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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by insanedruid View Post
    The 100% haste is given by the talent SotF, not the 6K breakpoint. I think you have mixed them up.
    Going from 4K to 6K gives you 1 tick but not 2 ticks to WG.
    And it gives 0 tick to rejuv if the rejuv is not buffed by SotF.

    While lb and efflo doesn't effectively have breakpoint haste does buff them.
    But the point is that going from 4K to 6K breakpoint is a tiny gain if not a lost in HPS.
    It's definitely not a huge gain.

    While sitting at 4.3K haste you might be wasting 1.3K haste but it doesn't necessarily mean that it must be a gain going for the next WG breakpoint.
    If you are sitting at 3143 haste would you go for the next WG breakpoint because you are wasting 100 haste?
    If you are sitting at 4343 haste would you go for the next WG breakpoint because you are wasting 1300 haste?
    If you are sitting at 6343 haste would you go for the next WG breakpoint because you are wasting 3300 haste?

    It is not about BIS or having wasted stat.
    It is that which breakpoint is the best for you current gear.

    I did the calculation before and found that it's a lost in HPS unless I have like 4500+ haste.
    Going from 0 haste to 6652 gives you 2 ticks. I was trying to keep it just like EVERY haste breakpoint card has it set-up so there is less confusion, looks like I failed to do that. As far as mixing up 100% haste and 21.43% haste, I did not mix them up. Insanedruid said "SotF increase the number of "base" ticks and thus makes the extra ticks less useful...You only get 1 tick from WG (SoTF or not) at 6652". Maybe I read that wrong - but I doubt it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thalur View Post
    That's a funny statement considering I switched to 13k haste when I had 40 ilvls less than today (around 535). And there was no Sha trinket.

    There is no point trying to maintain "a comfortable level of mastery", because the haste for the 13k breakpoint is simply better than mastery. If you have to decide between 13k haste and 0 mastery, and 3k haste and 10k mastery, the haste breakpoint wins.

    The deciding factor for the 13k breakpoint is if you can get it and maintain your level of spirit, and not skip (many) socket bonuses. Mastery has nothing to do with it.
    The 13k haste breakpoint is not better than 20% mastery. I am sorry, but I have no idea where you are getting this info from - in fact mastery is even more important if you are a 25m raider. Maybe it was because you cleared heroic ToT and had 535 ilvl from the previous tiers BiS where the 13k haste breakpoint was attainable. However those of us down here who are not clearing heroic content weekly (the other 99% of players who read these forums) are putting together gear from Timeless Isle, LFR's and normal modes. Telling these people that 0 mastery is fine as long as you have 13k haste at 535 ilvl is misleading, and just plain wrong.

  2. #242
    @Why the only things you get from the 6k breakpoint is 1 tick more for WG (with and without SotF), and one tick more for SotF-Rejuv. You also get slightly faster ticks for LB and Efflo, as these do not have a breakpoint.

    You keep saying that this very small increase is worth 2k mastery. This is completely wrong, you are sacrificing a lot of healing power.

    Btw. this topic has been discussed a few months ago with the clear result that no breakpoint between 3k and 13k is worth it. At all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Whydrood View Post
    The 13k haste breakpoint is not better than 20% mastery. I am sorry, but I have no idea where you are getting this info from - in fact mastery is even more important if you are a 25m raider. Maybe it was because you cleared heroic ToT and had 535 ilvl from the previous tiers BiS where the 13k haste breakpoint was attainable. However those of us down here who are not clearing heroic content weekly (the other 99% of players who read these forums) are putting together gear from Timeless Isle, LFR's and normal modes. Telling these people that 0 mastery is fine as long as you have 13k haste at 535 ilvl is misleading, and just plain wrong.
    Now I'm out of the discussion. I would still ask you to stop giving wrong advice to players looking for help, but you seem to be on some kind of crusade here. Only you are 6 months late to the party and seem to have missed all arguments, and I'm not going to iterate it all again.

    The 13k breakpoint is worth more than 10k mastery. If you do not believe this, go to EJ and read Hamlet's post about it (~ 6 months ago). Or do the math yourself. But stop spreading wrong information on this forum.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whydrood View Post
    Going from 0 haste to 6652 gives you 2 ticks.
    But no one has zero haste. We're comparing 4k haste to 6k haste, and the only thing you get is one tick each of Lifebloom (which you should be refreshing before it expires anyway, so breakpoints aren't really relevant), Regrowth (which most people have glyphed anyway) and Wild Growth. You also get an extra tick of Rejuvenation and Wild Growth when used with SotF. Going from 8 to 9 ticks of Wild Growth is a 12.5% increase in its healing done, for which you're giving up 4-5% of mastery.

