Will Tinkers be a class in WoW?

[Hellhowl]

Are you really basing your argument on the fact that all the NPCs that use technology to devastating effects (Blackfuse, by extension his creation of Iron Juggernaut, Brawler's guild bosses,Gelbin, Gnomeregan bosses, most goblin npcs, really, etc.) are all glorified engineers and tinkers don't actually exist? Because that's honestly ridiculous.

[Talen]

It means nothing because it's not part of any of the canon story campaigns. It only shows on custom maps/campaigns and on multiplayer games. Therefore it cannot be considered canon.

Its canon information on a canon Blizzard web site.

But...it's not canon. Seriously? What point are you even trying to prove with this that you won't even take Blizzards canon info as true?

Tinkers exist in universe and they exist in game. I'm not sure why you are trying to say Blizzard are wrong.

EJL

[Ielenia]

Its canon information on a canon Blizzard web site.
But...it's not canon. Seriously? What point are you even trying to prove with this that you won't even take Blizzards canon info as true?
Tinkers exist in universe and they exist in game. I'm not sure why you are trying to say Blizzard are wrong.
EJL

It's flavor information on a neutral unit available only on multiplayer and custom maps. Means nothing.

[Teriz]

Still an engineer.

Which is like saying Superman is still a man.

I'm betting they have no problems with it because there is no overlap at all.

Mages have no overlap at all with Enchanting? Are you kidding?

Why do I need to alter it? I have better things to do than to mess up with someone else's work.

Because you can't alter it. If you do, it will only work on your computer and the browser you're currently on. Which is why Sukhoi could see his alteration, but no one else could.

I'm talking about the same thing I've been talking since the beginning: engineering in the universe of Warcraft.

Which is what exactly? Are we talking about technology in general, or are we talking about the profession's overlap with the class? The two are not the same conversation. This thread is about a Tinker class entering the game.

[Sukhoi]

Probably the best argument in this entire thread (No sarcasm). Should have ended here. Perfect analogy. Tinkers; next class 2016.

Yep. One analogy wins it all. Youre right. Blizzards probably sitting there thinking, "Shit he dropped an iron man reference, guess its true now."

[Ielenia]

Which is like saying Superman is still a man.

Technically, he's a kryptonian. But yes, he is still a man.

Mages have no overlap at all with Enchanting? Are you kidding?

Show me where is the overlap, then? One binds magic properties items through the use of magical reagents with his enchantment knowledge, the other manipulates the mana to create spells of fire, frost and arcane.

Because you can't alter it. If you do, it will only work on your computer and the browser you're currently on. Which is why Sukhoi could see his alteration, but no one else could.

Huh. Looks like someone did what you asked. Gazlowe and Mekkatorque both show as 'engineer' on WoWPedia and WoWWiki. Funny, huh?

Which is what exactly? Are we talking about technology in general, or are we talking about the profession's overlap with the class? The two are not the same conversation. This thread is about a Tinker class entering the game.

I'm talking about the only profession/job in the world setting of Warcraft that deals with creating all kinds of technology: engineering.

[Rhamses]

The boldened part comes from being an engineer. And to transform themselves into a 'mechanical construct' it's done by: a) magic; or b) pushing a button. There is nothing complicated about it, unfortunately.

Then why have Tinkers been the only ones capable of performing this ability?

[Sukhoi]

Huh. Looks like someone did what you asked. Gazlowe and Mekkatorque both show as 'engineer' on WoWPedia and WoWWiki. Funny, huh?

Youre welcome lol

[Teriz]

Technically, he's a kryptonian. But yes, he is still a man.

He's quite a bit more than just a man though. That's the point; A Tinker is quite a bit beyond a mere engineer.

Show me where is the overlap, then? One binds magic properties items through the use of magical reagents with his enchantment knowledge, the other manipulates the mana to create spells of fire, frost and arcane.

Aren't they just "magicians"? Aren't you just using a game mechanic argument when we're talking about "lore and world settings"?

Huh. Looks like someone did what you asked. Gazlowe and Mekkatorque both show as 'engineer' on WoWPedia and WoWWiki. Funny, huh?

Quite funny, because it still remains unchanged on mine.

I'm talking about the only profession/job in the world setting of Warcraft that deals with creating all kinds of technology: engineering.

Which would be quite different than what we would see out of a potential class, and the NPCs and bosses who are clearly using something far beyond Engineering profession "ability set".

[Drilnos]

Actually it was engineers too, but a couple seconds is massive in world first kills. As mentioned nitroboosts are staple for a lot of guilds as well.

It also doesn't kill you and hasn't since er... mid cataclysm as I recall. If it fails use a minor defensive.

1.5 seconds - being generous - on a 10 minute fight - again, being generous - equates to 0.0025% more uptime. On one fight. In the entire expansion. When you're talking about one GCD in one fight in one raid, the term "massive" feels remarkably like an overstatement.

And some guilds and some people are ok with the risk of putting a dot on yourself that takes off ~75% of your hp rather than speed boost between two places which the healers are probably not covering because they are also running. Some people are not ok with that. I am one of the latter.

[Ielenia]

Then why have Tinkers been the only ones capable of performing this ability?

