why i HATE the in game store

[rhorle]

They would be making massive profits without having a cash shop, so the only reason for including one is greed. And it's a level of greed that I never like to see in any company, regardless of how many people are cheering it as a wonderful "capitalist" thing to see.

And making profits is bad for a company why? At what point should companies give things away for free? What level of profits is acceptable, and which isn't? How would Blizzard even control something like that? Only make the first 1 million subscribers pay and the rest get it for free? Thats the only way to counter act "profits are greed" logic you are using.

What again is wrong with a company offer 100% optional things to those willing to pay for it? Why is it wrong for those that want to pay get to pay? And those that don't want to pay don't have to pay? Blizzard also offers tiered subscription prices, are they equally greedy for charging different customers different prices per month? Why not?

[shadowboxer123]

If the gym were charging you $30 a month, and pocketing $26 of that as profit, then it would be a good analogy.

Why?
1. you are paying money to get access to something.
2. You are actually getting access to what you paid for.
3. You decided to pay their price.

So why does it matter how much profit they make? If it offends you that they are making a profit, then why did you ever give them money in the first place?

[Steampunk]

Still takes dev time away from the content everybody pays for.

Developer Time =/= Artist Time.

[Sargiean]

So funny how much the term "morality" is getting thrown around here. I bet every single one of you whiners is pirating stuff all the time. Oh I forgot, laws of morality only apply to "the Man" and anyone who makes more money than yourself.

No, that's a blatant assumption. I'm one of the people bewildered by Blizzards double dipping, and I have never pirated a game. Period. Arching generalizations like this do nothing to contribute to the conversation.

[Giscoicus]

Developer Time =/= Artist Time.

Artists are developers. I should probably have spoken better though. It takes production time away from other content. Either way it draws resources from the general game to something for a limited player base. Something along those lines is why raid finder was introduced if I'm not mistaken...

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No1 is forcing you to buy the pets, mounts, or Xmog gear from the store. Don't like it? Don't buy it? Move on.....

*gets on her sparkly pony and whips her hair in the wind* yeah.....

No but I have to deal with them producing your ugly mounts instead of other content. Timeless isle had 0 new models but hey, at lest you have your ugly horse! The zone used by everybody got no new models but the store used by some did. Designing for the minority and not the general public...wasn't this something they didn't want to do anymore?

[Huehuecoyotl]

And making profits is bad for a company why? At what point should companies give things away for free? What level of profits is acceptable, and which isn't? How would Blizzard even control something like that? Only make the first 1 million subscribers pay and the rest get it for free? Thats the only way to counter act "profits are greed" logic you are using.

The subscription level they set when the game started was enough for them to make money on a certain level of subscribers. No idea what that was, but considering that an MMO was considered a success if it had half a million players back in those days, it wouldn't be unlikely that their financial plans would have been based on about this level. Hell, even if they planned on getting a million, they ended up being 12 times more of a success than that at their peak.

They could have done a lot of different things at this point. They could have acknowledged that they were making a ton of money, and aimed to give back to their loyal customers; a year free of subs when you had been playing for three years, a free expansion. They could have massively increased the amount of content they were putting out. They had a number of choices.

They chose instead to take those massive profits and use them to fund all their other games. We saw how that worked out for D3, and we can guess that they were going down the same road with Titan and something caused them to stop and take stock. They used the profits to help stockpile $3.2bn of cash, above and beyond all their costs, taxes, dividends and everything else. They took their customers for granted, and tried to take them for everything that they could.

And even that wasn't enough. Still they had to introduce as many paid services as they could, despite the damage it did to servers. They had to introduce the cash shop. Because massive profit wasn't enough for them. They saw the chance to get more money out of the players. Then more, and more. They let greed run rampant.

You tell me this is capitalism, but I don't recognise it as such. I see it as profiteering, certainly. I see it as immoral and greedy. If this is capitalism, then frankly I want no part of it.

