Lowbie dungeon drama queens/control freaks.

[steele miller]

Name it then. Looking at your post, you're contributing nothing, yet you complain about shit community.

people care more about being practical than adhering to principle.

fuck the things that actually hold community together, fuck the thing that keeps structure, fuck being polite.

people dont care about etiquette, people dont care about being nice, they just want to do something as quick as possible and if they step on a few toes, they aren't the bad guy. theyre just trying to get through it and these people are angry for no real good reason.

thats why we dont have any significant group content in endgame anymore. thats why we dont have challenging dungeons. because people dont give a fuck about community. they dont care for the time and effort things take, whether its building and fostering a community or going through a dungeon the proper way: with the tank being the tank, not the DPS or healer. its faster and more efficient to just blast through. its easier to just solo stuff and not have to look for a group for quests.

[Deleted]

people care more about being practical than adhering to principle.

fuck the things that actually hold community together, fuck the thing that keeps structure, fuck being polite.

people dont care about etiquette, people dont care about being nice, they just want to do something as quick as possible and if they step on a few toes, they aren't the bad guy. theyre just trying to get through it and these people are angry for no real good reason.

thats why we dont have any significant group content in endgame anymore. thats why we dont have challenging dungeons. because people dont give a fuck about community. they dont care for the time and effort things take, whether its building and fostering a community or going through a dungeon the proper way: with the tank being the tank, not the DPS or healer. its faster and more efficient to just blast through. its easier to just solo stuff and not have to look for a group for quests.

When I go random dungeons with let's say my disc priest that is overgeared, I ask them if they want to do it as a group, because they want to learn it or w/e.
I agree that nobody should be able to solo dungeons, especially low level ones, because they won't let new players to learn to tank/heal/cc it and in the end there will be a lot less good players at max level. Hell I think you shouldn't be able to solo dungeons with high ilvl gear, but that's kinda drastic change for Blizzard to make and they sure as hell won't do it.
I said that I won't heal "pull everything then run back to tank if something bad happens" kind of guys and if I go as a disc priest (low lvl), I will avoid using atonement, just to punish them for their stupidity. Maybe they will learn.
I agree with your last paragraph completelly.

[steele miller]

When I go random dungeons with let's say my disc priest that is overgeared, I ask them if they want to do it as a group, because they want to learn it or w/e.
I agree that nobody should be able to solo dungeons, especially low level ones, because they won't let new players to learn to tank/heal/cc it and in the end there will be a lot less good players at max level. Hell I think you shouldn't be able to solo dungeons with high ilvl gear, but that's kinda drastic change for Blizzard to make and they sure as hell won't do it.
I said that I won't heal "pull everything then run back to tank if something bad happens" kind of guys and if I go as a disc priest (low lvl), I will avoid using atonement, just to punish them for their stupidity. Maybe they will learn.

soloing isnt really bad... the problem comes from the people who let etiquette fly with the wind and say "fuck everyone else im here for me". people who are expecting the proper group strategy (tank tanks, healer heals, dps dps) are more in the right as thats how the etiquette dictates the group dynamic and thats how the dungeons were originally designed. if people are okay with throwing that to the wind (since it is possible) thats fine. the people who disregard the fact that theres four other people in that group are never in the right.

the different roles have their respective toolkits for a reason.

I agree with your last paragraph completelly.

the problem with the last paragraph though is that a lot of people say that the community died out because of those changes. thats not true. those changes are blizzards response to the communitys apathy. We brought this on ourselves... and despite that i do agree with their direction. content shouldnt be frustrating and progression shouldnt be masked behind "lfg [x] need [y]". streamlining certain parts of the game was a very good choice. god knows my friend cant do the level of content im comfortable with. theres a difference between genuine difficulty (like the content we saw in a good number of tbc heroics) and artificial difficulty (actively gathering a dungeon group). one is actually good for a certain group of players while the other just makes things take longer and just makes things more aggravating than they should be.

with the community and the mmo genre in general its a difficult thing to balance unless they bring in multiple difficulties at least for dungeons, which is what i would like to see. something in between challenge modes and current heroics. something like tbc-level... perhaps slightly less punishing.