Where in Azeroth did that happen?

- - - Updated - - -

He's quite a bit more than just a man though. That's the point; A Tinker is quite a bit beyond a mere engineer.

He's still just a man.

Aren't they just "magicians"? Aren't you just using a game mechanic argument when we're talking about "lore and world settings"?

They're the same almost as much as a first-aid medic is to a holy priest.

Quite funny, because it still remains unchanged on mine.

Try clearing your cache. It helps.

Which would be quite different than what we would see out of a potential class, and the NPCs and bosses who are clearly using something far beyond Engineering profession "ability set".

You still haven't answered WHAT a Tinker could do that couldn't be performed by any tinker could do provided they had the same equipment. Claw tank? Give a claw tank to any shmuck and they'll do the same thing. Grenades? Any character can lob items at other characters. Robots? Any character can buy a robot. There is nothing special or unique about Tinkers.

[Teriz]

He's still just a man.

Yes, just a man that can fly, shoot lasers from his eyes, survive in the vacuum of space, and stop bullets with his eyeball. No a lot of men like that?

They're the same almost as much as a first-aid medic is to a holy priest.

No, because a first aid medic isn't using magic, and the lore of first aid and Priests aren't connected.

So please tell me, aren't an Enchanter and a Mage just magicians? Isn't Mage just a title? Isn't both the class and the profession exactly the same in terms of lore?

If you say no, you're a hypocrite.

You still haven't answered WHAT a Tinker could do that couldn't be performed by any tinker could do provided they had the same equipment.

Part of it is being able to build the equipment in the first place. For example, in the Marvel Universe there's plenty of skilled engineers in the world. However, only Tony Stark was capable of creating the Iron Man suit.

Claw tank? Give a claw tank to any shmuck and they'll do the same thing.

That's like saying you can put any shmuck behind the controls of an airplane and they can fly it just as well as a seasoned pilot. Do you know how stupid that sounds?

Grenades? Any character can lob items at other characters.

You're assuming the class would use grenades.

Robots? Any character can buy a robot.

Where can I buy a robot in WoW that would operate like a Warlock or Hunter pet? I'd love to have one.

There is nothing special or unique about Tinkers.

The abilities and attributes from WC3 and HotS make them unique and special.

[Hellhowl]

Any shmuck can pick up a weapon, any shmuck can wear some armor. Don't worry guys, I'll open a petition to get the warrior class removed.

[Ielenia]

Yes, just a man that can fly, shoot lasers from his eyes, survive in the vacuum of space, and stop bullets with his eyeball. No a lot of men like that?

The superman comparison flied off in a tangent and will get nowhere to this topic. So it ends here.

No, because a first aid medic isn't using magic, and the lore of first aid and Priests aren't connected.
So please tell me, aren't an Enchanter and a Mage just magicians? Isn't Mage just a title? Isn't both the class and the profession exactly the same?
If you say no, you're a hypocrite.

No. An enchanter uses magic to enchant items. A mage does not know how to enchant items but instead manipulates the mana to create spells of fire, frost and arcane. An enchanter cannot do that.

Part of it is being able to build the equipment in the first place. For example, in the Marvel Universe there's plenty of skilled engineers in the world. However, only Tony Stark was capable of creating the Iron Man suit.

So you admit your 'tinker' is just an engineer with wanderlust?

That's like saying you can put any shmuck behind the controls of an airplane and they can fly it just as well as a seasoned pilot. Do you know how stupid that sounds?

But they can use it, can't they?

You're assuming the class would use grenades.
Where can I buy a robot in WoW that would operate like a Warlock or Hunter pet? I'd love to have one.
The abilities and attributes from WC3 and HotS make them unique and special.

There is nothing unique to a Tinker. In Azeroth, anyone could buy grenades, robots or even a tank, if they had enough gold.

[Teriz]

No. An enchanter uses magic to enchant items. A mage does not know how to enchant items but instead manipulates the mana to create spells of fire, frost and arcane. An enchanter cannot do that.

Not according to lore. According to lore Mages also study enchanting, and both are considered "magicians".

"You're arguing using game mechanics against lore and world setting. Meaningless." -Ielenia

So you admit your 'tinker' is just an engineer with wanderlust?

It's not my Tinker, its Blizzard's Tinker.

But they can use it, can't they?

No. Unless you consider someone sitting on a runway pressing a bunch of buttons "using".

There is nothing unique to a Tinker. In Azeroth, anyone could buy grenades, robots or even a tank, if they had enough gold.

Tinkers haven't used grenades.
I'm still waiting for you to point me to a place to buy a robot pet that works like a Hunter or Warlock pet.
What does a tank have to do with this? Also where could you buy a tank in WoW?

[Ielenia]

Not according to lore. According to lore Mages also study enchanting, and both are considered "magicians".
"You're arguing using game mechanics against lore and world setting. Meaningless." -Ielenia

I'm not arguing mechanics. Enchanting is just a branch, a school of magic.

It's not my Tinker, its Blizzard's Tinker.

Blizzard made Iron Man? In all seriousness, though. Tinkers are engineers. Simple as that.