    For that to be a worthwhile trade, Wild Growth has to contribute more than ~30% of your total healing. Looking at logs you'll find that it's usually around 15-20% of your total healing. I.e. you'll benefit more from staying at 4k than going for the 6.6k breakpoint.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thalur View Post
    The deciding factor for the 13k breakpoint is if you can get it and maintain your level of spirit, and not skip (many) socket bonuses. Mastery has nothing to do with it.
    Not necessarily. The value of the extra tick of Rejuvenation depends on how much it would tick for. It's a fixed cost of 10k secondary stats to gain a variable amount of healing. Whether that's worth it or not is going to depend on how much spell power, intellect, mastery and crit you have (as all of those affect how much that tick would heal for).
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  4. #244
    Greetings everyone!

    I am currently raiding 10N SoO and our group has so far progressed to 5/14. I've been flexing with a friend on another realm and in talking with his raid's resto druid (as well as reading some posts on here), have come to realize that I am probably using Ask Mr. Robot with the incorrect stat weights/caps.

    I just got 2 new pieces of gear last night and before I reforge/gem anything I was hoping to get your input on how I should optimize my toon? Theory crafting has never been my strong suit so I would appreciate insight about what haste cap to use (though I realize there is much debate going on regarding 6.6K vs. 13K). I would link to my armory page, however the forum rules prohibit me from posting a link until I post here a few times. :S My toon is Silymarin on the Cenarion Circle RP realm.

    Unfortunately I have only been blessed with 1 tier drop in all of my celestials/normal/flex/LFR runs this patch so I do not have additional pieces from my current set level to add (prior to 5.4 I was balance, so I have no resto tier from ToT). I'm also aware that I should probably change out my Healing Touch major glyph. For heals, the raid group is comprised of me and 2 disc priests (if the make-up of the raid matters at all to what glyph I should add).

    Thanks so much for your help!

  5. #245
    Given your gear, you should probably not try to go for more than 6652. Although a lot of folks say to reforge down to 3043, I always found it easier to stick to 6652 until I had enough base haste on my gear. A lower haste means you aren't going to need as much spirit, so if there is one thing I would recommend is set your weights to a lower spirit target. You shouldn't need to gem for pure spirit at all. Druid works very well with Disc (many fights I 2-heal with my Disc teammate). The HT glyph isn't that useful until you get your 2-pc. You also probably don't really need the glyph of rebirth (unless you have some people with low health pools who like to stand in Bad). Glyph of Regrowth or WG will probably be better bets. I change my glyphs around though depending on the fight. (The glyph of Regrowth actually make me sad; I remember when the HoT portion of Regrowth could last 21 secs and actually healed worth a damn.)

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Grayclaw View Post
    The HT glyph isn't that useful until you get your 2-pc...
    Question on the math here, paper napkin wise it seems that 2 stacks of the Sage Mender proc (from the T16 2-PC) makes HT a better direct heal (both in casting time and HPM) than Regrowth (Glyphed), is this correct?

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Alltat View Post
    But no one has zero haste.
    That wasn't the point. The point was to clear up the confusion caused by people using two separate sets of numbers. You get the first tick of WG at 860 haste, and the 2nd (which is where I got 2 ticks) at 6652.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alltat View Post
    We're comparing 4k haste to 6k haste, and the only thing you get is one tick each of Lifebloom (which you should be refreshing before it expires anyway, so breakpoints aren't really relevant), Regrowth (which most people have glyphed anyway) and Wild Growth. You also get an extra tick of Rejuvenation and Wild Growth when used with SotF. Going from 8 to 9 ticks of Wild Growth is a 12.5% increase in its healing done, for which you're giving up 4-5% of mastery.