[Mojibake]

Honestly (I usually tank/heal), the overeager DPS annoy the hell out of me, but I don't make a big deal about it. If I tank, I just ignore them and keep going; most tanks can nearly solo it. If I'm healing, I just ignore the dps who pull. If they survive, that's awesome, if they don't they can run back. You can save all the time you want pulling mobs, but if you die it only wastes time.

[ComputerNerd]

The guy that threatens not to heal is about as irritating as the person doing the kiting or even worse, posting such a useless topic. If you want to show off your mad skillz go solo the dungeon, if you group up then show some common decency and let people fulfil their roles even if it costs you an extra 3 minutes?

Exactly.
Players are quick to be rude about an inexperienced tank, but how often will that player get to learn the basics of that role with practical and realistic experience when overgeared and overskilled players are taking on roles they did not queue up for.
Let people learn their role, and perhaps there will be more tanks and healers available to cut your queues.

[ACES]

I don't see a problem with running ahead and killing stuff if you can. It makes the run faster for everyone. Just the other day I was in Razorfen Kraul with my Feral Druid and the tank was skipping a quest boss so I went and killed it myself. The whole group benefited because they each got their quest credit.

And if you get a group with Brazilian players sometimes it's necessary to branch off from the group or have one or two dps/healer go ahead and keep the dungeon on track because of the language barrier.

[broncorde]

Just make a macro:
"/i Hi, i have a lot of gear and i know what i'm doing. You wont have to taunt stuff off me and you wont have to heal me. I'm trying to make this faster for all of us by soloing a couple of packs :>"
And then post that at the beginning of every dungeon.
Just try to be nice and make your intentions clear. You'll be amazed how much just a little bit of communication can improve your group play

[NickV]

People will always bitch about something. It's human nature. During LK, I would queue as heals in Ele spec. Not only would no one die, but I'd top the DPS meters. Is this just a brag? Unfortunately not. I'd get people complaining all the time. "Whaa.. why aren't you in resto spec?"

When you close your eyes and reach into a bowl full of mixed nuts, sometimes you won't get a cashew. Sometimes you'll even get a Brazil nut. Either enjoy it, choke it down, or toss it in the garbage. Just don't bitch about it. If you can't handle any of those three, then stop closing your damn eyes.

[potatoe]

They need to bring back mentoring guilds.

I hear Guild Wars has a "default" guild that they put newbies in so they can learn.

Ideally they would separate the queues for the gogogo people and the "what is a tank?" newbies.
I don't see that happening though.

[Deleted]

Even if you can solo it, if you're in a group act like it. If you're too adhd to play nicely with other people then go and find another game until you can.

Just warn them that you're going to burn through it beforehand, and then they can kick you and get someone in that understands what 'group' means.

Fixed.

Actually, to be fair, if you all agree it from the start then go ahead and knock yourselves out, fair enough. But otherwise, just don't.

I absolutely hate the people who sit down and refuse to tank or heal because someone pulled a pack, even if it was the first time it happened. I was leveling my elemental shaman recently, full loomed and enchanted and I could pretty much solo the dungeons for exp (which I do every time I level an alt) but I felt like doing a random dungeon, it ended up being The Slave Pens. Now, before I continue with the story, I just wanna say that I NEVER pull packs unless I'm a tank, even if I can solo them, I just sit back and do my job which is spam chain lightning and top the meters cus totally working as intended. But anyways, back to the story, we reached the first boss and about half way through the fight I overaggro'd the tank and didn't bother moving to tank but I kept kiting the boss and dpsing, it died pretty quickly but here's where it gets funny. The tank called me a lot of horrible things because I didn't move the boss to him and let him get aggro back, I apologized even though it was not my fault yet he continued talking shit and the healer started defending him (they were from same realm and guild so no surprise there), and they both refused to heal/tank until I leave the party because they couldn't kick just yet. I didn't wanna get the deserter buff so I told them that they're wasting everyone's time and lets just quickly finish it and forget the unnecessary argument from earlier. The other dps left and the hunter stood by the tank and healer then the tank told me to go and solo the dungeon while they sit back if I can to which I was like "Okay sure" and carried on without them, when I reached the last boss they finally came to me and then kicked me just before the boss was pulled. Lucky for me, I never met people like that ever again nor do I want to.

