SoO Nerfs, infuriating.

[Songweaver]

Oh well. Hopefully we can have a better roster this coming Sunday so we can get Thok down before it becomes trivial. We've only had 1 and a bit nights of trying him, and if things don't go to plan we might have to kill with nerfs. Probably not though as I'm 100% he's going down. Can't be said for Siegecrafter this week though.

So, what I've learned: People like the 'hardest content in the game' to be open to people that can't kill it, for whatever reason, even though they would eventually.

Night.

You obviously don't read very well yourself. Thok will not just become trivial after these changes by any degree. Neither will Seigecrafter or Paragons. If they wanted to honestly make him trivial that would do a flat percentage nerf, and say screw the balancing crap.

Not to mention, even nerfing content to the point that is does become easy for the lower end of progression, there will always be bosses that still require following mechanics to defeat. They don't all just magically turn into stand still and burn fights. At least, not until well after the expansion become irrelevant.

[Deleted]

I would be fine with it if blizzard would stop completely exaggerating with the nerfs. What they are doing is not what I would call "adjusting" the difficulty. You do that with slight nerfs to the problematic mechanic; you don't nerf all mechanics at once. It's preferable to a blanket nerf, sure. That doesn't make it a good nerf though.

[Alvito]

Maybe we should have them not have expansions also so the people in the back of the line can catch up and do all the several month old things. Nerfs are often not needed, but they happen it isn't a new thing. If you want to beat bosses without them then pick up your pace and kill bosses before Blizzard tinkers with them because so many people complainers included haven't/can't kill them.

[Songweaver]

I would be fine with it if blizzard would stop completely exaggerating with the nerfs. What they are doing is not what I would call "adjusting" the difficulty. You do that with slight nerfs to the problematic mechanic; you don't nerf all mechanics at once. It's preferable to a blanket nerf, sure. That doesn't make it a good nerf though.

They are only adjusting certain mechanics, not nerfing all of them.

[Kazuchika]

Oh well. Hopefully we can have a better roster this coming Sunday so we can get Thok down before it becomes trivial. We've only had 1 and a bit nights of trying him, and if things don't go to plan we might have to kill with nerfs. Probably not though as I'm 100% he's going down. Can't be said for Siegecrafter this week though.

So, what I've learned: People like the 'hardest content in the game' to be open to people that can't kill it, for whatever reason, even though they would eventually.

Night.

What we've learned: You spent 5 weeks between killing Malkorok and Spoils and blame it on Blizzard and not yourselves.

[Deleted]

you dont even know how much its being nerfed yet. Could be something as little as 1%(lol) nerf on xxx ability to even a 50% nerf on it.

[Deleted]

I like how no one has replied to my post where I include links to

http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/eu/silvermoon
http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/eu/ravencrest

yet people still act as if these nerfs are to help the slow minority.

[Deleted]

As a player who is currently working on siegecrafter 25 man hc myself, it's a little dissapointing but at the same time i knew a slight nerf was inc one way or the other...oh well

[cFortyfive]

I don't think the encounters really required those nerfs but it was pretty obvious at the end of the day that nerfs were coming. I still think that they should just return to the way better system of gradual nerfs

[Avada Kedavra]

garrosh is not getting nerfed at all. has anyone pointed that out yet? didnt want to read an 8 page bitchfest.

Raid groups are largely making steady progress, but as I said, there are exceptions. Regarding Heroic difficulty in particular, it's pretty obvious that there is a very large jump in difficulty from Thok to Siegecrafter. Siegecrafter/Paragons/Garrosh are currently very close to equal in difficulty, with each presenting different challenges and guilds taking roughly the same number of attempts to defeat each. We'd rather see an upward slope in difficulty, which leaves guilds feeling like the next step is within reach given enough time and dedication, rather than a sudden jump up to a much higher difficulty plateau. That's why we're nerfing Heroic Blackfuse moderately, Paragons just a little bit, and Garrosh not at all.

The changes shouldn't be enough to meaningfully alter healer composition, but they will make some of those "combo" deaths to two damage sources overlapping a bit less likely.

I'm certain that guilds who have already defeated these encounters or who are on the verge of doing so will find that the adjustments make a big difference, but remember, that's because you've already refined a working strategy and have practiced the execution. Guilds coming into the fights for the first time will still need to handle the precise movement associated with the different Blackfuse phases, belt teams will have to learn to navigate the belt lasers consistently, and so forth. Both Blackfuse and Paragons will remain quite challenging. And then there's always Garrosh....

[Deleted]

Oh, have I actually broken everyone's argument if no one can reply to my post?

