Air strike kills 15 civilians in Yemen by mistake:.

[Olo]

The Pakistanis have repeatedly told the US to stop violating their sovereignty with drone attacks and the CIA continues to ignore them. And Pakistan has nuclear weapons (even if they are pointed at India and exist only to stop India glassing Pakistan).

And according to the wikileaks cables and government insiders the US and Pakistan have an agreement. The government will allow the strikes and condemn them in public for internal political reasons.

[satimy]

remember they hate us for our freedumbs

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

If your country harbors terrorists then there may unfortunately be some unintended consequences.

That's just an excuse to do bad things. We did something bad, but instead of admitting we made a mistake, we try to redirect the light onto other people with vague accusations.

[Theinquisition]

My bad ya'll, my joystick wasn't calibrated correctly, ill get right on that.

[ringpriest]

Unfortunate accident. Yemen needs to stop harboring terrorist. The grim reality is that if their people and government don't out them then other countries are going to be proactive and out them. When that happens mistakes happen.

If your country harbors terrorists then there may unfortunately be some unintended consequences.

No. An unfortunate accident is when I spill my coffee and burn myself. A mistake is when the government misfiles your tax return. Unintended consequences are the result of letting your 16-year old nephew borrow your Porsche. The correct term is for events like this is war crime.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

And according to the wikileaks cables and government insiders the US and Pakistan have an agreement. The government will allow the strikes and condemn them in public for internal political reasons.

This, if true, is still not an excuse for such a fuck up. If you're going to bomb shit you need to make sure you're actually bombing the right target. The problem with drone strikes is that they are used so freely since nobody is put at risk piloting them.

[Olo]

This, if true, is still not an excuse for such a fuck up. If you're going to bomb shit you need to make sure you're actually bombing the right target. The problem with drone strikes is that they are used so freely since nobody is put at risk piloting them.

The civilian casualty rate with drones is incredibly low compared to other forms of force.

[zephid]

Unfortunate accident. Yemen needs to stop harboring terrorist. The grim reality is that if their people and government don't out them then other countries are going to be proactive and out them. When that happens mistakes happen.

By that logic you would be totally ok with Yemen bombing the US in an attempt to kill the ones responsible for the drone strike, since the drone strike could easily be seen as a terrorist attack.

[Laize]

Is there a SINGLE valid reason American materiel was in Yemen?

We're not at war with them. They haven't attacked us. They haven't even threatened us.

For fuck's sake, they don't even sit on or near any of our strategic interests (as is the case with Syria and Iraq).

So why the good god damn are we in Yemen now? I'm sure they'll cook up some bullshit excuse having to do with "terrorism"... if they respond at all.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I don't even know how they make so many mistakes.

[Laize]

The civilian casualty rate with drones is incredibly low compared to other forms of force.

Personally, I'm well aware of this fact.

What's unacceptable, to me, is that these attacks are being carried out in non-belligerent nations of no strategic value. We have no valid reason for being in Yemen... they aren't even bothering to concoct bullshit excuses feed us while they conduct military actions in sovereign nations anymore... we just get to hear about it every time someone's grandmother gets exploded while she's picking vegetables.

[Simulacrum]

If your country harbors terrorists then there may unfortunately be some unintended consequences.

How does killing 15 innocent people in a drone strike for political reasons not count as terrorism?

I guess... if you're a western nation killing people in another part of the world, it isn't terrorism, because the guys you're terrorizing can't fight back...

[satimy]

How does killing 15 innocent people in a drone strike for political reasons not count as terrorism?

I guess... if you're a western nation killing people in another part of the world, it isn't terrorism, because the guys you're terrorizing can't fight back...

Because were the good guys and have the most nukes!

[Olo]

Personally, I'm well aware of this fact.

What's unacceptable, to me, is that these attacks are being carried out in non-belligerent nations of no strategic value. We have no valid reason for being in Yemen... they aren't even bothering to concoct bullshit excuses feed us while they conduct military actions in sovereign nations anymore... we just get to hear about it every time someone's grandmother gets exploded while she's picking vegetables.

AQAP? most active AQ branch? cargo plane bomb plot? embassy attack? ect..

[Laize]

If your country harbors terrorists then there may unfortunately be some unintended consequences.

This is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

We kill terrorists (Which is a highly charged, very subjective term), mistakes get made from time to time and we blow up civilians.

The friends, neighbors and relatives of these civilians are (very understandably) fucking pissed off.

Some of them choose to fight back in the only way the weak can combat the strong.

We then label those people as terrorists and hunt them... when in reality what I guess they should have done is... accept their lot in life as being treated as expendable by a foreign power combating an enemy of its own making?

This type of blowback was predicted by the CIA back when Israel was just a gleam in the UK's decolonizing eye... and yet here we are. We know how to stop it. We just don't.

- - - Updated - - -

AQAP? most active AQ branch? cargo plane bomb plot? embassy attack? ect..

Excuse me... that's an excuse to have intelligence agents operating in the area. Not flying death machines.

If you recall, the cargo bomb plot wasn't stopped with drones.

Has it ever occurred to anyone that the terrorism might quit if we just, oh I dunno, stop killing people in the Middle East?

- - - Updated - - -

What I'm most confused about is why the Yemeni government seems to be doing nothing to stop these incursions. Do we have some kind of pact with them that allows us into their airspace? Or are we just kind of invading sovereign territory for walkabouts from time to time?

[Olo]

Excuse me... that's an excuse to have intelligence agents operating in the area. Not flying death machines.

Gotta kill the people those agents find.

What I'm most confused about is why the Yemeni government seems to be doing nothing to stop these incursions. Do we have some kind of pact with them that allows us into their airspace?

Yes. They often coordinate with the CIA and run joint operations out of airbases in KSA and Africa

[Laize]

Gotta kill the people those agents find.

Yeah... I'm sure an actual agent in the field identified a wedding procession as an AQ convoy. It's really easy to mistake one for the other.

We have no agents on the ground. You know full well these strikes are carried out based on grainy footage from drone cameras.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

If there was a way to vote drones or actually legislate *smart* dronning instead of "Hmm might be there" I'd be all for it. Scary shit is scary.

[Olo]

Yeah... I'm sure an actual agent in the field identified a wedding procession as an AQ convoy. It's really easy to mistake one for the other.

We have no agents on the ground. You know full well these strikes are carried out based on grainy footage from drone cameras.

Did you miss the big scandal when the administration tapped AP reporters after they exposed a double agent the CIA was running in AQAP?

[Laize]

Did you miss the big scandal when the administration tapped AP reporters after they exposed a double agent the CIA was running in AQAP?

I did actually.

Even so, that doesn't justify American military action in a foreign nation.

You know what justifies American military action in a foreign nation? Aggression against America or its interests by that nation. The last time that happened was Desert Storm.

The "War on Terror" is a Sisyphean effort. It's one we literally cannot win. Ever. Or at least not in the foreseeable future.

With every "oops" civilian casualty, the terrorist groups get more recruits.

It's like Global Thermonuclear War. The only way to win this war, is to stop fighting. We leave the Middle East, the terrorist groups lose all their propaganda, all their recruiting tools, all their funding.

We are the entire reason the terrorists exist. The moment we stop fighting them, they lose their entire reason for existing.