    For that to be a worthwhile trade, Wild Growth has to contribute more than ~30% of your total healing. Looking at logs you'll find that it's usually around 15-20% of your total healing. I.e. you'll benefit more from staying at 4k than going for the 6.6k breakpoint.
    You seem to be missing the fact that WG and Efflo have the same tick added at 6652. WG and Efflo combined do (according to my last raid on my druid with 6652 haste) 32% of my healing, beating out Rejuv by a full percentage point. Add whatever percentage LB does, and however many hastened rejuvs are thrown in there and it (as I said previously) starts adding up to a pretty nice boost in healing. Much more than 4-5%.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whydrood View Post
    You seem to be missing the fact that WG and Efflo have the same tick added at 6652. WG and Efflo combined do (according to my last raid on my druid with 6652 haste) 32% of my healing, beating out Rejuv by a full percentage point. Add whatever percentage LB does, and however many hastened rejuvs are thrown in there and it (as I said previously) starts adding up to a pretty nice boost in healing. Much more than 4-5%.
    Efflo scales continuously with haste now so I don't know why you're talking about added ticks at a fixed haste value. Also note the % increase in healing for efflo when going from 4k haste to 6k haste is much less than the 12.5% increase on WG (due to the haste from ~1k to 4k being almost useless for WG without being at 6k). Now to be honest I really don't feel like actually working out how much faster efflo/LB will tick due to the extra 2k haste however personally I would never go for the 6k haste bp if I could get down to 4k haste.

    Also note that extra rejuvs will require more mana and consequently more spirit.

    Edit: Also note that running SotF tends to devalue haste a little, especially its effect on WG.
    Last edited by adynn; 2013-11-21 at 01:51 AM.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Whydrood View Post
    That wasn't the point. The point was to clear up the confusion caused by people using two separate sets of numbers. You get the first tick of WG at 860 haste, and the 2nd (which is where I got 2 ticks) at 6652.



    You seem to be missing the fact that WG and Efflo have the same tick added at 6652. WG and Efflo combined do (according to my last raid on my druid with 6652 haste) 32% of my healing, beating out Rejuv by a full percentage point. Add whatever percentage LB does, and however many hastened rejuvs are thrown in there and it (as I said previously) starts adding up to a pretty nice boost in healing. Much more than 4-5%.
    Really, how did you work out the 4-5% increase in overall healing by going from 4K haste to the 6652 haste?

    It's 5.7% increase to Efflo and LB, 12.5% to WG. (I don't use SotF)
    Let me use 10-man Norushen(H) as an example. In this fight the healing done by WG/EFFLO/LB is high so it "favors" the 6.6K build.
    Below are the percentage of heal done by spells:
    WG: 11.8%
    LB: 12.1%
    EFFLO: 21.1%

    So by going from 4K to 6.6K the increase is
    WG: 11.8%*12.5% = 1.475%
    LB:12.1%*5.7% =0.69%
    EFFLO: 21.1%*5.7% = 1.2%

    total: 3.365%

    On the other hand if you stay at 4K haste the extra 2,652 stat goes to mastery.
    That would be 5.5% mastery.
    At 50% mastery, the 2652 mastery will be 3.68% which is greater than 3.365% provided by 6.6K haste build.
    So even in fight that WG/EFFLO/LB heals a lot the 4K haste still beats the 6.6K bp by a little.

    Now you may say that your WG heals a lot more by using SotF but I can tell you that it doesn't matter much.
    It is because the 6.6K bp gives you 1 extra tick per target per WG cast, SotF or not. So the gain will be about the same relative to total healing done.

    Edit: fixed typo.
    Last edited by insanedruid; 2013-11-21 at 06:52 AM.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by insanedruid View Post
    Now you may say that your WG heals a lot more by using SotF but I can't tell you that it doesn't matter much.
    It is because the 6.6K bp gives you 1 extra tick per target per WG cast, SotF or not. So the gain will be about the same relative to total healing done.
    I just wanted to point this out again; adding one tick to a WG that already has 16 ticks means that you're dropping from a 12.5% increase in healing each wild growth to a 6.25% increase in healing. Now if half your WG's are SotF-enabled, then you're probably looking at <9% increased WG healing from the 6k bp rather than 4k (note the SotF WG will heal for considerably more than the normal WG which means you shouldn't just average the 6.25 and 12.5%).

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by adynn View Post
    I just wanted to point this out again; adding one tick to a WG that already has 16 ticks means that you're dropping from a 12.5% increase in healing each wild growth to a 6.25% increase in healing. Now if half your WG's are SotF-enabled, then you're probably looking at <9% increased WG healing from the 6k bp rather than 4k (note the SotF WG will heal for considerably more than the normal WG which means you shouldn't just average the 6.25 and 12.5%).
    My calculation is based on not spec'ing into SotF as mentioned in the post.
    What I wanted to say was that if you are specing into SotF the portion of healing done by WG will increase so you can't use the 12.5% increase from non-SotF.
    You can't use the 6.25% either because not every of the WG cast gets the SotF buff as you want to use WG on CD.