[Deleted]

I am thankful for the siegecrafter nerf as a member of a raid with only two ranged players. We managed to do Malkorok with 2 ranged/2 heal just fine. I'm certain we'd be able to down siegecrafter with the right classes, but just a boomkin and a hunter on siegecrafter = no chance. No warlock, no mage, just warriors and rogues and enh shamans. I normally wouldn't say it, but siegecrafter is a prime example of "bring the player, not the class" being completely wrong.

[clevin]

We've almost got a stable group, and now that we have, nerfs.

Your raid != all raids. I get why you're annoyed, but Blizzard can't account for every permutation of what raid groups have been going through from the world 10 guilds with highly skilled players out the door to raids with barely enough, to raids like yours who've been building up. Not to mention all the raids who've seen turnover from none to a lot.

You're taking this personally and it's simply silly to do that. Blizzard will do what they feel is best for the entire group of people who are raiding even if that isn't what is best for an individual raid.

[jasdasm]

garrosh is not getting nerfed at all. has anyone pointed that out yet? didnt want to read an 8 page bitchfest.

10man nerf would be fine. Not needed on 25man since hes already so easy its a joke

[Deja Thoris]

Oh, have I actually broken everyone's argument if no one can reply to my post?

I think most people have decided responding to you is pointless. You've really just spent 8 pages repeating yourself. You know the reasons for the nerfs and disagree with them. Others are pragmatic and accept the reasons for them (since they are backed up with solid logic and data)

At the end of the day the decision has been made. You had your time to do it at its hardest and failed (lack of organisational skill matters too it seems). Blizzard need to do something to keep raiders who are stuck engaged but all you can see is your PoV. Trust me, these bosses will still provide enough challenge for you.

[Woceip]

I'll be ignoring future posts like this at is misses the point.

So what is the point? This isn't going to change, and life will go on. What are you looking to get out of this thread except for sympathy? Because I can see little else for you to gain.

Your energy could definitely go to something more constructive. Like recruiting to complete your core.

[Deleted]

You call this nerfs? these are just slight tuning changes, a flat 5% nerf across those bosses would have changed a lot more.

Plus sorry OP, not to be a bitch but. You killed like 10 easy bosses, we did all those bosses on our 3rd alts in one night on hc.

Thokk will take you a while, you won't kill it as fast as you think, and on siege, well prepare you'll be stuck on that for months.

FYI the reason these nerfs came through makes sense, about 800 guilds are stuck on siege, about 200 of those disbanned or stopped. Out of those 600 probably 3/4th are 10 man guilds. So really don't delude yourself, with the progression you do, you probably will need those nerfs to even kill the bosses.

[Daltin]

Oh, have I actually broken everyone's argument if no one can reply to my post?

5 weeks of Christmas Break that your guild took has nothing to do with anyone's argument. You're just coming off like a whiny brat, now. "Almost having a steady group" is not the kind of groups that should be meddling in Heroics. Consider yourselves lucky you were able to get as far as you did before these changes took place.

[Deleted]

garrosh is not getting nerfed at all. has anyone pointed that out yet? didnt want to read an 8 page bitchfest.

Raid groups are largely making steady progress, but as I said, there are exceptions. Regarding Heroic difficulty in particular, it's pretty obvious that there is a very large jump in difficulty from Thok to Siegecrafter. Siegecrafter/Paragons/Garrosh are currently very close to equal in difficulty, with each presenting different challenges and guilds taking roughly the same number of attempts to defeat each. We'd rather see an upward slope in difficulty, which leaves guilds feeling like the next step is within reach given enough time and dedication, rather than a sudden jump up to a much higher difficulty plateau. That's why we're nerfing Heroic Blackfuse moderately, Paragons just a little bit, and Garrosh not at all.

The changes shouldn't be enough to meaningfully alter healer composition, but they will make some of those "combo" deaths to two damage sources overlapping a bit less likely.

I'm certain that guilds who have already defeated these encounters or who are on the verge of doing so will find that the adjustments make a big difference, but remember, that's because you've already refined a working strategy and have practiced the execution. Guilds coming into the fights for the first time will still need to handle the precise movement associated with the different Blackfuse phases, belt teams will have to learn to navigate the belt lasers consistently, and so forth. Both Blackfuse and Paragons will remain quite challenging. And then there's always Garrosh....

Why would they nerf garrosh? If people do as they should, it's the easiest heroic boss out of the last 3 tiers.

Even empress heroic, or will of the emperor were harder than garrosh, if anything the siegecrafter should have been warchief boss rofl.

[unholyness]

I'll be ignoring future posts like this at is misses the point.

Why is that? 5-6 months to down content is more than enough for a good raid group, hell it is more than double the time needed. Basically this is for people who aren't really hardcore progression guilds but just a group with a few good players mixed in with average to bad players.