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  1. #441
    Is there a transcript for this interview anywhere? The sound seems low on the recording, and I'm having a hard time hearing everything (of course it doesn't help that I'm literally half deaf :/). A good synopsis of the important points would suffice, too.

  2. #442
    Seriously, how can Alliance players not be happy about killing Garrosh?

    Do you really believe you would take orgrimmar?
    How would you feel if the horde took stormwind, or placed a floating fortress over it?

    People forget that Vanilla was all about alliance, that the changes in some zones ownership was made to balance leveling zone number of both factions.

    So why should you win things that were given to the horde so things were balanced?
    All alliance wants is unbalance again.

    Yes the story is horde driven right now? In part yes, but Alduin is also big part of the story as i see right now.

    In fact i would be much more proud if i was an alliance player, then i'm as a horde one right now.
    Being right, doing what is good, is a good thing, it something to feel proud about.

    If i was alliance player i would completely vote for leaving orgrimmar when the siege ends, and give it back to the orcs.
    First because not doing so would cause another war on the spot, and more casualities, in a territory where they have advantage, since they have Thunderbluff near to give then support.

    (Remember alliance is only being able to take orgrimmar, because Thunderbluff is not helping ogrimmar, and because the rebels are against garrosh too, if it wasn't for that alliance would have their ass handed to them like the last time.)
    (The same way horde would have their ass handed to them should they attack stormwind, with Ironforge near to give then support.)


    And second because giving it back to the Orcs would show superiority, honor, and desire to meet then at the battlefield in a fair and proud way when the time for battle comes again.
    Simple thinking about taking orgrimmar would end enslaving orcs again, and we know where this story ends right?
    This would be the worse possible way to solve this.

    For the Alliance the best thing they can do is open diplomatic channels with the Horde, and try to establish more mutual agreements, create some peace time, and let the conflicts for the future.
    Either that or go on an all out war against the rebels on their land, plus the Forsaken to backstab then, now free of the Kor'Kron, and the Tauren there.

    Remember that Wrathion assumes it would take roughly ONE YEAR for the combined forces of the alliance, with orgrimmar TAKEN, and the rebels siding enslaved, to even fully take Thunder Bluff.
    And this was assuming that the Alliance would not slaughter the horde, but assimilate it, think about what would happen if they started another war on the spot...

  3. #443
    After watching what the Alliance fist-pumping moment is supposed to be from David's mind, I have to admit that perhaps some of us Alliance players aren't taking this as seriously as we should. We are setting the tempo in this war. We have been handing the Horde defeats, even if they don't feel quite as spectacular as we'd like, and we are going into their Capital to kick their leader's ass and tell them who we'll allow to be Warchief, someone we can negotiate with in good faith and not have to worry about flipping out and going to war with us again.

    Not only that, but we're killing a BUNCH of Orcs during all of this, as well as blasting through a ton of Orgrimmar's defensive and offensive capabilities. Yes, we're doing it with the help of some members of the Horde, but we're still kicking their butts all over the place. In short, we win the war. That seems like a fist-pump moment to me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Protar View Post
    Just some random thoughts on the interview:

    Firstly the faction bias here is pretty clear. The sad thing is Kosak doesn't even seem to be able to comprehend that there's a problem with the Alliance side of the story and this is coming from someone who mostly plays Horde. What do we want? What I'd like is an outcome for the Siege that makes sense; i.e The Alliance occupies Orgrimmar and Varian is stationed in Garrosh' place for one patch. Then he selects a new Warchief and we're left with a few 7th Legion guards and maybe Anduin hanging out in Orgrimmar. Also I'd like to see the Alliance victories represented in the game, even if just through phased quests at high level and not in the game world at large. That would be logical and it would be Fist-pumpy.

    I think Kosak is being coy about Tirisfal. Previous answers to that question made it appear as though they had a lot more specifically planned for Tirisfal. I'm going with Tyr being under there. I mean next time you say Tirisfal blend the words a bit. Sounds a lot like Tyr's fall to me.

