Last edited by Whydrood; 2013-11-18 at 05:01 PM.
@Why the only things you get from the 6k breakpoint is 1 tick more for WG (with and without SotF), and one tick more for SotF-Rejuv. You also get slightly faster ticks for LB and Efflo, as these do not have a breakpoint.
You keep saying that this very small increase is worth 2k mastery. This is completely wrong, you are sacrificing a lot of healing power.
Btw. this topic has been discussed a few months ago with the clear result that no breakpoint between 3k and 13k is worth it. At all.
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The 13k breakpoint is worth more than 10k mastery. If you do not believe this, go to EJ and read Hamlet's post about it (~ 6 months ago). Or do the math yourself. But stop spreading wrong information on this forum.
For that to be a worthwhile trade, Wild Growth has to contribute more than ~30% of your total healing. Looking at logs you'll find that it's usually around 15-20% of your total healing. I.e. you'll benefit more from staying at 4k than going for the 6.6k breakpoint.
Diplomacy is just war by other means.
I am currently raiding 10N SoO and our group has so far progressed to 5/14. I've been flexing with a friend on another realm and in talking with his raid's resto druid (as well as reading some posts on here), have come to realize that I am probably using Ask Mr. Robot with the incorrect stat weights/caps.
I just got 2 new pieces of gear last night and before I reforge/gem anything I was hoping to get your input on how I should optimize my toon? Theory crafting has never been my strong suit so I would appreciate insight about what haste cap to use (though I realize there is much debate going on regarding 6.6K vs. 13K). I would link to my armory page, however the forum rules prohibit me from posting a link until I post here a few times. :S My toon is Silymarin on the Cenarion Circle RP realm.
Unfortunately I have only been blessed with 1 tier drop in all of my celestials/normal/flex/LFR runs this patch so I do not have additional pieces from my current set level to add (prior to 5.4 I was balance, so I have no resto tier from ToT). I'm also aware that I should probably change out my Healing Touch major glyph. For heals, the raid group is comprised of me and 2 disc priests (if the make-up of the raid matters at all to what glyph I should add).
Thanks so much for your help!
Given your gear, you should probably not try to go for more than 6652. Although a lot of folks say to reforge down to 3043, I always found it easier to stick to 6652 until I had enough base haste on my gear. A lower haste means you aren't going to need as much spirit, so if there is one thing I would recommend is set your weights to a lower spirit target. You shouldn't need to gem for pure spirit at all. Druid works very well with Disc (many fights I 2-heal with my Disc teammate). The HT glyph isn't that useful until you get your 2-pc. You also probably don't really need the glyph of rebirth (unless you have some people with low health pools who like to stand in Bad). Glyph of Regrowth or WG will probably be better bets. I change my glyphs around though depending on the fight. (The glyph of Regrowth actually make me sad; I remember when the HoT portion of Regrowth could last 21 secs and actually healed worth a damn.)
Also note that extra rejuvs will require more mana and consequently more spirit.
Edit: Also note that running SotF tends to devalue haste a little, especially its effect on WG.
Last edited by adynn; 2013-11-21 at 01:51 AM.
It's 5.7% increase to Efflo and LB, 12.5% to WG. (I don't use SotF)
Let me use 10-man Norushen(H) as an example. In this fight the healing done by WG/EFFLO/LB is high so it "favors" the 6.6K build.
Below are the percentage of heal done by spells:
So by going from 4K to 6.6K the increase is
WG: 11.8%*12.5% = 1.475%
EFFLO: 21.1%*5.7% = 1.2%
On the other hand if you stay at 4K haste the extra 2,652 stat goes to mastery.
That would be 5.5% mastery.
At 50% mastery, the 2652 mastery will be 3.68% which is greater than 3.365% provided by 6.6K haste build.
So even in fight that WG/EFFLO/LB heals a lot the 4K haste still beats the 6.6K bp by a little.
Now you may say that your WG heals a lot more by using SotF but I can tell you that it doesn't matter much.
It is because the 6.6K bp gives you 1 extra tick per target per WG cast, SotF or not. So the gain will be about the same relative to total healing done.
Edit: fixed typo.
Last edited by insanedruid; 2013-11-21 at 06:52 AM.
What I wanted to say was that if you are specing into SotF the portion of healing done by WG will increase so you can't use the 12.5% increase from non-SotF.
You can't use the 6.25% either because not every of the WG cast gets the SotF buff as you want to use WG on CD.
But if you think in a different way the 6.6K bp will gives you about the same absolute amount of healing, no matter you spec into SotF or not.
In my case I didn't spec into SotF. The 6.6K bp will increase WG's healing equal to 1.475% of total healing.
Even if I had speced into SotF the 6.6K bp will still increase WG's heal by about 1.475% of total healing.
I have a question, because I can't decide... How good is the T16 4p bonus please ?
I have legs, shoulders and chest. I looted the 528 LFR gloves.
I have http://www.wowhead.com/item=103859 2/2 ilevel 561.
What will be the best : 528 LFR T16 gloves and the 4P bonus or no bonus and keeping the 561 gloves ?
Is it worth losing the extra stats on the 561 to have the T16 4p bonus ?
My ilevel is 554. We're doing Normal.
Sorry for my bad english and thank you for your answers.
