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  1. #1
    Blademaster
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    thoughts about the removal of mage multidotting

    So it's been confirmed by Celestalon on twitter that mages will NOT multi dot at all in WOD
    obviously this alone is a huge nerd to proccs and straight damage output

    what do you think they're going to do to make amends?

    buff straight single target spells?
    make the single target DoT cause more procs?
    give the single target dot a large range, make it spread?

    i dunno

  2. #2
    There is no point to these threads. There's no accurate way to even theorize around one known change without knowing the 10,000 others that surround it.

    There's just too many different unknown variables.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistahwilshire View Post
    There is no point to these threads. There's no accurate way to even theorize around one known change without knowing the 10,000 others that surround it.

    There's just too many different unknown variables.
    just baffles me that no one picked a mage for the press conference testings

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkers View Post
    just baffles me that no one picked a mage for the press conference testings
    Even then it was with a much older build than the one they are playing with now so it's quite possible not much would have changed. Imagine if we'd seen a photograph and seen the level 90 talents still intact because they hadn't been worked on yet.

    Blown a gasket we would have.

    As for the removal of multi-dotting...GOOD.

    i'm all for giving our class options and a variety of abilities, but multi-dotting was a step too far.

    For one thing, it meant every ranged caster in the game with the exception of elemental shamans could multi-dot.

    For another thing, I found it led to too many issues. A pack would come along but before I dropped into my cleave rotation I'd feel obliged almost to ensure I had the targets multi-dotted.

    And that's the rub. Some classes should multi-dot. Others should cleave. Boomkins, spriests and warlocks should multi-dot.

    We have three perfectly serviceable and spec unique cleave systems. i'd rather use them than tab, dot, tab, dot,tab, dot.

  5. #5
    Good riddance to bad rubbish I say.

    There's a problem when over 50% of my globals involve spamming one dot on 3+ targets. I don't even get to play the spec most of the time, just spam my one dot on everything. It's retarded to me.
    One day you'll understand that whoring dps/hps for ranks doesn't mean you are a good player, there are many more variables that separate a great player from an average, dps/hps ain't one of them.
    <Static>, 16/16H, 13/13H 14/14H 25m

  6. #6
    Brewmaster durrtygoodz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phair View Post
    Good riddance to bad rubbish I say.

    There's a problem when over 50% of my globals involve spamming one dot on 3+ targets. I don't even get to play the spec most of the time, just spam my one dot on everything. It's retarded to me.
    With that attitude you may as well just bend over and welcome our warlock overlords into your backside
    #1 Frost Mage DPS
    My Friend Code: 4699-7676-1780 IGN: Dan

  7. #7
    There are plenty of ways in the past we've been able to compete in multi target encounters without having a dot essentially shoehorned into the class. Arcane had insane surgical burst, fire had mass combustion cleave and great scaling for Alysrazor and getting purposefully corrupted on Cho'gall, yes even frost's deepfreeze DpE ablity was extremely useful on conclave of wind.
    One day you'll understand that whoring dps/hps for ranks doesn't mean you are a good player, there are many more variables that separate a great player from an average, dps/hps ain't one of them.
    <Static>, 16/16H, 13/13H 14/14H 25m

  8. #8
    Multidotting and dot snapshotting was the only thing that made our dps specs somewhat dynamic.. and both are being removed.. along with roughly 20% of our abilities..
    im getting a feeling this expansion will remind me of tbc in more then one way.. inc 1scorch->9fireball repeat rotation.

  9. #9
    Brewmaster durrtygoodz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phair View Post
    There are plenty of ways in the past we've been able to compete in multi target encounters without having a dot essentially shoehorned into the class. Arcane had insane surgical burst, fire had mass combustion cleave and great scaling for Alysrazor and getting purposefully corrupted on Cho'gall, yes even frost's deepfreeze DpE ablity was extremely useful on conclave of wind.
    Without multi dotting the next best thing we have for cleave fights is fire, but combustion has been continuously nerfed into the ground throughout this expac. Who gives a shit about the past? The game moves on and constantly develops. In the current state of the game, with multi dotting gone we're pretty useless and boring to play on a fight like Protectors, Spoils, or Galakras.
    #1 Frost Mage DPS
    My Friend Code: 4699-7676-1780 IGN: Dan

  10. #10
    I really liked LB auto spread with Inferno Blast, wouldn't consider that multidotting if they brought it back, but perhaps it's too OP. Really augmented our cleave potential.

  11. #11
    Who gives a shit about the past?
    I do, because we had an identity back then. Spellstealing stacks on Arcaneotron was insainly fun. Getting max stacks on Nefarian, blowing cooldowns and criting him for 1.3mil arcane blast was great. We were top dogs for egg damage on Sinestra which was an extremely important dps check. No other class could touch us in single target for Beth'telac, take a web up, empty your mana bar, jump down to recharge then repeat or if you were good you'd time invisibility just right and avoid her explosion so you didn't even have to jump down. These aforementioned things is what made a mage, feel like a mage.