    I would have liked Dalaran floating above Orgrimmar. The technical difficulties make no sense. They didn't have to move the physical in-game city above Orgrimmar, they could have just had an unreachable animation in the Skybox and maybe in a couple of fights that mana barrages would have been a mechanic. Jaina or Vereesa needn't even appear in person, just a little acknowledgment that the Alliance pretty much has it's own Deathstar would be nice. As for the "problem" that it wouldn't fit with the tone of the Dungeon kind of falls apart now that everyone is saying how they wanted Dalaran there.

    Disappointed at the shaky answers regarding Draenei lore. Really hope we get some more lore for them next Xpac.
    At the very least, I do really love the idea of Anduin stationed in Orgrimmar permanently with some guards as Alliance Ambassador. That would be pretty freakin' sweet. Of course, having Alliance raiders come in and slaughter people around him while he stands around doing nothing, or solo Alliance members being killed at his feet... well, that would be kind of silly.

    Having Dalaran floating there and sending down mana barrages would've been awesoooome~! Or even if they were just fighting off Orgrimmar's aerial troops, that would've been pretty damn sweet. If we don't get that, I hope we see dog-fights with our gunships and gyrocopters and such above the skies.

    Maybe a Horde ambassador in Stormwind City would work too?
    Last edited by AlarStormbringer; 2013-08-27 at 12:30 PM.

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  4. #444
    Quote Originally Posted by AlarStormbringer View Post

    Of course, having Alliance raiders come in and slaughter people around him while he stands around doing nothing, or solo Alliance members being killed at his feet... well, that would be kind of silly.
    Hey- -so far such awkwardness has managed to 'work' in-game - like insisting that Malfurion should remain next to his soulless sla... um... next to his wife -especially with her getting chopped to bits under his nose by Hordies.

  5. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chudah View Post
    Is there a transcript for this interview anywhere? The sound seems low on the recording, and I'm having a hard time hearing everything (of course it doesn't help that I'm literally half deaf :/). A good synopsis of the important points would suffice, too.
    I'm surprised this didn't qualify for front page...


    5.4:
    Are you still happy with announcing Garrosh's defeat as early as you did?
    They announced it because of confusion over the "lack of a final boss." Players thought it was a silly expansion, when Blizz clearly had all this epic stuff planned. Kosak does think it was the right call, even if it felt spoiler-ey.

    Metzen mentioned at launch that this expansion was the build up to the war - is this still the case and bigger conflict is coming? Or is this the actual war now?
    Pretty sure this is the war. Metzen may have been talking about patch 5.0 being the prelude to the war in 5.1-5.4.

    Alliance fist pump moment - it was promised - what is it?
    Stopped Garrosh in 5.1, purged Dalaran of the Horde, Horde fell apart as the Alliance grew together, then they march into Orgrimmar and kill Garrosh. The Alliance is changing the world in MoP, it can't really get much bigger without alienating the Horde playerbase.
    "Pump some fists as you kill every Orc in Orgrimmar!"

    What is the moment (in your mind) when Garrosh "becomes a bad guy", seems like he just did all the sudden?
    Regarding the "YOU ARE DISMISSED" moment, the dude totally wasted a Mana Bomb. Garrosh never really made a right turn to evil, it was progressing all along since Thrall planted the seed of Pride back in BC. Becomes a war leader, takes over, gains followers, becomes more brash in Twilight Highlands. More power, more authority, and he feels like he hasn't changed but the Horde has changed.
    No, he is not a dreadlord. Sorry, Jesse.

    What important orcs are left now since most are dead? Will we see any of them return (wink wink)?
    There's a few cameos, careful not to spoil. Saurfang cameo mentioned under his breath. There'll be a different experience for each faction.

    Why leave Sylvannas out of the main story line? Is it like Rhonin in Cata? Just couldn't fit him in?
    Pretty much. Most players didn't know who Lor'themar was, so he had a much greater need for lore than Sylvanas did. They did want to have a quest/scenario where Undercity is purged of Kor'kron in 5.3/5.4, but it was never finished. This event likely did happen in the lore, though.

    Why are the Klaxxi joining Garrosh?
    If you played through their faction to Exhalted, "God bless you," you discovered that the Mantid worshiped Y'shaarj. When Garrosh finds the heart, they see it as a promise that Garrosh will bring their God back. "They probably came with the heart and would give their lives for it." It's neat when they introduce these characters, you get to see their abilities from the Dread Wastes, then they become raid bosses.


