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  1. #1

    [MW] Thok the bloodthirsty

    Hey guys so my group is going to be working on Thok the bloodthirsty on Monday and I am looking for some tips on healing.

    So my first question is which skill is better between chi wave, chi burst, and zen sphere?

    I was going to try chi burst but then realized that I can only use it once or twice during the DPS phase.

    Also, should I use chi torpedo or RJW for this encounter?


    Any tips would be nice. Thanks!

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    It is 10 man by the way

  2. #2
    ZS is the better choice
    old mistweaver probably still better than u

  3. #3
    This fight I actually switched to RJW, because I wanted to keep my roll free to use for movement.
    I would use Chi Burst. The ZS AoE heal comes regularly every 10sec, I prefer the control you have with CB (even if you only use it 1 per phase)

  4. #4
    you can channel mana tea without it getting interrupted by the deafening screech. it's amazing.

  5. #5
    Yea this fight I went with chi burst. Granted I havent tried zen sphere for months but Chi burst just feels more in control, able to instantly top both groups off twice in the first phase just seems pretty good to me.
    My guild went with the strategy of having 2 groups of 4 and the 2 tanks outside, so as soon as we want to push p2 we just stack up so for me chi torpedo is useless as if I roll into the other group theres a chance I will push p2 early, and rushing jade winds is sub optimal since spamming spinning crane kick does more healing and doesnt get interrupted by the jolt. Also with xuen up every first phase, you will have him up the entire phase for more burst healing

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Crete View Post
    you can channel mana tea without it getting interrupted by the deafening screech. it's amazing.
    Why on earth would you channel mana tea during the phase that actually requires healing?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Nakanai View Post
    Why on earth would you channel mana tea during the phase that actually requires healing?
    you can channel it for half a second every time he screeches instead of not doing anything assuming all your instant casts are on cd..

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Crete View Post
    you can channel it for half a second every time he screeches instead of not doing anything assuming all your instant casts are on cd..
    or u can use spinning crane kick which doesnt get interupted

  9. #9
    u can be interupt on chi burst carefull^^

    yes 0.5s cast but it happened to me trying to precast the thing^^

    - - - Updated - - -

    Revival can be used as mass dispell on poison phase if your raid doesnt have enough priest

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch View Post
    ZS is the better choice
    Please post logs of this, I personally can't believe that even with the increase it is any good. It doesn't scale with haste and even if it does end up with a higher output in end result it is most likely a padding style of healing with little burst which is very important for countering the bursts of damage being put out in this fight and pushing you into 2nd phase earlier than necessary.

    as for OP, I run 25s so things are more clear now but I will say that even back when I was running 10mans(and if I still was) On a fight like this where multiple of the raid is stacked for the majority of the fight I would Always choose Chi Burst (Even Last Patch) it's throughput in situations like that just blows Chi Wave out of the water.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombiewu View Post
    Please post logs of this, I personally can't believe that even with the increase it is any good. It doesn't scale with haste and even if it does end up with a higher output in end result it is most likely a padding style of healing with little burst which is very important for countering the bursts of damage being put out in this fight and pushing you into 2nd phase earlier than necessary.

    as for OP, I run 25s so things are more clear now but I will say that even back when I was running 10mans(and if I still was) On a fight like this where multiple of the raid is stacked for the majority of the fight I would Always choose Chi Burst (Even Last Patch) it's throughput in situations like that just blows Chi Wave out of the water.
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-46...=1978#Reglitch

    Can't find any comparable logs, but there's some good results with it. Just to remind you, none of the T30 talents scale with haste at all, and what do you mean by it being padding? Place it on your squishiest targets that are likely to go under and it acts as a safety cushion. ZS is also a lot more useful in the fire phase as well ~_~
    old mistweaver probably still better than u

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch View Post

    Can't find any comparable logs, but there's some good results with it. Just to remind you, none of the T30 talents scale with haste at all, and what do you mean by it being padding? Place it on your squishiest targets that are likely to go under and it acts as a safety cushion. ZS is also a lot more useful in the fire phase as well ~_~
    Without keeping 15 people above 50% the phase changes, unless your strat is centered around spending the most time in phase 2 as possible I can't see how ZS could possibly provide enough burst to counter the amount of burst being put out the boss as the phase progresses. Using Chi Burst on CD and cycled with our other powerful CDs like Chi Brew, Xuen, and Revival properly I feel that the healing is more appropriate for the way the damage is coming out. In other words Thok doesn't do steady damage to the raid which seems to be ZS specialty if any. I can definitely agree though that fire phase could be better benefited by this spell than either of the other two.

    I see here that the Detonate is healing for about Double of the actual tick, So am I to understand you just place the Spheres and then Detonate when the next Roar comes out?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombiewu View Post
    Without keeping 15 people above 50% the phase changes, unless your strat is centered around spending the most time in phase 2 as possible I can't see how ZS could possibly provide enough burst to counter the amount of burst being put out the boss as the phase progresses. Using Chi Burst on CD and cycled with our other powerful CDs like Chi Brew, Xuen, and Revival properly I feel that the healing is more appropriate for the way the damage is coming out. In other words Thok doesn't do steady damage to the raid which seems to be ZS specialty if any. I can definitely agree though that fire phase could be better benefited by this spell than either of the other two.