Just wondering what other Tailor Resto Druids are doing in terms of cloak enchant, Lightweave or Darkweave and how does it effect your stat choices? I'm personally using Darkweave and then setting my Spirit 500 below what I usually would. AMR suggests to use Lightweave but I'm not actually sure if that's better to use or if it just defaults to that, upon first glance it doesn't seem good since you cannot control when it procs so it may be completely wasted whereas the Spirit proc is always going to be useful.
Also note that Glyph of Healing Touch is fairly useless now that Swiftmend doesn't proc Efflorescence anymore. Without SotF there's not much point in being able to use it slightly more often, and with SotF you'll usually be saving Swiftmend until WG is about to come off cooldown anyway.
Diplomacy is just war by other means.
So according to your math:
In a vacuum where you use no talents on the lvl 60 tier, Mastery is 0.315% better.
In every other case (i.e. when you actually use a talent and factor in whatever gains you get from those talents), 6652 is better. Someone is going to have to check my math on that though and figure it out.
what always scales with haste-
healing touch (also lol)
your gcd on instant spells that aren't rejuv (which is basically lifebloom refresh, swiftmend, instant healing touches from 2p, blooms, and mushroom plant)
revuv (generally at least 25% of your healing, probably more)
its gcd (a huge part of this, because that's where we spend most of our time, and this is another reason why we can't just take infinite haste)
the healing on your direct heals will be lowered accordingly, despite the cast times and gcd's being shorter
so yes, we're losing out on on about 30-40% of haste's benefit, I can't remember quite how much haste scales at, but w/e,
however, we have to remember, our mastery scaling is linear and by the time you're in SoO gear,
you should have so much that the only reason you won't be switching to crit will be to it not scaling with glyphed regrowth and bloom
overall result, until you're able to hit 13k, our scaling with pretty much all secondary stats goes down the shitter so the difference isn't too big if you do literally take any stat at that point (hell, gemming int might be doable at this point, but I'd need to actually do math and I'm tired)
however if you do actually lb spam in tree of life, 6.6k might actually be better, but sotf will generally be stronger though and rejuv's gcd is locked and you should be aware that unless you're using it on thok right around when dmg starts going up some, the blooms will be mostly overhealing and the hot portion itself is fairly weak too and even then it would've been better to just take sotf or have held tree for later to push more
also note 6k has lower overhealing potential due to shorter cast times and more of your healing being smart healing (efflo+wg) because rejuv overhealing can be pretty lol is some situations
and overall, 3k is still better, so unless too many of your pieces have innate haste, you're probably slightly better off going for 3k, but 6k isn't completely unviable, although somewhat wasteful (due to spending more mana on things that aren't rejuv) and always remember that the more haste you take, the less mastery you'll have, making your crit pieces relatively worse and mastery relatively more valuable
also remember that your actual results will be situational on the fight depending on overhealing potential, but 3k favors on and off damage more (which honestly, siege has a lot of in normal where this'll be a more relative choice) and performs about the same in constant damage too and our main healing spell (rejuv, not scaling with an investment of 3k of our stats isn't the best choice)
the end result is just try and get some haste pieces and go for 13k so people can shut up and if you aren't able to hit it yet, the difference is so minor that you can try each for a week and use whichever, and that if you have to sit at 6k because you got too many pieces with haste, but have so few gem slots you can't go for 13k, you haven't lost out
Last edited by ryklin; 2013-11-21 at 01:44 PM.
Now SotF-WG heals for a good chunk more than normal WG and you're using the same number of each, so;
Because WG has 17 ticks with SotF and 9 without, so the potential percentage increase on WG's healing will be;
17/26*6.25%+9/26*12.5%=~8.4% increased WG healing, note the difference to the average of the two numbers which is ~9.5%.
The same goes for Incarnation: it affects WG's contribution to your total healing, but otherwise makes no difference. If you use Incarnation on a fight, just put your spell breakdown numbers into the equation and proceed as before.
Diplomacy is just war by other means.
I didn't say "I'm not using SoTF so the math isn't true and there still isn't a benefit."
What I say is that base on the math the benefit of the 6.6K breakpoint is the same if you spec into SotF or not.(base on my assumption)
And you didn't provide any math anyways.
For the assumption I mean you cast the same number of WG with or without SotF.
With the same number of WG cast the benefit of the 6.6K breakpoint is the same, SotF or not.
Let's say the 6.6K bp gives you 10K hps when you are not specing into SotF.
It will also gives you about 10K hps if you spec into SotF.
Why? because the 6.6K gives you 1 extra tick per target per WG cast, specing into SotF doesn't change this fact.
The same number of ticks, the same value of ticks so the same amount of extra heal by the 6.6K bp.
(edit: that's ignored the fact that the value of tick as well as the number of target are increased during incarnation
and the extra rejuv tick be SotF, but that would be tiny amount of extra heal anyways)
What makes you think that 6.6K bp is even better with SotF? Do you have any math to support your claim?
You just say it's better and didn't provide any proof not even data....
Also I picked norushen 10H which has a high amount of heal done by lb/efflo/wg.
On average healing done by lb/efflo/wg is 34% compare to 45% in norushen.
So on average it would even more favor the 4K build more.
Even in some situitions where the 6.6K build is better it's still just a tiny increase.
Last edited by insanedruid; 2013-11-22 at 07:49 AM.