    Random:
    Which came first? Old Gods or Titans?
    A direct answer would be a spoiler. There are hints about it everywhere. Blizz loves the theories coming out as players try to explain which came first, and it'd be a sucky way to figure out a "major pillar of WoW lore" if he gave an answer.

    Where is Dalaran? where is it going?
    Originally Blizz wanted it floating over Orgrimmar, with magic bolts raining down and wyvren riders sieging it. But it felt to sci-fi, and they had tech concerns over two cities on top of each other. Feel free to imagine it sieging Bilgewater Harbor.
    Putting it where the Park was would create one Alliance Supercity.

    When you go to Outland and Northrend, technically you go back in time a'la Caverns of Time. They may spell this out more explicitly in-game in the future.

    What are the Naaru up to?
    We will see them again. As Light-incarnate, they are important to the story.

    And Draenei - they getting some story soon?
    Draenei are due, and there will be more Draenei lore in the future.

    Will we ever seen the Dragon Aspects again?
    Blizz gave them a rest after Cataclysm. Now they are mortal, with all the same problems as mortals, and still have their job to do. We'll see more of how they need our help to do their job in the future.

    Is there anything below Tirisfal? (This is the final answer on this question guys)
    The dirty secret is sometimes there are hooks left unresolved for a reason. There's something going on there, but just what isn't being touched on yet. "What if we want to do something cool there? Oh we can't because we said X." So maybe we'll see the answer in the future.

    Where are the following people? Will we see them soon?


    Gallywix?
    Not fun. Kosak doesn't know.

    Rexxar?
    There wanted to be an event in BfB that was "defend Rexxar." How many waves of Kor'kron can you survive with Rexxar? They love the character and want to do more with him.

    Me'dan?
    He's tricky in lore, so he likely won't be seen often.

    Magatha Grimtotem?
    There were pitches on what to do with them, but there just wasn't time to finish their story. We'll need another chapter post-5.4 to see what's up with Baine, Magatha, and the New New New Horde.

    Bolvar?
    If there's a revisit of Northrend, hell yes.

    Alleria and Turalyon?
    There needs to be a plausible story. When one is cooking, we will see them again.
    You don't create "justice" by destroying. That includes buildings, cars, or the careers of the people you want "justice" for.


  6. #446
    Quote Originally Posted by dokhidamo View Post
    I'm surprised this didn't qualify for front page...
    Thank you!

  7. #447
    Quote Originally Posted by satanicway View Post
    Seriously, how can Alliance players not be happy about killing Garrosh?
    We are happy about killing Garrosh. What we're not happy about is the fact that thus far, blizzard has implied that despite the position it leaves the horde in (re: not good) the alliance gains nothing tangible after losing so much after the previous expansions. (Turning alliance zones into contested zones is fine if they needed to even out the levelling experience across factions, but why is it that those contested zones always seemed to end in horde victory? where's the zones that the horde push in, fail, and are routed again?)

    Do you really believe you would take orgrimmar?
    Of course not. But I would expect at least some spoils of war after our rival faction collapses in on itself and we have to help pick up the pieces. I think it's a bit ridiculous that it took the Alliance fanbase complaining about this fact for blizzard to realize that maybe tehy should start planning out some reparations for the Alliance. And even then, it was in this thread that i even heard that blizzard had changed their stance and DID decide to consider it. (someone had a post about GC tweets. I plan to check after this.)

    How would you feel if the horde took stormwind, or placed a floating fortress over it?
    Depends, prior to said raid, do we get an expansion of us kicking horde ass all over the place and stealing land out from under them, followed by a storyline where Varian goes batshit crazy and as a result, several of our other faction leaders step up and have some interesting plot development for their characters? And afterwards, the horde leaves with nothing but the warm fuzzies and a "Chin-Slayer" Title?

