6.0 Shaman Info, Speculation, and Discussion!

[Kralljin]

To throw in my personal opinion on Elemental in Beta currently.

Echo of the Elements and Elemental Fusion really spice the Elemental rotation, there are really some points where you have to handle multiple procs (Lava Surge / Echo) while properly using the Elemental fusion stacks.

There are some downtimes and Elemental goes back to its current playstyle but those other moments are really interesting because you have to manage all those procs and buffs properly to max dps.

Though Elemental goes back to it's classic playstyle without Elemental fusion / Echo, but personally i think these 2 talents raise the skill cap slightly.

And Mastery needs a fix:

1.Currently both buffs are magical effects, they can be purged
2.16sec Duration is too low for rising heat, it sometimes falls off if you don't have enough Lava surge / echo procs

[Deleted]

And Mastery needs a fix:

1.Currently both buffs are magical effects, they can be purged
2.16sec Duration is too low for rising heat, it sometimes falls off if you don't have enough Lava surge / echo procs

1 - I'm not going to comment on the fact they are magical effects. I actually think this is intentional, but I'm going to dodge the s**t-storm of an argument that will bring until this is confirmed. We can cross our fingers for now!

2 - Depending on the damage numbers, this could also be intentional, and could not be too bad a thing, as long as the damage numbers are high enough. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they did change this though, as it would make us really heavily RNG based (but that is the reason I think it may well be an intentional thing that could happen, to leave us as one of the biggest RNGesus burst specs in the game like we are now). It would certainly improve the influence Ascendance has if this is intentional, allowing us to consistently get off a lot of Mastery procs.

[Xayl1]

1 - I'm not going to comment on the fact they are magical effects. I actually think this is intentional, but I'm going to dodge the s**t-storm of an argument that will bring until this is confirmed. We can cross our fingers for now!

2 - Depending on the damage numbers, this could also be intentional, and could not be too bad a thing, as long as the damage numbers are high enough. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they did change this though, as it would make us really heavily RNG based (but that is the reason I think it may well be an intentional thing that could happen, to leave us as one of the biggest RNGesus burst specs in the game like we are now). It would certainly improve the influence Ascendance has if this is intentional, allowing us to consistently get off a lot of Mastery procs.

I was actually thinking along the same lines just now. with the plan for us to be getting lightning strikes primarily during our normal rotation via our nature spells and then getting a shit ton of eruptions during our Ascendance by spamming lava burst or lava beam. also a quick question does any one know if the debuff gains stacks off of Multistrikes because that would mae me a very happy shaman.

[Kralljin]

1 - I'm not going to comment on the fact they are magical effects. I actually think this is intentional, but I'm going to dodge the s**t-storm of an argument that will bring until this is confirmed. We can cross our fingers for now!

Magical buffs which are generated at an inflationary rate are usually not good in PvP, because dispelling suddenly becomes an even greater gamble and could backfire on us by perma purging, which would render mastery useless.

2 - Depending on the damage numbers, this could also be intentional, and could not be too bad a thing, as long as the damage numbers are high enough. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they did change this though, as it would make us really heavily RNG based (but that is the reason I think it may well be an intentional thing that could happen, to leave us as one of the biggest RNGesus burst specs in the game like we are now). It would certainly improve the influence Ascendance has if this is intentional, allowing us to consistently get off a lot of Mastery procs.

The issue is that it is forcing you into EotE, because it increases the amount of Lvb's by a decent amount, without EotE it becomes rather difficult to acquire 3 stacks without a serious amount of Mastery or Lava Surge proc luck.

And if Rising heat should be a hardhitter, it could cause serious pvp issues.

But by reading over the tooltip for a 2nd time, it should also proc from FS, which should include FS ticks, but this portion seems to be bugged on Beta, at least from my observation.


Different discussion, though, i hope they might change unleashed fury to a passive effect or redesign this talent, in my view unleashed fury and Elemental Blast are too similiar from a PvE standpoint, their cd is too similiar and both are pretty much limited to single target.

[Deleted]

Magical buffs which are generated at an inflationary rate are usually not good in PvP, because dispelling suddenly becomes an even greater gamble and could backfire on us by perma purging, which would render mastery useless.

As I said, I'm going to dodge this for now. Will talk about my reasons why I think it could be a good idea if it does actually turn out to be intended.

