Lich King 25HC toughest boss in WoW History?

[Angelicat]

You could disable the buff. They went in after the first kill and killed it without any buff.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ll-by-Paragon/
With the 5% buff on March 26-ish.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPd0A6iGBSg
Part 1 of the 0% kill uploaded on July 31.

Yeah but that was done a month after the first kill, I was saying that no one did it when 0% was the current buff.

I think people are really underestimating how much gear upgrades help on any fight (especially when you are using heroic lich king BIS weapons against him). You don't pull out DPS requirements from simply being amazing. Even for their 5% kill they stacked a ton of melee cleave from what I recall to get the kill. Their 0% video kills him well into the enrage.

[Grimbold21]

I much prefered TBC, difficulty wise.

[Deleted]

I think people are really underestimating

.. your comprehension skill. Blizzard fucked up this encounter. It's devs fault, as usual.... hotfixed the HP by 200 %.

And devs aren't better today, they have no internal team for content testing, no real numbers / theorycraft tools... Devs sucks.

[Angelicat]

.. your comprehension skill. Blizzard fucked up this encounter. It's devs fault, as usual.... hotfixed the HP by 200 %.

And devs aren't better today, they have no internal team for content testing, no real numbers / theorycraft tools... Devs sucks.

What? If they didn't every guild would have kill him easily at 0%. Perhaps you should work on your thinking skills.

P.S. this is based around me actually killing the fight the day the 15% buff went out. We were close on 10% but not quite. We would have easily made the various DPS checks otherwise at 0% and our guild was not amazing by any means.

[Deleted]

So read again !!!!!! Because none of your stupid words are against mine !!!!!

Infracted.

[Angelicat]

So read again !!!!!! Because none of your stupid words are against mine !!!!!

I have no idea what you mean by that. Go to some other thread if you want to name-call Blizzard. WoW general forums are a good place to start if you need a recommendation.

[Deleted]

Stand alone complex, aren't you ?

[anon5123]

#7 The Four Horsemen - 56 days from Gothik's death to D&T's kill. August 25th 2006

Four Horsemen was not the hardest fight by far. The reason it took 56 days is because you needed 8 geared tanks to kill it. Once you had 8 geared tanks, the fight was simple.

Also, where's H Rag on that list?

[Angelicat]

Stand alone complex, aren't you ?

Lol, what? I can't tell if that's an insult or what. I googled it and came up with nothing. I will just take it you are mad at me?

[Deleted]

Took longer to kill =! Harder

Nearly all Classic Bosses in this list took so long to kill because they were UNKILLABLE until Blizzard made some Bugfixes and then they fell after a few days or even hours.
There were no things like PTR or Feedback-Tools for Players at this time. Only the fights Naxx40 were killable from Day 1 though so this was the first properly tuned instance. Of course Sapphiron was kind of a contentblocker because you had to farm all the Frost Resistance Gear first. Still fights took a long time to kill because even Hardcore Guilds at that time werent THAT hardcore as they are today... even the best 40man Raids had lots of bad people in it, raiding schedules even for hardcore guilds were quite "normal" with raids only in the evening for 5-6 hours and people in general weren't that great at raiding at this time.

Same goes for a lot of the early TBC Bosses in TK and SSC... the Fights were buggy and overtuned like hell (and overtuned isnt hard, its just abilities that for example onehit someone and you cant do anything). The Bosses were either killed with exploits or shortly after being hotfixed. You have to know that in theory you could enter Black Temple and Mount Hyjal from Day 1 of TBC if you managed to kill Kaelthas and Vashj... of course the Instances weren't even finished at that time so Blizzard had to make the Bosses pretty much unkillable to later make them killable with a hotfix after finishing the Instances.