    But if you think in a different way the 6.6K bp will gives you about the same absolute amount of healing, no matter you spec into SotF or not.
    In my case I didn't spec into SotF. The 6.6K bp will increase WG's healing equal to 1.475% of total healing.
    Even if I had speced into SotF the 6.6K bp will still increase WG's heal by about 1.475% of total healing.

  12. #252
    Hello everyone.

    I have a question, because I can't decide... How good is the T16 4p bonus please ?

    I have legs, shoulders and chest. I looted the 528 LFR gloves.
    I have http://www.wowhead.com/item=103859 2/2 ilevel 561.

    What will be the best : 528 LFR T16 gloves and the 4P bonus or no bonus and keeping the 561 gloves ?
    Is it worth losing the extra stats on the 561 to have the T16 4p bonus ?

    My ilevel is 554. We're doing Normal.

    Sorry for my bad english and thank you for your answers.

  13. #253
    Just wondering what other Tailor Resto Druids are doing in terms of cloak enchant, Lightweave or Darkweave and how does it effect your stat choices? I'm personally using Darkweave and then setting my Spirit 500 below what I usually would. AMR suggests to use Lightweave but I'm not actually sure if that's better to use or if it just defaults to that, upon first glance it doesn't seem good since you cannot control when it procs so it may be completely wasted whereas the Spirit proc is always going to be useful.

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    Question on the math here, paper napkin wise it seems that 2 stacks of the Sage Mender proc (from the T16 2-PC) makes HT a better direct heal (both in casting time and HPM) than Regrowth (Glyphed), is this correct?
    It's not entirely correct, no. Glyphed Regrowth will always heal for more than Healing Touch if you factor in Living Seed. While glyphed RG doesn't scale with your crit rating, it does scale with the crit multiplier bonus from the Prismatic Prison of Pride. Since HT triggers the global cooldown even at five stacks of Sage Mender, RG will always do higher HPS than HT. Sage Mender can make HT more mana efficient than RG and the spell being instant has obvious utility, but it'll still heal for less.

    Also note that Glyph of Healing Touch is fairly useless now that Swiftmend doesn't proc Efflorescence anymore. Without SotF there's not much point in being able to use it slightly more often, and with SotF you'll usually be saving Swiftmend until WG is about to come off cooldown anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whydrood View Post
    You seem to be missing the fact that WG and Efflo have the same tick added at 6652. WG and Efflo combined do (according to my last raid on my druid with 6652 haste) 32% of my healing, beating out Rejuv by a full percentage point. Add whatever percentage LB does, and however many hastened rejuvs are thrown in there and it (as I said previously) starts adding up to a pretty nice boost in healing. Much more than 4-5%.
    Efflorescence doesn't have any breakpoints when glyphed. Any breakpoints you find in tables are refering to the unglyphed pre-5.4 version. It scales linearly with haste. Also note that Efflorescence benefits from mastery, meaning you won't see much difference in Efflorescence healing regardless of how you gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by insanedruid View Post
    My calculation is based on not spec'ing into SotF as mentioned in the post.
    What I wanted to say was that if you are specing into SotF the portion of healing done by WG will increase so you can't use the 12.5% increase from non-SotF.
    You can't use the 6.25% either because not every of the WG cast gets the SotF buff as you want to use WG on CD.
    Assuming you cast WG on cooldown, you'll have SotF up for every second one, so just take the average of 12.5% and 6.25% (i.e. 9.38%). On any fight where you don't cast WG on cooldown, your SotF uptime for it will obviously be higher and the value will creep closer to 6.25%.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by insanedruid View Post
    Now you may say that your WG heals a lot more by using SotF but I can tell you that it doesn't matter much.
    It is because the 6.6K bp gives you 1 extra tick per target per WG cast, SotF or not. So the gain will be about the same relative to total healing done.