    I am perfectly fine with losing the ability to multi-dot as long as I get these fun things back.
    One day you'll understand that whoring dps/hps for ranks doesn't mean you are a good player, there are many more variables that separate a great player from an average, dps/hps ain't one of them.
    <Static>, 16/16H, 13/13H 14/14H 25m

  12. #12
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkers View Post
    So it's been confirmed by Celestalon on twitter that mages will NOT multi dot at all in WOD
    obviously this alone is a huge nerd to proccs and straight damage output
    ... What? Sure this is a nerf to damage (even though they'll obviously compensate elsewhere), but what the hell does this have to do with a nerf to procs?

    Also, since Mage Bombs are now tied to ONE TALENT, and therefore, are NOT mandatory in the rotation, Brain Freeze will likely be tied to something else, Fire will probably passively have Pyromaniac rolled into the spells (e.g., remove Pyromaniac and Fire just does more damage), and Arcane... well, Arcane isn't really affected.

    I honestly don't understand what you're thinking or trying to do here.

  13. #13
    I'm assuming he's talking about dotting things for AM procs as arcane, or just the fact that your trinkets have a much higher chance to proc with dots rolling on multiple targets.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkers View Post
    So it's been confirmed by Celestalon on twitter that mages will NOT multi dot at all in WOD
    obviously this alone is a huge nerd to proccs and straight damage output

    what do you think they're going to do to make amends?

    buff straight single target spells?
    make the single target DoT cause more procs?
    give the single target dot a large range, make it spread?

    i dunno
    Its all going to be balanced out dude literally the only thing you should be worried about is if you like the play style of mutidotting. I in fact do enjoy the current Mage play style, both frost and arcane as our dots are more supplemental than true mutidotting and will be sad to see it go but not enough to switch classes to a true mutidot one. However if its that big of a deal to you i suggest you do.

  15. #15
    I am Murloc! Baracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbarh View Post
    may i suggest you check out wowwiki or any similar site, it's Grom that orders the murder of Cairne

  16. #16
    I've never really enjoyed the multi-dotting play style and if they haven't changed their mind (they've been awfully quiet about it since that 1 Celestalon tweet) I'll be extremely happy. No need to worry about overall dps, they'll always make sure Mages are at least competitive.

  17. #17
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeathDefier View Post
    I'm assuming he's talking about dotting things for AM procs as arcane
    Okay, and you waste a global casting that DoT, so now, you'd just cast a normal spell and get the same proc rate anyways. What's the point? Not to mention that THE ENTIRE SPEC OF ARCANE COULD CHANGE AS WE KNOW IT, so speculation on this specific thing is 100% pointless.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathDefier View Post
    ...or just the fact that your trinkets have a much higher chance to proc with dots rolling on multiple targets.
    Trinkets won't matter as much in WoD, so that's pretty irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Monketron View Post
    I've never really enjoyed the multi-dotting play style and if they haven't changed their mind (they've been awfully quiet about it since that 1 Celestalon tweet) I'll be extremely happy. No need to worry about overall dps, they'll always make sure Mages are at least competitive.
    Agreed! Multidotting is stupid, boring, and thoughtless, unless you have Soul Swap, then it'd moderately enjoyable.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Trinkets won't matter as much in WoD, so that's pretty irrelevant.
    Pretty sure they have stated that want to keep trinkets very powerful.

  19. #19
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phair View Post
    I do, because we had an identity back then.
    A lot of people feel that classes as a whole have much less identity now. The rest of your post seems to be an advertisement for being op. The inevitable aftermath of 'no other class could touch us in single target' is nerfs. At the very least losing the ability to multi-dot sets mages apart from the multi-dot classes. And of course there will be damage adjustments for that. They may not get them right but it won't be like they just get erased and that's it either.

    Anyway, it's way too early to know how all of this will shake out since they are apparently changing everything from mob/boss damage to healing and everything between.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    A lot of people feel that classes as a whole have much less identity now. The rest of your post seems to be an advertisement for being op. The inevitable aftermath of 'no other class could touch us in single target' is nerfs.
    It actually wasn't, it was an overall personal dps gain to stay below the web and multi dot. Those that went up top were lower then those that got to stay below and it was a personal gain to hold cooldowns on sinestra eggs for the buff you get later in the encounter. You had mages do these things because we were very very good at single target burst with arcane, and cluster cleave with fire, it was our thing and it was how we defined ourselves in raid.

    The current model of "ERRYBODY CAN DO ERRYTHING" is stupid and only leads us to feel compelled to gravitate towards the classes that are slightly better at doing "everything", like warlocks for example. If you want to multi dot, then your single target should suffer, if you want to be the best at single target then your multi target capablities should suffer. If you want good aoe, then you should have to give something up etc etc etc...

    A good encounter design incorporates all these variables of types of damage needed and raid leaders should feel compelled to pick the right classes and specs for the job, which in a perfect world, would be a healthy mix of everything.
    One day you'll understand that whoring dps/hps for ranks doesn't mean you are a good player, there are many more variables that separate a great player from an average, dps/hps ain't one of them.
    <Static>, 16/16H, 13/13H 14/14H 25m

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