But clearly I am talking to a stacked up series of brick walls, and that isn't any good for my blood pressure. So have fun, I am out.

[Edit] I can imagine the posters saying "see, we won, we beat his arguments". No, you didn't. I simply grew tired of trying to discuss with a bunch of people doing the equivalent of sticking their fingers in their ears and saying "la, la, la. I'm not listening". Which is a shame, because there were some posters on here that were willing and capable of discussing this. But fighting through the idiots wears you down eventually.

[Sargiean]

No1 is forcing you to buy the pets, mounts, or Xmog gear from the store. Don't like it? Don't buy it? Move on.....

*gets on her sparkly pony and whips her hair in the wind* yeah.....

This argument fails.

No one forces me to purchase the store items, so I won't. BUT how did the items get there? Who made them? Who paid the person to make them? Where did the payment come from? Is there an additional good or service being given to us, or are they charging us for something we've already paid for?

No matter how long I play, no matter how good I am, I will never, ever be able to get anything from the store. Period. That is not how a game that's sub based is supposed to work. Our sub pays for the developers and artists to do what they do.If If this was a f2p game, then yes they could charge for their cosmetic items, because otherwise there would be no other option to make money.

By selling items that are paid for via your subscription in the store (by paying for the time of the artist/Dev to make said item), they are directly devaluing your subscription worth because the item that is now going in the store is now not dropable in the normal game.

We can objectively measure the polygon count, detail, and 'extras' used in the new mounts vs the ones they've added to the game for free. Simply look at the texture quality. Look at the 'epic' ground mounts they used on the isle of giants - the raptors. They're nothing more than re skins of old mounts from 2004 (remember the epic ground mounts given to trolls?). Blizzard turned around and then added in the armored blood wing, and fey dragon. Look at the fidelity of those two mounts, and compare them with the Isle of Giants or even the Timeless Isle mounts. In both cases, the mounts that are available in game not only use less polygons, but have worse textures, are unarmored, and lack the level of detail used on mounts in store, and are simple re skins of existing mounts. The ones in the stores are all unique models - unavailable elsewhere. Why is it OK to create unique models available for an additional purchase using funding meant to support the very people who give said funding?

Do you completely disagree that this is double dipping - and wrong? And before people start saying "company making money whats wrong with that?" there isn't. What is wrong is that blizzard is essentially charging us for something we've already paid for.

[DarkArchon]

This is no different they any other company. Trying to make more money on 'extras' look at even a IPhone all the accessorizes.... Store items are for people that like the look or serious collectors.. It has no bearing on the game. Complaining about a business being a business. We've heard it all now. Once again another thread with people venting concerns about there grand sense of entitlement.

[Prag]

*dribble*

You tell me this is capitalism, but I don't recognise it as such. I see it as profiteering, certainly. I see it as immoral and greedy. If this is capitalism, then frankly I want no part of it.

But clearly I am talking to a stacked up series of brick walls, and that isn't any good for my blood pressure. So have fun, I am out.

[Edit] I can imagine the posters saying "see, we won, we beat his arguments". No, you didn't. I simply grew tired of trying to discuss with a bunch of people doing the equivalent of sticking their fingers in their ears and saying "la, la, la. I'm not listening". Which is a shame, because there were some posters on here that were willing and capable of discussing this. But fighting through the idiots wears you down eventually.

You're quite full of yourself. Your argument failed because you came in accepting no other opinion while presenting your own as if it were fact. The world, for better or worse, has embraced capitalism and the overwhelming majority practice it.

What Blizzard is doing isn't surprising or malicious. It's good business and there are people working there that aren't greedy executives that benefit from the success.

[hplaner]

I don't really care about the store since I don't use it, but people whining about the game store cause they think blizzard uses the subscription money to support the store? Really? Why would they need to use the subscription revenues on this when they're generating revenues from the store itself to support it. Kinda makes sense why they're promoting the store because the store is generating them money that they can use to generate more money right?