It was your fault.

[Flymolo21]

The only time pulling more mobs irritates me is if I'm A: Out of mana and B: When said person pulling more mobs gets pissed, at me or the tank, died cause they either pulled to many or ran away from the group. Other than that I got no problem if someone does it and can kite/self heal.

[shadowmatrix]

Hello everyone I'm your tank for this dungeon. Be warned I have no tanking skills at all. Why not you ask, simple story. When I was leveling and trying to learn to tank all the players wearing heirlooms kept killing everything so I never got the chance to develop the skills needed to be a decent tank. They will be the same ones calling me a noob as I struggle through LFD. Enjoy your deaths and have a good run.

[Deleted]

But if you don't need the heals, then what's to worry about? Fuck those other guys with their king sized egos, they're probably just mad that you can do their job better than them :P

[Diber]

'lo there,

Now, I've been in several groups with my dad (He's a tank, and I'm the healer), and I've had DPS pull to their hearts content- over and over. I've healed a long time, and it's typically not too hard to keep the group up, the hard part is that my dad is trying to learn to tank, and people who don't say a word, just start pulling stuff, and then complain when I let them die so that my dad can get used to actually doing tank stuff, and not always being frustrated that he's never got aggro because a DPS is pulling first. Yes, he's a little slow, and when a DPS asked one time if he could pull faster, I started teaching him how too and we finished quite a bit quicker.

Long story short- Sometimes, the Tank is new, and unsure of the dungeon. My dad hasn't done Stratholm, or Dire Maul... So I'm telling him how to go, and what things mean. Neither of us mind when someone comes in in 'looms and asks if they can pull a second mob every pull, it's when they don't say a word, pull, and then say the tanking is crap, or the healer is bad.

Maybe communication is lacking in your stance, OP? Of course, it could just be that either or both of the healer and tank are new, or unsure of how a dungeon goes, and you could save a lot of "ego tripping" if you simply communicated.

Just my $0.02 on the subject.

[Deleted]

The point on people learning their chars is valid. I get pissed when dps pull in levelling dungeons, vengeance is hard enough to come by anyway and because of this it slows the whole group. It's far easier for a tank to chain pull for people who may well outgear him, if they have a considerable vengeance stiffy.

However, dps are meant to get their heads kicked in if they pull, the low level game is made shit for tanks because the mobs and bosses generally hit like pansies now; so any arsehole can create a mess and live to tell the tale. I'd be pretty happy if mobs hit hard enough that there was a risk of getting globalled as a dps, like some of the TBC dungs were.

I expect the same respect people extend to their MT. I do my job well, as an acknowlegment of this I don't expect dps to pull. Having levelled my last three tanks dung only I'm all out for fast runs, but some non-tanking dps seem to believe after a couple of seconds that 6 mobs ain't enough to aoe. Give me another couple of globals and I'd have pulled the extra packs, but instead I'm now running around trying to stop stuff hitting the healer, whilst he prevents the dps from dying (creating excessive healer agro).

If you dps only on your chars, you basically aren't qualifed to assess what a pita you are being with pulls. The only conditional I would place on this is that my last three chars have been tanks, so I haven't really got much experience of how bad levelling tanks are these days. I do know that I have refused to tank though, because some cockend decided to pull the first few packs of a dungeon then fail to keep them off the healer before I'd finished saying hello. If this is the type of thing you do then wind your neck in and at least give the tank a chance to demonstrate the speed they will be pulling at, by not doing so you really aren't helping the tank believe you are not just another nab.

