitely have flouridated water.

That's a shame, most of the EU has banned it. You should research the topic and try to get it removed as many have here in America (and the EU).

[Slant]

I invoke Goodwin's Law.

[Vidpci]

I invoke Goodwin's Law.

Unless it's already been invoked by the OP?

[Slant]

Unless it's already been invoked by the OP?

Well, he at least is the cause of me invoking it. Which kind of defaults this thread.

[Pendulous]

So, I knew absolutely nothing on the subject, so I looked it up on a site that feels trustworthy. I don't think any moderately intelligent person would dismiss the negative effects of fluoride as a conspiracy. Obviously, the government knows that too much is a bad thing. Also keep in mind that all water is going to contain SOME fluoride, unless it's somehow removed.

Your analogy is bad though. Assuming it helps with tooth decay, yes, it being in water would be a beneficial effect, since the liquid hits the teeth and the fluoride attaches to the enamel. Meanwhile, drinking sun screen does not touch the skin at all.

The only actual conspiracy I've seen, is that it's a form of brainwashing, because why not. And this conspiracy always tend to start, yes, you guessed it, with Hitler, which you so decided to include.

I don't know the legitimacy of the site you linked, but it appears that they have a habit of questioning scientific findings, and media. So....I don't know. Who is exactly calling who conspiracy theorists?

[Deleted]

You don't need fluoride in the water if you know how to use a toothbrush.

[Vidpci]

So, I knew absolutely nothing on the subject, so I looked it up on a site that feels trustworthy. I don't think any moderately intelligent person would dismiss the negative effects of fluoride as a conspiracy. Obviously, the government knows that too much is a bad thing. Also keep in mind that all water is going to contain SOME fluoride, unless it's somehow removed.

Your analogy is bad though. Assuming it helps with tooth decay, yes, it being in water would be a beneficial effect, since the liquid hits the teeth and the fluoride attaches to the enamel. Meanwhile, drinking sun screen does not touch the skin at all.

The only actual conspiracy I've seen, is that it's a form of brainwashing, because why not. And this conspiracy always tend to start, yes, you guessed it, with Hitler, which you so decided to include.

I don't know the legitimacy of the site you linked, but it appears that they have a habit of questioning scientific findings, and media. So....I don't know. Who is exactly calling who conspiracy theorists?

The site I linked was simply the first google hit I got, but the EU itself is actively against fluoride in the water, so it wasn't just something random... but America seems to not even care aside from the counties that have removed it. There are loads and tons of reputable sites that will give you all the information you want on the subject including harvard and stanford studies. You have to understand, when I link something like this, I usually get told to shut up stupid conspiracy person or whatever else, so it's nice to actually have someone bite and do a bit of research. That's basically where the title came from...

I really do hope that you look further into this, no matter where you're from.

[Deleted]

OP, have you read the whole article you posted?

It is a false claim that 98% of the Europeans have banned water fluoridation, and it's also misleading, because it implies it's the only form of fluoridation. Right there, in the link you provided.

Dental fluorosis is NOT a cause of tooth decay, it's merely an aesthetical concern.

Where is the research saying that water fluoridation is harmful to the environment or to humans?

And surely you are not confusing ionic F with molecular F, right?

[munkeyinorbit]

Fluoride is toxic to humans at a certain level. The amount of water needed to ingest enough fluoride to cause a toxic effect is so large that you would die from the amount of water you drink long before fluoride killing you. An intelligent person can then draw the conclusion that there is no scientific basis for banning fluoride from the water system as it actually has health benefits. There is no disputing this. This is fact.

The real issue is this. Is it ethical for the government to mass medicate the population? In the case of fluoride I believe it is. But what if government decided that antidepressants should be added to the water to make everyone happier? I guess in some small way, it is to help the overall health of the population but many people would be against it including myself.

If you want fluoride to be banned from your water systems, do it for the right reason. Not because you read a status update of someone who watched a tv program that had pseudo scientists give half truths about the dangers of things that they really have no idea about. Do it because you believe in your right to decide what you put into your own bodies.