    Edit: fixed typo.
    Even if you don't use SoTF, with incarnation you have at least 1 minute per fight where WG is going to tick on 2 extra targets (at least 2 casts, 3 if you are extremely quick), and you can have multiple LB's rolling for the duration of Incarnation (and a bit beyond). You can't just say "I'm not using SoTF so the math isn't true and there still isn't a benefit." Sure if you were skipping all of the level 60 talents than I would agree, mastery would be better than 6652. However that's never the case, and if it is, you are in the wrong forum. I haven't even brought up the 0.1s you lose off the GCD (which matters more with Incarnation). That is also an extra tick on FoN's Efflo. Depending on how you heal, these benefits more than make up for the 0.315% healing you would gain from the 2652 mastery you used in your math (not sure about FoN - never really used it), regardless of what talent you decide on.

    So according to your math:
    In a vacuum where you use no talents on the lvl 60 tier, Mastery is 0.315% better.
    In every other case (i.e. when you actually use a talent and factor in whatever gains you get from those talents), 6652 is better. Someone is going to have to check my math on that though and figure it out.

  16. #256
    what always scales with haste-
    LB
    efflo
    nourish (lol)
    regrowth
    healing touch (also lol)
    your gcd on instant spells that aren't rejuv (which is basically lifebloom refresh, swiftmend, instant healing touches from 2p, blooms, and mushroom plant)

    what doesn't-
    revuv (generally at least 25% of your healing, probably more)
    its gcd (a huge part of this, because that's where we spend most of our time, and this is another reason why we can't just take infinite haste)
    wild growth
    tranq ticks
    the healing on your direct heals will be lowered accordingly, despite the cast times and gcd's being shorter
    incarnation lifeblooms

    so yes, we're losing out on on about 30-40% of haste's benefit, I can't remember quite how much haste scales at, but w/e,

    however, we have to remember, our mastery scaling is linear and by the time you're in SoO gear,
    you should have so much that the only reason you won't be switching to crit will be to it not scaling with glyphed regrowth and bloom

    overall result, until you're able to hit 13k, our scaling with pretty much all secondary stats goes down the shitter so the difference isn't too big if you do literally take any stat at that point (hell, gemming int might be doable at this point, but I'd need to actually do math and I'm tired)

    however if you do actually lb spam in tree of life, 6.6k might actually be better, but sotf will generally be stronger though and rejuv's gcd is locked and you should be aware that unless you're using it on thok right around when dmg starts going up some, the blooms will be mostly overhealing and the hot portion itself is fairly weak too and even then it would've been better to just take sotf or have held tree for later to push more
    also note 6k has lower overhealing potential due to shorter cast times and more of your healing being smart healing (efflo+wg) because rejuv overhealing can be pretty lol is some situations

    and overall, 3k is still better, so unless too many of your pieces have innate haste, you're probably slightly better off going for 3k, but 6k isn't completely unviable, although somewhat wasteful (due to spending more mana on things that aren't rejuv) and always remember that the more haste you take, the less mastery you'll have, making your crit pieces relatively worse and mastery relatively more valuable

    also remember that your actual results will be situational on the fight depending on overhealing potential, but 3k favors on and off damage more (which honestly, siege has a lot of in normal where this'll be a more relative choice) and performs about the same in constant damage too and our main healing spell (rejuv, not scaling with an investment of 3k of our stats isn't the best choice)

    the end result is just try and get some haste pieces and go for 13k so people can shut up and if you aren't able to hit it yet, the difference is so minor that you can try each for a week and use whichever, and that if you have to sit at 6k because you got too many pieces with haste, but have so few gem slots you can't go for 13k, you haven't lost out
    Last edited by ryklin; 2013-11-21 at 01:44 PM.

  17. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alltat View Post
    Assuming you cast WG on cooldown, you'll have SotF up for every second one, so just take the average of 12.5% and 6.25% (i.e. 9.38%). On any fight where you don't cast WG on cooldown, your SotF uptime for it will obviously be higher and the value will creep closer to 6.25%.
    I briefly touched on this before; you don't want to simply average the two increases, what you'll want to do is take a weighted average;
    Now SotF-WG heals for a good chunk more than normal WG and you're using the same number of each, so;
    Because WG has 17 ticks with SotF and 9 without, so the potential percentage increase on WG's healing will be;
    17/26*6.25%+9/26*12.5%=~8.4% increased WG healing, note the difference to the average of the two numbers which is ~9.5%.