No. Unless you consider someone sitting on a runway pressing a bunch of buttons "using".

You don't understand. If you give all the tech gadgets from a tinker to a common character, he'll be able to use them without any impediment.

Tinkers haven't used grenades.
I'm still waiting for you to point me to a place to buy a robot pet that works like a Hunter or Warlock pet.
What does a tank have to do with this? Also where could you buy a tank in WoW?

Ugh. Fine, rocket missiles. >.>
You're assuming a tinker will have a robot pet. Just like you said I was assuming a tinker would use grenades. And there are engineers around Azeroth that would be willing to make a robot for someone for the right amount of gold. Again, speaking purely in world setting.

[Teriz]

I'm not arguing mechanics. Enchanting is just a branch, a school of magic.

Yes you are, because based on lore, an enchanter can eventually become a Mage someday. All they need to do is read some spellbooks. They're exactly the same.

Blizzard made Iron Man? In all seriousness, though. Tinkers are engineers. Simple as that.

Mages and Enchanters are magicians. Simple as that.

You don't understand. If you give all the tech gadgets from a tinker to a common character, he'll be able to use them without any impediment.

That's like saying if you drop the iron man armor in the medieval period, a farmer could use it instantly with no prior knowledge or training.

B.S.!

Ugh. Fine, rocket missiles. >.>
You're assuming a tinker will have a robot pet. Just like you said I was assuming a tinker would use grenades. And there are engineers around Azeroth that would be willing to make a robot for someone for the right amount of gold. Again, speaking purely in world setting.

In other words, nothing you're saying exists in the game. Thus, if Blizzard gave Tinkers robotic pets, that would be something unique that no other class does in WoW.

[Ielenia]

Yes you are, because based on lore, an enchanter can eventually become a Mage someday. All they need to do is read some spellbooks. They're exactly the same.

Yes they can. Just like any physician can read some books and study to become a surgeon. But the thing is, one does not do what the other does.

Mages and Enchanters are magicians. Simple as that.

A magician does prestidigitation, not magic. And if you mean spellcasters, so are mages and priests. They do not do the same things.

That's like saying if you drop the iron man armor in the medieval period, a farmer could use it instantly with no prior knowledge or training.
B.S.!

Yes. There would be a bit of 'aclimatizing' to the new thing, but since Iron Man's armor (since you're using that example here) is automated, it's not hard to use it.
But in all seriousness, any common person can use technological trinkets. There is nothing that binds them to the engineer to make the class unique.

In other words, nothing you're saying exists in the game. Thus, if Blizzard gave Tinkers robotic pets, that would be something unique that no other class does in WoW.

No, the point is the class doesn't exist because there is nothing unique in it. Like I said, any character with enough gold could go to an engineer and get the exact same things the 'tinker class' idea has.

[Teriz]

Yes they can. Just like any physician can read some books and study to become a surgeon. But the thing is, one does not do what the other does.

Because of game mechanics. In the game world, nothing would stop an enchanter from becoming a mage. Right?

A magician does prestidigitation, not magic.

ma·gi·cian:
noun
2. a person who is skilled in magic; sorcerer.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/magician

Synonyms for magician include Wizard, Sorceror, Enchanter.

Are you trying to go against the English language now?

Yes. There would be a bit of 'aclimatizing' to the new thing, but since Iron Man's armor (since you're using that example here) is automated, it's not hard to use it.

There would be no "aclimatizing" because there's no frame of reference for the medieval farmer to use. It would be like magic to them, and they would probably run away in complete fear instead of getting anywhere near it.

If you'd prefer a more realistic example, drop an airplane on a medieval farmer. How long do you honestly believe it would take them to fly the plane? Months? Years? Decades?

My money is on never. Why? Because they'd have no idea what it is.

But in all seriousness, any common person can use technological trinkets. There is nothing that binds them to the engineer to make the class unique.

I wouldn't call the mechas that Thermaplugg or Blackfuse pilot, or the hammer tanks that Tinkers use to be "technological trinkets". They're extremely advanced devices. I also wouldn't consider the orbital cannon that Mekkatorque uses to be a trinket either.

No, the point is the class doesn't exist because there is nothing unique in it.

More likely the class doesn't exist because Blizzard hasn't gotten to it yet.

[Ielenia]

Because of game mechanics. In the game world, nothing would stop an enchanter from becoming a mage. Right?

Not because of 'game mechanics', but because of lack of studies.

There would be no "aclimatizing" because there's no frame of reference for the medieval farmer to use. It would be like magic to them, and they would probably run away in complete fear instead of getting anywhere near it.

Except the world of Azeroth is a world where farmers use mechanic harversters, so the concept would not be anywhere near as alien to the farmer as you claim.

I wouldn't call the mechas that Thermaplugg or Blackfuse pilot, or the hammer tanks that Tinkers use to be "technological trinkets". They're extremely advanced devices. I also wouldn't consider the orbital cannon that Mekkatorque uses to be a trinket either.

Trinkets or mounts or fortresses, the point is the same. They are made by engineers.

More likely the class doesn't exist because Blizzard hasn't gotten to it yet.

Probably because its implementation is nowhere near as easy as you claim it is.