[shadowboxer123]

That is not how a game that's sub based is supposed to work. Our sub pays for the developers and artists to do what they do.

Your sub grants you access to play the game. That is all. Once you give them your money, it is no longer yours to tell them what to do with it.

Also a sub based game isn't something that is set into stone. Who says Blizzard, or any other company for that matter, can't change how they do something?

We can objectively measure the polygon count, detail, and 'extras' used in the new mounts vs the ones they've added to the game for free. Simply look at the texture quality.

Graphics have gotten better over time. Look at the mounts since Vanilla. In-game mounts and pets have changed and evolved since then.

[Gags]

Your sub grants you access to play the game. That is all. Once you give them your money, it is no longer yours to tell them what to do with it.

Also a sub based game isn't something that is set into stone. Who says Blizzard, or any other company for that matter, can't change how they do something?



Graphics have gotten better over time. Look at the mounts since Vanilla. In-game mounts and pets have changed and evolved since then.

Yeah but this is how things like day 1 DLC become standard. The big company's start doing it and then everyone follows suit and it becomes a standard. If this gets developed more who knows what it will turn into and you can bet everyone will start doing the same thing.

In terms of graphics, he was referring to the raptor mounts from the isle of giants. Current expansion obtainable mounts in game are bland and boring compared to store mounts.

Personally I like the look of the store mounts but wont waste my money and believe they lose their appeal when you see everyone riding one.

[shadowboxer123]

Yes, they have limited development resources, of course, nothing isn't limited. But one thing is always true in product development : everything changes, people, teams, organization, goals, everything (and if it doesn't, this usually means your product will die soon).

Exactly, things change. Of course mounts look better now than they originally did. Sub based models can change. Really simple. I don't think that Blizzard is becoming the Evil prince of darkness here. If people don't like what they are doing, maybe it is time to move on.

It is ONLY a GAME after all.

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Yeah but this is how things like day 1 DLC become standard. The big company's start doing it and then everyone follows suit and it becomes a standard. If this gets developed more who knows what it will turn into and you can bet everyone will start doing the same thing.

In terms of graphics, he was referring to the raptor mounts from the isle of giants. Current expansion obtainable mounts in game are bland and boring compared to store mounts.


Personally I like the look of the store mounts but wont waste my money and believe they lose their appeal when you see everyone riding one.

Well then don't give them your money.

Personally, I won't spend my money on one of the mounts, but then again, I'm not really wasting my energy getting upset that there is a mount for sale either.

[Gags]

Exactly, things change. Of course mounts look better now than they originally did. Sub based models can change. Really simple. I don't think that Blizzard is becoming the Evil prince of darkness here. If people don't like what they are doing, maybe it is time to move on.

It is ONLY a GAME after all.

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Well then don't give them your money.

Personally, I won't spend my money on one of the mounts, but then again, I'm not really wasting my energy getting upset that there is a mount for sale either.

I'm currently not, have been unsubbed for a while. Although not for this reason. Look I don't completely hate the idea of the store, as long as it stays what it is. But watching it's progress over the past years I very much doubt it will. If we can prevent Blizzard by yelling lots and they decide to not add controversial items to it then all good. But they obviously know it's an issue as one of the reasons now when you unsub is the in game store.

[Fagatronics]

Sub based models can change. Really simple. I don't think that Blizzard is becoming the Evil prince of darkness here.

My main concern with Blizzard's model is if it is customer friendly. 1 mount or 1 server transfer is about the equivalent of 2 months subscription. That doesn't seem very customer friendly for single unique model (sometimes just reskinned) and an automated service.

Imagine you join a club. Let's say it is a gym and you pay about $15 a month. For the price you pay, you have unlimited access to the equipment, and you can basically go anytime you want.