  18. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whydrood View Post
    In a vacuum where you use no talents on the lvl 60 tier, Mastery is 0.315% better.
    In every other case (i.e. when you actually use a talent and factor in whatever gains you get from those talents), 6652 is better. Someone is going to have to check my math on that though and figure it out.
    Whether or not you use SotF shouldn't matter, aside from affecting WG's contribution to your total healing. Doubling the number doesn't affect the relative value of that extra tick. The only case where SotF makes a difference is if you're above 5176 (first extra SotF WG tick) but below 6652 (second extra SotF WG tick), in which case using SotF favors not getting more haste. That doesn't matter in this case, though. The 0.315% figure should apply regardless of talents. Note that the breakdown used in that example was from heroic Norushen, which is probably the most haste-friendly fight in the current tier. Most other fights will see less healing done by Efflorescence and Wild Growth and more healing from Rejuvenation.

    The same goes for Incarnation: it affects WG's contribution to your total healing, but otherwise makes no difference. If you use Incarnation on a fight, just put your spell breakdown numbers into the equation and proceed as before.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by bargio View Post
    Hello everyone.

    I have a question, because I can't decide... How good is the T16 4p bonus please ?

    I have legs, shoulders and chest. I looted the 528 LFR gloves.
    I have http://www.wowhead.com/item=103859 2/2 ilevel 561.

    What will be the best : 528 LFR T16 gloves and the 4P bonus or no bonus and keeping the 561 gloves ?
    Is it worth losing the extra stats on the 561 to have the T16 4p bonus ?

    My ilevel is 554. We're doing Normal.

    Sorry for my bad english and thank you for your answers.
    The 561 gloves you looted have two yellow sockets and a crap ton of Crit. Crit is technically a resto druid's worst stat. The tier gloves have two red slots and a lot of haste. This, on top of the ~2% increase to healing the t164p gives you, I would strongly recommend you toss the 561 gloves and take your four piece. The tier gloves will also help you reach the 13163 haste break point (if you're going for it).
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    judging 25man raiding by LFR standards saying it requires no coordination, is like saying 5mans require cheese sandwiches because i like turtles.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Whydrood View Post
    Even if you don't use SoTF, with incarnation you have at least 1 minute per fight where WG is going to tick on 2 extra targets (at least 2 casts, 3 if you are extremely quick), and you can have multiple LB's rolling for the duration of Incarnation (and a bit beyond). You can't just say "I'm not using SoTF so the math isn't true and there still isn't a benefit." Sure if you were skipping all of the level 60 talents than I would agree, mastery would be better than 6652. However that's never the case, and if it is, you are in the wrong forum. I haven't even brought up the 0.1s you lose off the GCD (which matters more with Incarnation). That is also an extra tick on FoN's Efflo. Depending on how you heal, these benefits more than make up for the 0.315% healing you would gain from the 2652 mastery you used in your math (not sure about FoN - never really used it), regardless of what talent you decide on.

    So according to your math:
    In a vacuum where you use no talents on the lvl 60 tier, Mastery is 0.315% better.
    In every other case (i.e. when you actually use a talent and factor in whatever gains you get from those talents), 6652 is better. Someone is going to have to check my math on that though and figure it out.
    Did you really read my post?
    I didn't say "I'm not using SoTF so the math isn't true and there still isn't a benefit."
    What I say is that base on the math the benefit of the 6.6K breakpoint is the same if you spec into SotF or not.(base on my assumption)
    And you didn't provide any math anyways.

    For the assumption I mean you cast the same number of WG with or without SotF.
    With the same number of WG cast the benefit of the 6.6K breakpoint is the same, SotF or not.

    Let's say the 6.6K bp gives you 10K hps when you are not specing into SotF.
    It will also gives you about 10K hps if you spec into SotF.
    Why? because the 6.6K gives you 1 extra tick per target per WG cast, specing into SotF doesn't change this fact.
    The same number of ticks, the same value of ticks so the same amount of extra heal by the 6.6K bp.
    (edit: that's ignored the fact that the value of tick as well as the number of target are increased during incarnation
    and the extra rejuv tick be SotF, but that would be tiny amount of extra heal anyways)

    What makes you think that 6.6K bp is even better with SotF? Do you have any math to support your claim?
    You just say it's better and didn't provide any proof not even data....

    Also I picked norushen 10H which has a high amount of heal done by lb/efflo/wg.
    On average healing done by lb/efflo/wg is 34% compare to 45% in norushen.
    So on average it would even more favor the 4K build more.

    Even in some situitions where the 6.6K build is better it's still just a tiny increase.
    Last edited by insanedruid; 2013-11-22 at 07:49 AM.

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