So the "real" Top 10 list would rather look like this: (again not the hardest but what fight took the longest to beat "legit")

#1 Yogg-Saron, Alone in the Darkness - 70 days from Stars' first pull. 7th July 2009
#2 The Four Horsemen - 56 days from Gothik's death to D&T's kill. August 25th 2006
#3 The Lich King (Heroic 25) - 42 Days from Heroic Putricide's death (first pull). March 26th 2010
#4 Heroic Al'Akir 25 - 36 days from Heroic Conclave of Wind's death. January 22nd 2011.
#5 Magtheridon - 29 days from the first level 70 25-man raid. 24th February 2007
#6 Loatheb - 14 days from Heigan's death. 17th July 2006
#6 tied Heigan the Unclean - 13 days from Noth the Plaguebringer's death. 3rd July 2006
#8 tied Hydross the Unstable <Duke of Currents> - 13 days from Gruul's death (Unlocking Serpentshrine). 16th February 2007
#9 tied Heroic Cho'gall - 13 days from Heroic Ascendant Council's death. 15th January 2011.
#9 tied Heroic Nefarian - 13 days from Heroic Atramedes' death. January 9th 2011.
(#11 Archimonde <The Defiler> - 10 days from Azgalor's death. 9th June 2007)

1.Yogg+0 surely was hard but lots of guilds didnt even bother to try him at first because everybody thought it was unkillable. Moreover you should rather count the time from Algalons death to Yogg+0 Death which would "only" be 1 month.
2. 4 Horsemen was kind of contentblocker because you had to bring 8 Warriors and most of them had to have T3 5pc (or was it 3pc?) to realistically kill him. Moreover Naxx40 didnt have a linear progressionpath, iirc pretty much all guilds went to kill Loatheb after killing Gothik. So you rather have to count the time from Loatheb to 4h which again would be much shorter.
3. LK HC definately is one of the hardest fights ever, but it only took so long because of the "Limited Trys" Mechanic. Otherwise he would have been killed much earlier.
4. Alakir same problem as a lot of other fights in contents without linear progression... people simply went on to clear BWD/BoT first after killing Conclave which was kinda freeloot. Alakir itself wasnt that hard.
5. I'm not sure about this boss anymore... maybe he was unkillable at first too, i dont remember.
6. Loatheb is legit, but Heigan only took so long because Noth was one of the first bosses you killed in Naxx40 and most guilds went to Kill Meaxxna and Thaddius first before returning to Plaguewing.
8. First Gruul kill was an exploit iirc so most guilds actually reached SSC much later. Boss wasnt hard as such.
9. Non-Linear progression!
11. Legit.

So in the end the bosses that took the longest actually would actually be: 4H, Yogg+0, LK HC, Loatheb, Archimonde.

On Topic: Hardest Fights:
1. Ragnaros HC
2. 4H (Classic)
3. LK HC
4. Yogg+0
5. Muru

False.
They were PTR back then. I wiped in Skeram in the PTR so please dont lie.
The hard part of 4h were to get the warriors and gearing them. C'thun post fix were harder than 4h. Yeah C'thun were bugged but it was a pretty hard encounter without the bug too. The pro guilds kill it quick after the fix cos they had mastered it wiping and wiping in the buged version (and you technically could kill him with the bug but you had to be very lucky with the spawn point of the tentacles).

Some bosses back then were bugged but a lot of them were very hard given the poor skills of the classes back then. The mechanics were simpler but much more unforgiving. I think for example HC Rag, H LS and 0-yogg were harder than anything from Vanilla / BC but i feel the difficulty avergae of the whole raids were high those days than today.

And answering the question: No. LK wasnt even the hardest boss from his ex-pack.

[Tyrgannus]

Due to how different 40 man raids were, how broken or wonkily tuned they often were, and how nebbish players were in comparison to nowadays, I tend to throw Vanilla out when looking at these charts because it's so difficult to compare to the end bosses in the expansions. Yogg-0 is probably the hardest encounter in "modern" raiding then.

[Dawnrage]

Why hate on gear checks? They are better difficulty checks for a game like WoW than actual skill.

[Arrowstormen]

Raiding in Classic was just simple but over-tuned fights with stupid grindy requirements, today's fights are hard because they're complicated and in Heroic leaves little room for error. I believe the top guilds in the world confirmed that Ragnaros Heroic was indeed the hardest boss fight yet.