    People forget that Vanilla was all about alliance, that the changes in some zones ownership was made to balance leveling zone number of both factions.
    The Onyxia quest chain was the one questline that favored Alliance, and paladins (due to unforseen balance issues) were better for raiding. Yes, the Alliance also had more questing zones. I was completely fine with the horde getting more questing zones in cata, but as i said in my first point, why did the horde have to win in every zone they invaded? Why couldn't the alliance see some victories in their levelling experience?

    So why should you win things that were given to the horde so things were balanced?
    Because they didn't have to be 'given' to the horde to achieve that balance, and taking them away also does not have to upset that balance. that's why Phasing was so nice, you can lose a zone as you quest through it, but those quests still got you through the zone, and got you your needed exp to move on. It worked fine for all the alliance quest hubs, so why not horde?

    All alliance wants is unbalance again.
    False. We want equal attention, and a reason to feel pride in our faction as the horde does.

    Yes the story is horde driven right now? In part yes, but Alduin is also big part of the story as i see right now.
    The story is indeed horde-driven. And 'Alduin' is the main dragon from Skyrim. I guess Prince Anduin must not be that important if you cant even remember his name.

    In fact i would be much more proud if i was an alliance player, then i'm as a horde one right now.
    "THEN PERHAPS YOU SHOULD REROLL! LOLOLOL!1!!!!1one!1!one." Shitty advice, right? that's how we feel when all the horde players tell us to reroll if we want a good story. "Grass is always greener," perhaps. But in this case, i see many more horde saying alliance are correct to be upset than i see alliance saying we're fine and to stop the qq.

    Being right, doing what is good, is a good thing, it something to feel proud about.
    Except this is a game, and you don't get a sense of self-fulfillment because the developers forced you to take the higher road.

    If i was alliance player i would completely vote for leaving orgrimmar when the siege ends, and give it back to the orcs.
    Well, if I was a horde player, i'd laugh at you for leaving with empty hands and thank my lucky stars you didn't realize you could have taken back all the land i helped rob you of.

    First because not doing so would cause another war on the spot, and more casualities, in a territory where they have advantage, since they have Thunderbluff near to give then support.
    Except the revolutionaries are supposed to be the underdog. Realistically, the alliance could crush the remaining revolutionaries and be even further ahead. And if thunder bluff had any reinforcements to spare, why weren't they seiging Orgrimmar with the rest of the revolutionaries? Protection from a surprise attack? How could they then afford to leave if such a threat is still exists?

    I'm not saying the Alliance WOULD do this, but merely to point out that the horde are in no position to negotiate, and it is rather foolish of Varian to demand NOTHING of his long-time enemies. (but again, we don't know what's happening after SoO. So maybe this plot-point will be rectified.)


    (Remember alliance is only being able to take orgrimmar, because Thunderbluff is not helping ogrimmar, and because the rebels are against garrosh too, if it wasn't for that alliance would have their ass handed to them like the last time.)
    And once again, this goes to show how biased the story is towards horde. How can the full might of the Alliance be so weak that they can't even deal with a fraction of the horde? How are Alliance players supposed to feel pride in their faction if what you claim is true?

    (The same way horde would have their ass handed to them should they attack stormwind, with Ironforge near to give then support.)
    Except this makes sens in the context of the story, as the Alliance aren't fractured.


    And second because giving it back to the Orcs would show superiority, honor, and desire to meet then at the battlefield in a fair and proud way when the time for battle comes again.
    The last time the actual Alliance and Horde armies (not the players, but the armies) 'worked together,' the horde betrayed the alliance and got a great many Alliance soldiers dead or scourged. Ever hear the old saying "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me?" What reason does the Alliance have to trust the horde? How can the Alliance be so sure that giving the orcs back their city isn't a mistake that will come back to bite them?

    Simple thinking about taking orgrimmar would end enslaving orcs again, and we know where this story ends right?
    This would be the worse possible way to solve this.
    there's also the other option, proposed at the end of the second war, killing all the orcs instead. Don't have to fight what doesn't exist, right? Although I suppose with Sylvannas, that could come back to bite them. Maybe just exile them to Draenor... Ooh! I've got an idea! Orcs are all about honor, right? Offer each orc the option to swear loyalty to the Alliance! A race so bent on honor would be hard-pressed to break an oath!