Myself, I'm glad I have fluoride in my water system.

[Toccs]

Uh, I Live in England and we most definitely have flouridated water.

Only around 10% of people in England do though.

You must be using one of the following companies.

Anglian Water Services Ltd
Northumbrian Water Ltd
South Staffordshire Water plc
Severn Trent plc
United Utilities Water plc

[stumpy]

This is why I drink only distilled water, rainwater, and pure-grain alcohol.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/Notice.do?v...ckbox&visu=#DI

The EU ruling in question. Not once does it mention Flouride.

If flouride is banned under this ruling, then it is because it counts as a medicine when dissolved in drinking water, not because it is dangerous.

[Laize]

http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/qu...r-fluoridation



The idea here is that, even while multiple universities and medical trials proven fluoride is harmful, it's a necessary evil to prevent... tooth decay. Even though fluorosis is a leading cause of tooth decay. And of course, I'm the tin foil hat guy that hasn't been to the dentist in almost 20 years brushing with fluoride free toothpaste. But, you know... IT'S GOOD FER YE! Government says so. Never mind all those counties in America that have voted to remove it from the tap water, they're a bunch of tin foil hats like me.

/sarcasm

Placing fluoride in the drinking water to prevent tooth decay is like ingesting sun screen to prevent sun burn. Not to mention the trend of adding fluoride to the drinking water started in Nazi Germany. I guess Hitler wanted all those Jewish teeth to be nice and white before the gas chambers... *cough*

Friends from Denmark and Sweden tells me that while they do not have fluoridated drinking water, they most certainly have fluoridated toothpaste (Which is all you need to prevent tooth decay).

I mean... you do realize you have to eat like... almost 2 full tubes of toothpaste to receive any negative effects from consuming fluoride right? That's like eating 20 lbs of bananas and claiming you received a dose of radiation equivalent to an X-ray... and using that to claim bananas are bad for you.

And yes, bananas are radioactive.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

More like eating 100kg of brazil nuts, getting minor radiation poisoning and saying that brazil nuts should be banned because of that.

[Laize]

More like eating 100kg of brazil nuts, getting minor radiation poisoning and saying that brazil nuts should be banned because of that.

In terms of relative quantity for the appropriate toothpaste:banana ratio? Yes. (You will never see that term used again)

In terms of what's possible? At least it's possible to eat 20 lbs of bananas... in a day or two. If you really put your mind to it.

[Wildtree]

You don't need fluoride in the water if you know how to use a toothbrush.

Except. They didn't put fluoride in the water because of the teeth. It was to make the water clear. Swimming pools come to mind.

[Callude]

Oh look, it's a thread based on pseudo scientific bullshit and conspiracy theories.

First of all. The science on fluoridation is all pretty conclusive. Add a small amount to water and it greatly improves dental health. Add too much fluoride (many natural water sources naturally have amounts far higher than medically recommended) and it can have negative side effects. You know what that makes it like? EVERYTHING. Even water is toxic if you consume too much.

Secondly. Hitler and the Nazis didn't fluoridate water. And even if they did, how would that prove that fluoridation is bad and/or a conspiracy?

Third. The EU has not banned fluoridation. While it is true that most European countries do not use water fluoridation they haven't outright banned it. Many countries use alternatives (fluoride toothpaste for most. Fluoridated salt is quite popular in France, Germany and a few others) but most have just caved in to the incoherent ramblings of moronic conspiracy theorists.

I guess I'm just a pawn in the plans the New World Order or the Illuminati or whoever is supposedly behind fluoridation.

- - - Updated - - -

In terms of relative quantity for the appropriate toothpaste:banana ratio? Yes. (You will never see that term used again)

and it's a damn shame

[Deleted]

Except. They didn't put fluoride in the water because of the teeth. It was to make the water clear. Swimming pools come to mind.

I guess my point still stands, though?