Raiding in Classic was not hard, it was messy, silly, hard for the wrongs reasons, filled with 40 people making a single person completely unimportant, class balance was ridiculous, you wouldn't believe it, and people hadn't played the game for 8 years and knew it in and out. The world first Ragnaros kill has the perspective you see it from stop using their spells and chat in the middle of it.

- - - Updated - - -

Why hate on gear checks? They are better difficulty checks for a game like WoW than actual skill.

They're artificial and boring, and they don't do anything but stall you. Gear checks are largely gone from WoW by now, since getting gear you can raid in is super easy for a fresh 90. Spine of Deathwing Heroic was a gear check I believe, which was the only reason it took some time for the World First Racers to kill.

[Deleted]

Raiding in Classic was just simple but over-tuned fights with stupid grindy requirements, today's fights are hard because they're complicated and in Heroic leaves little room for error. I believe the top guilds in the world confirmed that Ragnaros Heroic was indeed the hardest boss fight yet.

Not really. You can call every hard fight 'overtuned'. If its killable its not overtuned, its hard. Today bosses have 10 skills and the players ignores 8 of them. Patchwerk has 3 skills and were harder than every heroic boss of SOO not called garosh, siegecrafter or parangons. You had to do insane dps healing and a perfect 3 tank agro management (back when aggro existed) all of the fight.
And i agree HC-Rag was the hardest but the other bosses in H-firelands? Not so much.

[MrPaladinGuy]

Haven't you made a thread like this for the past few weeks except with a different encounter in the title each time ?

[Deleted]

Why exactly is it useless? The op asked for "proof" that other bosses were harder. This list clearly demonstrates other bosses took longer to kill and were thus more difficult to kill for whatever reason. How would you provide this proof?

And yes, different guilds found different things difficult, but a world first is a world first, it shows how fast whoever the best players at the time were to kill something, which equalises the 'different guilds find things easier/harder' issue.

Not sure if its a valid list, as there were less players in vanilla than in say wotlk, meaning theoretically less hardcore players and less good hardcore guilds. Also, as someone else mentioned, there is a difference between tough and broken.

[Cloudiz]

Raiding in Classic was just simple but over-tuned fights with stupid grindy requirements, today's fights are hard because they're complicated and in Heroic leaves little room for error. I believe the top guilds in the world confirmed that Ragnaros Heroic was indeed the hardest boss fight yet.

Remember back in classic ppl didnt have addons that almost moved the char out of the fires for u
And u have done Nax 80 havent u, thats how encounters was, just that if u got hit by anything u mostly got 1 shotted : )

AQ and Nax had some really good encounters, they cant compare to the ones nowdays in how many skills the bosses had, but mostly its fancy names on stuff u have to move out of anyway. U didnt have CoS as Rogues, 1 hour CD shieldwalls, now every class got some insane spells u can survive most of the stuff u usally get 1 shotted from, with a baby CD

[Deleted]

I played the game for 8 years (with some stops). It was hard, yes. it was messy if your raid were bad. So chaging for 40 people to 25 makes every person ultraimportant?? Every person counted in the dps races, in c'thun, thaddius and much others. Class balance were bad as always (hello warlocks), and the classes had much minor power (mobility, lifesavers) than today. The encounters were adjusted to that.

[Brubear]

^ is correct.

For reference this is what Xi put on the Death and Taxes homepage at the time:



I can't find the original thread, so it looks like it's lost to history, but yes, c'thun wasn't difficult because he was difficult, he was hard because he was broken.

Isn't that the same rant Furor posted on the Fires of Heaven website bitching about Plane of Time A/B to Verant/SOE?

[dacoolist]

At least in my time (I didn't play Classic except that first few hours that it took me to realize I wouldn't have a life back in Aug 2005 if I played wow, came back Aug 2007..)

Yogg 0 is by far My Time in wow's hardest fight.