    All silly ideas, of course. But potentially just as silly as letting them do whatever the hell they want, which could possibly include re-arming and coming back for blood. Again. the point is, no option is particularly great, but as far as options with the Alliance's intrests at heart, they could do a whole lot better than giving the city back to the Orcs, no strings attached. (and to protect myself from being misquoted, this is all from a lore-standpoint. i don't actually believe Horde players should suddenly have to serve the alliance, nor do i think the orcs new starting zone should be nagrand.)

    For the Alliance the best thing they can do is open diplomatic channels with the Horde, and try to establish more mutual agreements, create some peace time, and let the conflicts for the future.
    Agreed, but a peace offering from the horde's new regime might do wonders to show that they appreciate what the alliance did to aid them. Withdrawing from certain territories, perhaps?

    Either that or go on an all out war against the rebels on their land, plus the Forsaken to backstab then, now free of the Kor'Kron, and the Tauren there.
    Except that the alliance is right there, and because any reinforcements are spread out, they would be running in one by one bad-kung-fu-movie style, and get slaughtered by a superior, prepared force. And if those reinforcements didn't rush right there to retaliate, it'd give the alliance all the time they need to retreat/escape (which is probably around a few seconds, knowing Jaina and her mass-teleport that can pick out friend from foe, and warp you across hemispheres as demonstrated in the Siege of Undercity).

    Remember that Wrathion assumes it would take roughly ONE YEAR for the combined forces of the alliance, with orgrimmar TAKEN, and the rebels siding enslaved, to even fully take Thunder Bluff.
    The tauren are more level-headed and likely to compromise than the orcs or trolls. Through diplomacy, the Alliance may not need to siege TB. And honestly, if it came to that, it seems that it would be after a bad turn of events during negotiations after SoO rather than the Alliance trying to backstab the rebels. And that in itself could lead to more willingness to communicate, especially considering Baine's relationship with Jaina and Anduin.

    And this was assuming that the Alliance would not slaughter the horde, but assimilate it, think about what would happen if they started another war on the spot...
    Already covered. Bad Kung-Fu movie. Mass-Teleport away from reinforcements if things get out of hand. The remnants of the horde are significantly weaker with 1/2 of their orc army gone, and all of their secret weapons discovered/destroyed.


    I liked responding to this post at first. you seem, for the most part, really level-headed. But I don't much appreciate your insistence that your dad (pretty much any amount of horde) can beat up my dad (the full might of the Alliance). Lorewise, that's just not true. And after SoO, (unless there's some crazy backstabbing that happens immediately after) it seems very unlikely that the horde would be able to mount an offensive on the Alliance. Defend a fortified city? sure. But go on the offensive? Not without resorting to Plague-bombing, and I don't think Jaina or her floating city would think too kindly about that.
    Last edited by seije; 2013-08-28 at 10:55 AM.

  8. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by satanicway View Post
    Seriously, how can Alliance players not be happy about killing Garrosh?

    Do you really believe you would take orgrimmar?
    How would you feel if the horde took stormwind, or placed a floating fortress over it?

    People forget that Vanilla was all about alliance, that the changes in some zones ownership was made to balance leveling zone number of both factions.

    So why should you win things that were given to the horde so things were balanced?
    All alliance wants is unbalance again.

    Yes the story is horde driven right now? In part yes, but Alduin is also big part of the story as i see right now.

    In fact i would be much more proud if i was an alliance player, then i'm as a horde one right now.
    Being right, doing what is good, is a good thing, it something to feel proud about.

    If i was alliance player i would completely vote for leaving orgrimmar when the siege ends, and give it back to the orcs.
    First because not doing so would cause another war on the spot, and more casualities, in a territory where they have advantage, since they have Thunderbluff near to give then support.

    (Remember alliance is only being able to take orgrimmar, because Thunderbluff is not helping ogrimmar, and because the rebels are against garrosh too, if it wasn't for that alliance would have their ass handed to them like the last time.)
    (The same way horde would have their ass handed to them should they attack stormwind, with Ironforge near to give then support.)