Now let's say the same club decides to open a juice bar where they sell protein shakes, energy drinks and such. They sell their products for a reasonable price, and it is not something that you are entitled to get with your membership. Would you really be upset if they offered something that was completely optional to increase their profits?

Maybe not the best analogy, but when I hear people getting upset about the in-store shop, that is what is reminds me of.

That analogy works if you're being charged 15 dollars a month to use whatever in the gym and charged 25 dollars for a drink at the juice bar.

[rda]

So what is the difference between whether it's player-provided cash going towards executive travel/luxuries or towards cash shop items?

Executive travel/luxuries don't entice you to be spending more on the game, as cash shop items do. That's the difference.

[Stonecloak]

Still arguing this lol.

[Tauren]

Imagine you join a club. Let's say it is a gym and you pay about $15 a month. For the price you pay, you have unlimited access to the equipment, and you can basically go anytime you want.

Now let's say the same club decides to open a juice bar where they sell protein shakes, energy drinks and such. They sell their products for a reasonable price, and it is not something that you are entitled to get with your membership. Would you really be upset if they offered something that was completely optional to increase their profits?

Maybe not the best analogy, but when I hear people getting upset about the in-store shop, that is what is reminds me of.

more like the gym opens up a new part of the gym with more equipment but only work when you put money in it

[Fengas]

People seem to be missing or simply ignoring two things:

First:
Store mount quality if far superior to anything currently in game, exception being sky golem.
Whether you prefer the looks on Pandaren kite over Fey dragon is irrelevant, since Fey dragon obviously had way more effort put in to it.
And people buy them for that sole reason, so why should Blizzard put more effort into a mount for let's say 200 mount achievement reward, when they can sell it for around two months worth of subscription.

Second:
The shop will expand, they said they have plans for it, and integrated it in-game. Sure it helps to milk impulsive buyers, but I'm pretty certain that later on we'll see thing like:
Challenge mode like gear, we already have helms, entire sets aren't that far away.
Lesser Charms, of course people will defend it saying I have over five thousand charms om my main. That doesn't mean you have them on your alt, or especially when you just leveled it.
Catch up gear, you know like the one we have on timeless isle? People will defend it "oh but you can farm it in few hours and mail it to your alt". It's all dependent on RNG so you might or might not, and then we sink deeper.
Extra rolls, you know at first it will be pay 5$ to use another greater charm/mogu rune/seal on this same boss if you already used one, because you know with some randomized stats on gear and reforging gone, you might be very desperate to get that one upgrade.
The list can go on and on but you get the idea. And if you're saying this is not going to happen. People said things like "Moonkin as a store pet is harmless" or "You're paranoid, what else they can put there? Mounts? Don't be silly!"

Solution?
IF we're talking cosmetics, mounts / pets / gear, slash the fucking prices by 3/4, and put something like coaching system in the game, or where you can give points to helpful players, like the other that actually take time to explain every single fight in LFR to people that never done it before, people that help you when you have questions, people that actually lead in battlegrounds, pug raid leaders or just nice people in general. Sure a lot of people would fake being nice just for rewards, but at least that is better then "OMFG STUPID FAGS L2P OR GO PLAY HELLO KITTY ONLINE!". And people that don't want to collect those points, or are douches in general can buy the mount for 5$.

Then again a lot of people have a mentality of "Let me bend over while you lube me" when they are getting miked.

[Fengas]

Ooh, I see we are making up things now?

In that case: I like the store because it cures cancer.
How can you be against the store, do you want those people to die?


So first we make up bullshit to try and prove a point.
Then you start insulting people who still disagree after your fairy tales?

Do you have a condition of some sort that allows you to only read bold text?

The shop will expand, they said they have plans for it, and integrated it in-game. Sure it helps to milk impulsive buyers, but I'm pretty certain that later on we'll see thing like: etc etc

Where did I say it was a fact?

Oh and to elaborate on the "insult" part, that's not an insult, it's a fact that some people allow themselves to get milked, why is beyond me.