    I see here that the Detonate is healing for about Double of the actual tick, So am I to understand you just place the Spheres and then Detonate when the next Roar comes out?
    ZS does detonate at the end of the HoT you realize? As long as you're keeping it up you're getting around 400k healing each 10 seconds and a heck of a lot more mastery orbs - there's no thinking about detonating, it's a matter of putting it on squishy raid members so they get the HoT then benefiting from the detonation at a nice 10s interval.

    Above & beyond that, there's the fact it's another long duration HoT that helps focused players, the fact you can completely disregard the notion of being interrupted at all, and obviously as I said before the fact it's much better suited to the fire phase (arguable as to whether or not you should be spamming glyphed surging instead here).
    old mistweaver probably still better than u

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch View Post
    ZS does detonate at the end of the HoT you realize? As long as you're keeping it up you're getting around 400k healing each 10 seconds and a heck of a lot more mastery orbs - there's no thinking about detonating, it's a matter of putting it on squishy raid members so they get the HoT then benefiting from the detonation at a nice 10s interval.

    Above & beyond that, there's the fact it's another long duration HoT that helps focused players, the fact you can completely disregard the notion of being interrupted at all, and obviously as I said before the fact it's much better suited to the fire phase (arguable as to whether or not you should be spamming glyphed surging instead here).
    It should be considered that chi burst used with the cloak proc is absolutely amazing, far above ZS but it's nt reliable and more of a "log whoring" approach.

    As for thok, ZS is good because its basically preemptive healing that you place while the raid is topped, and then you can chi dump or SCK when the roar comes out. Chi burst is good because its extreme burst healing (and from my logs, I think it might have higher throughput pre-mastery orbs (in other words 2pc helps ZS more).) but for thok is comes to whether the use of chi burst is better than pre-healing+uplift/SCK or chi burst into those. One is more reliable, one is more "CD oriented". Neither is necessarily better. If your entire raid has huge raw throughput and you all use reliable throughput to keep the raid alive, ZS might be what you want to push you over the "edge" of needed throughput. If you're using CDs heavily. Then chi burst as a mini-CD during one of the weaker CDs could be better.

    There's no such thing as "best", every raid has different healers with their own strengths or weakness', and different raid comps. What works best depends on your raid. (And ultimately the two spells have dry similar throughput, but ZS helps lower spirit requirements even more...though I'm almost always at max mana while spamming SCK soo...)

    Arguably, I would say ZS has more use because you probably want reliable throughput since if your raid is like mine you'll be eating 25+ roars. CBing one or two isn't as reliable IMO. Not to mention cast time etc. obviously I'll be trying both, and so will most I would assume, once we work on heroic thok where the healing is super intense. Once we get there log whoring will show us which spell is better for log whoring in what atmosphere.

    For reference, here's my log on thok using ZS (before I got the legendary cloak or the war forged thok trinket, which are huge throughput increases):

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/or7kb...?s=6494&e=6942
    Last edited by Astraios; 2013-09-17 at 05:46 PM.

  15. #15
    Got the boss down with Xuen and Chi Wave but I was not happy with my healing done.. going to try other talents this week. Thanks alot guys!

  16. #16
    Xuen has no way to be viable on a mono fight, he can only be usefull on 2/3 tarets cleave imo

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by sakk View Post
    Xuen has no way to be viable on a mono fight, he can only be usefull on 2/3 tarets cleave imo
    How so? 50k smart HPS sustained for 45 seconds is a very viable choice, esp 10m where the damage is more valuable.
    old mistweaver probably still better than u

  18. #18
    The problem isn't that xuen is awesome, it's that chi torpedo is only good for saving mana, something that's not exactly in short supply. In the time you spend zooming around the group, you could have done a comparable amount of healing with SCK, uplift.

    Chi torp is however a great healing CD for BrM and WW monks.

  19. #19
    Chi Torpedo is still great for burst, you can pump out a huge amount of burst with them since CT is off the spell GCD.
    old mistweaver probably still better than u

  20. #20
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    A very helpful post.

    My guild couldn't get past Thok in the remainder of our last raid. It being Tuesday and a full schedule of Thok open today, we aim to pass it swiftly and indeed move on.
    My MW spec seems not to have been tuned the best way earlier. Currently I'm opting to go for Zen Sphere, Xuen and thus leave Spinning Crane Kick open for effective AoE in stead of using Rushing Jade Wind.

    It might not be the best spec on the encounter, but shouldn't be the weakest either. Will naturally modify during the encounter in case, say the burst heal of Chi Burst seems to work better with the needs of my raid.

    A very fine encounter in any case.

    Edit : Only after to read all the discussion about Thok healing on the 5.4 MW guide post and it does indeed seem that RJW is oft greatly preferred over ScK
    Last edited by Cuddlymon; 2013-09-24 at 03:42 PM.

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