    And second because giving it back to the Orcs would show superiority, honor, and desire to meet then at the battlefield in a fair and proud way when the time for battle comes again.
    Simple thinking about taking orgrimmar would end enslaving orcs again, and we know where this story ends right?
    This would be the worse possible way to solve this.

    For the Alliance the best thing they can do is open diplomatic channels with the Horde, and try to establish more mutual agreements, create some peace time, and let the conflicts for the future.
    Either that or go on an all out war against the rebels on their land, plus the Forsaken to backstab then, now free of the Kor'Kron, and the Tauren there.

    Remember that Wrathion assumes it would take roughly ONE YEAR for the combined forces of the alliance, with orgrimmar TAKEN, and the rebels siding enslaved, to even fully take Thunder Bluff.
    And this was assuming that the Alliance would not slaughter the horde, but assimilate it, think about what would happen if they started another war on the spot...
    Why should we rush in and kill Garrosh? Why not do nothing, and let the Kok'ron and rebels destroy each other? Why would I want to pilot a robot cat and play servant to Vol'jinn? I have no compelling reason to help the rebels.

    Why wasn't the story the other way around? Why didn't the rebels come begging the Alliance for help? Is it because that would place the Alliance into a position of strength, rather than the running joke it is now?

    Alliance players should refuse to participate in the final raid.

  9. #449
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanist View Post
    Why should we rush in and kill Garrosh? Why not do nothing, and let the Kok'ron and rebels destroy each other? Why would I want to pilot a robot cat and play servant to Vol'jinn? I have no compelling reason to help the rebels.

    Why wasn't the story the other way around? Why didn't the rebels come begging the Alliance for help? Is it because that would place the Alliance into a position of strength, rather than the running joke it is now?

    Alliance players should refuse to participate in the final raid.
    Heart of Y'shaarj. There is a reason why the raid starts in the Vale, the Alliance knows that he has the Heart for quite sometime.

    Heck, if the 5.4 trailer is even not enough, then nothing would ever be. This is what happens if Garrosh is not stopped.



    Last edited by Tauror; 2013-08-27 at 02:30 PM.

  10. #450
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    Theron and Sylvanas Christ have the most dramatic death poses.

  11. #451
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    Honestly, that visions of destruction garbage seems like it was slapped together last minute. It's almost like the developers remembered the Alliance at the very last moment and were like: "Oh shit, we need to invent a reason for the Alliance to be doing this!"

    Anticipating people asking, "Why not let Garrosh and the rebels destroy each other, and stay out of it?", they introduced those cheesy visions.

  12. #452
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanist View Post
    Honestly, that visions of destruction garbage seems like it was slapped together last minute. It's almost like the developers remembered the Alliance at the very last moment and were like: "Oh shit, we need to invent a reason for the Alliance to be doing this!"

    Anticipating people asking, "Why not let Garrosh and the rebels destroy each other, and stay out of it?", they introduced those cheesy visions.
    They introduced the visions because people can't seem to think by themselves, nothing more. We all knew that Garrosh had the Heart and what the power of an Old God can create on the wrong hands.

  13. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by seije View Post
    it seems very unlikely that the horde would be able to mount an offensive on the Alliance. Defend a fortified city? sure. But go on the offensive? Not without resorting to Plague-bombing, and I don't think Jaina or her floating city would think too kindly about that.
    The Alliance probably *COULD* take orgrimmar after Garrosh is deposed by the rebel-factions of the Horde, but to do so would be a pyrrhic victory,

    i think what's really going on is that alliance is only supporting the rebels; the rebels could fail to depose garrosh without support, and if they fail garrosh will use the heart of Yshaarj to become an unstoppable force, but if the alliance try to commit more troops to the effort than 'support' the rebels will not accept their support (knowing that too large a commitment on the side of the alliance is a sure sign of their intention to turn around and stab the rebels in the back)

    so the alliance can only offer just as much support as the rebels will accept to a) guarantee that garossh is deposed and b) not make it look like they are trying to take over Orgrimmar. If they alliance did nothing (it is a false hope that the Korkron and the rebels would destroy each other, and the alliance could pick up the pieces, this is not what would happen) the alliance would be in a bad position, if the Alliance tried conquer orgrimmar they would lose the support of the rebels, and they would be in a bad position. so their only option is to allow the rebel to stage their coup, and at least be allowed to express their opinion on who should replace the warchief.