[Halicia]

I get pissed when dps pull in levelling dungeons, vengeance is hard enough to come by anyway and because of this it slows the whole group. It's far easier for a tank to chain pull for people who may well outgear him, if they have a considerable vengeance stiffy.

you know what the difference between a tank and a dps in lowlevel dungeons is ? nothing.

a tank is only someone that can hold threat and take the hits.

biggest issue i have are 'tanks' who cry that everything is their job. 'omg im the group leader!!! i didnt WANT to tell all you noob idiots how to play the game, but blizzard MADE ME cuz im the tank!'

as a healer, i think i've told pretty much every class in the game at some point just to keep pulling cuz the default tank we got was too timid/clueless, and it was easier just to cruise and carry, rather then 'make a big stink about it'.

second biggest problem though, is when dps OR TANKS (or healers I suppose), decide to pull more then they can handle and refuse to back off after being warned that they're creating problems.

THAT is when I stop healing dps... if they continue to !@#$ up the run and pull mobs they cant solo, and/or make things difficult on the tank thru no fault of their own, i just let said person die and continue on.

[Ilara]

Tanks are more or less optional at lower level dungeons. If you pull packs you can kill yourself go ahead, if you pull packs and run around like a headless chicken shouting "lol tank pick up adds pls" then just let the tank pull.

[Christan]

It's usually the dps that decided to reroll to a tank or healer that doesn't enjoy seeing their new found power slip away. I've seen incredibly toxic situations in low level dungeons, almost always caused by healers and tanks with big egos, or premades.

i've seen this also, which is why when i was leveling my brm at the start of mop i just rolled with it.

i did call hotshots out who were doing less damage than i was(WW with fists of fury saying all of my moves were aoe, but i was playing right with BoK to keep shuffle up etc...while they were spamming sck / FoF..)

generally i rolled with it, people pick up an extra pack or few is fine by me /more exp, but if they're kiting away from me instead of towards me, or not doing any aoe damage and healer getting agro...i would call them on that also.

one person was so distraught by skipping trash in stonecore on the way to ozruk they pulled the room as i pulled the boss.
epic heals man, was down to one pack of the trash left with me rolling around to get threat on the casters, charging for interrupt stuns on portal guys etc...
melee packs following me around...were down to 1 trash pack+boss left when healer and the huntard got hit with frontal cone.
then ofc i died and the melee died(melee was pro at taking out the casters though <3

needless to say that hunter was kicked...sometimes DD really do cause problems enough that tanks/heals will be bitchy.
....i didn't feel like taking shit from anyone a few hours after that and i may have snapped at people for running ahead pulling etc...
but generally i'm pretty calm

"if it doesn't cause wipes i don't care what people do"

[Pull My Finger]

You need to understand that you look like an idiot threatening to not heal/not 'save' the fully heirloomed mage/hunter who is CCing, kiting and soloing entire packs while staying at 100%. I'm sure they'll think long and hard about it. What have you got against extra xp anway?

Not sure who you think you're talking to.

[Steampunk]

You need to understand that you look like an idiot threatening to not heal/not 'save' the fully heirloomed mage/hunter who is CCing, kiting and soloing entire packs while staying at 100%. I'm sure they'll think long and hard about it. What have you got against extra xp anway?

Perhaps the mage/hunter needs to understand manners when in a dungeon with other people? Although surely, this applies to everyone.

Despite outgearing my tanks in every dungeon I'm grinding on my Warrior, I remember not everyone has as much of a time investment as I do.

Matter of fact, some people are trying to learn a role, so later on in end game... they don't keep wiping me in a Flex Raid. Granted, last night... I was in a group for 3 or 4 dungeons where the tank pulled entire rooms and our heals kept up just fine... but that isn't the case every time.

Long story short... My advice is to anyone that would have such a viewpoint to stop being "that guy" and becoming yet another reason people don't master their roles in a group by the time they hit 90.

If a member of your group asked you to stop going rogue with the trinity... humor them, it may pay off later.