  14. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    They introduced the visions because people can't seem to think by themselves, nothing more. We all knew that Garrosh had the Heart and what the power of an Old God can create on the wrong hands.
    Yes, the visions were a nice swipe at Alliance players. You get to see Stormwind under attack if the Alliance doesn't lower themselves and become Vol'jinn's manservant.

  15. #455
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    We lose a Warchief we have rejected and don't follow or obey. We liberate a city he currently holds from warriors who have rejected us.
    We are more united than ever as we share a common goal in doing this.

    And the Alliance get to tag along and help us, and appear to be headed towards an ending where exactly NONE of their war aims are fulfilled. Indeed, Varian simply agreeing to walk out of Org would be a reasonable excuse for the Alliance to turn on him, given that in doing so he would have essentially backstabbed his own allies

    So no - an assault that doesn't help the Alliance but helps its enemies isn't something I'd see as beneficial. But then again, I'm still waiting to see how a rebellion that has the Orcs, Trolls, BElfs, Forsaken, Taurne, Pandaren and Goblins on the same side, working towards the same goal is somehow indicative of the Horde being disunited. Or how an Alliance that was united in Vanilla, TBC, LK and Cata suddenly deserves to make a big deal out of an aspect that was always there.

    EJL
    So, being taken out of defensive, and having a head start was the broken Horde have to rebuilt itself in the aftermatch, while Alliance can simply progress and catch up the things left behind during Garrosh's campaign isn't an advantage? Horde can't catch up their own things they left behind, as Magatha and her Elemental Nuke. Meanwhile the bad taste Moira left when she tried to take Ironforge by force and was almost murdered by Varian, is resolved.

    In the aftermatch only Tyrande is disenfranchised from Alliance, with her immutable hot-head. In the Horde Lor'themar, if not elected new Warchief, is separated from Horde, not trusting them, SPECIALLY Sylvanas, which was the reason they joined in the first place.The Forsaken are more than ever relegate to an alien race, since they have no feeling of Family, as the others do (even the elves can learn to treat the Horde that way, but Forsaken thing more closely to Garrosh).

    Kosak made everything so MoP is an Alliance Biased expansion. But as he pointed in the interview, it became clear that is not lore or anything that drive Alliance complaints. It's the will of have Horde alienated from content, as it was before they refurbished Azeroth. GG in pissing the people you asked for during the entire Cataclysm expansion; you got your alliance developers writing an entire expansion, and you never acknowledged they exist. You keep looking at Metzen when he isn't even there, but at D3:RoS.
    Last edited by Buu; 2013-08-27 at 03:01 PM.

  16. #456
    I don't think "all visions are always 100% correct" is a reasonable assumption to make
    if this is a "inside garrosh vision" from the fight it might simply be a vision of his desires
    or a vision of what happens if the alliance does nothing at all, not just not help rebels
    or a vision of what happens if joe farmer doesn't feed the dog before 11am, you get my point

    in general "a vision said so" is a rather shitty thing to base your argument on

  17. #457
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazomir View Post
    Thats not "destroyed" That is just what happens to the losing side.
    Which if those things happened, would destroy the Horde faction in-game. You can't have a 2-faction game where 1 side is conquered and subservient to the other. Like I said to this guy about his list of demands:

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Krixooks View Post
    it's pretty fair though, even if you don't like it
    It's not a matter of me liking it or what you think is fair. It's not going to happen. It would break the game.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-08-27 at 04:07 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  18. #458
    Bloodsail Admiral
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Which if those things happened, would destroy the game for Horde. You can't have a 2-faction game where 1 side is conquered and subservient to the other.
    Oh really? Then why is the Alliance broken and serving Vol'jinn?

  19. #459
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanist View Post
    Oh really? Then why is the Alliance broken and serving Vol'jinn?
    Coming from an Alliance player, you've completely missed what's going on with the Alliance working together with Vol'jin's Revolutionaries.

    Avatar by Ely
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  20. #460
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    The Alliance is broken? when did that happen?

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