The issue is that it is forcing you into EotE, because it increases the amount of Lvb's by a decent amount, without EotE it becomes rather difficult to acquire 3 stacks without a serious amount of Mastery or Lava Surge proc luck.

I'm going to wait and see on this one. I can certainly see this being the case at the start of the expansion when our Haste and Mastery levels are not too great, but I wouldn't be surprised if Echo falls off the later we go, or if the scaling of Rising Heat is balanced correctly, Elemental Mastery actually works out to be the best to coincide with Ascendance to get huge damage out by getting loads of Rising Heat procs off in that time.

And if Rising heat should be a hardhitter, it could cause serious pvp issues.

No more so than our current implementation. Currently we have both Mastery AND Echo that can proc off a Lava Burst cast, and then Echo can again proc off the Mastery. We are in no way broken in PvP. I don't think Rising Heat would make us broken after the loss of both of those (Multistrike is weaker than Mastery is damage wise by a significant amount, and we lose Echo procs altogether). Our damage will be more consistent than it is currently, with more Lava Burst casts, but far less spikey.

But by reading over the tooltip for a 2nd time, it should also proc from FS, which should include FS ticks, but this portion seems to be bugged on Beta, at least from my observation.[/quote]

I'm surprised FlS ticks don't proc it, the tooltip certainly reads like they should. Will need some clarification on if its intended to only be direct damage.

Different discussion, though, i hope they might change unleashed fury to a passive effect or redesign this talent, in my view unleashed fury and Elemental Blast are too similiar from a PvE standpoint, their cd is too similiar and both are pretty much limited to single target.

I think if any of the talents in that tier need a redesign it is EB, as it is literally useless for Resto, but that is just me.

[Kralljin]

I'm going to wait and see on this one. I can certainly see this being the case at the start of the expansion when our Haste and Mastery levels are not too great, but I wouldn't be surprised if Echo falls off the later we go, or if the scaling of Rising Heat is balanced correctly, Elemental Mastery actually works out to be the best to coincide with Ascendance to get huge damage out by getting loads of Rising Heat procs off in that time.

Possibly.

The problem is that EotE has a great synergy with Elemental fusion, which will probably become the best talent for single target and multi dot fights.

No more so than our current implementation. Currently we have both Mastery AND Echo that can proc off a Lava Burst cast, and then Echo can again proc off the Mastery. We are in no way broken in PvP. I don't think Rising Heat would make us broken after the loss of both of those (Multistrike is weaker than Mastery is damage wise by a significant amount, and we lose Echo procs altogether). Our damage will be more consistent than it is currently, with more Lava Burst casts, but far less spikey.

It is pretty hypothetical to talk about this but i've interpretated that Rising heat should hit really hard if it's supposed to fall off sometimes, combine it with the Lava burst which will trigger the 3rd stack and then you'll dish out serious blows with a single cast.

I think if any of the talents in that tier need a redesign it is EB, as it is literally useless for Resto, but that is just me.

There was a tweet about changing EB for Resto, which is obviously more than needed, but i think it is fine for Elemental / Enhance.

But UF and EB are too similiar in terms of usage because there is hardly any practical difference between these 2 talents, at least for Elemental.

[Deleted]

There was a tweet about changing EB for Resto, which is obviously more than needed, but i think it is fine for Elemental / Enhance.

But UF and EB are too similiar in terms of usage because there is hardly any practical difference between these 2 talents, at least for Elemental.

I agree, in any situation where UF is better pure numbers wise than EB, you will always pick UF. That is why UF needs to be worse numbers wise, so that you have a choice between the damage of EB and the movement/instant cast (no lock out for PvP) of UF. If they just flat out reworked EB, it would be beneficial to all specs I think.

[Lavindar]

I agree, in any situation where UF is better pure numbers wise than EB, you will always pick UF. That is why UF needs to be worse numbers wise, so that you have a choice between the damage of EB and the movement/instant cast (no lock out for PvP) of UF. If they just flat out reworked EB, it would be beneficial to all specs I think.

I feel Elemental Blast is a lot of fun to have in the rotation of Elemental Combat, but when I am playing Enhancement I really dislike it, can't say from experience, but it doesn't sounds very good to Restoration too, they could maybe change it to be baseline to Elemental Combat, or better yet, use the per-spec thing of talents, leave Elemental Blast to Elemental Combat and something else for Restoration and Enhancement. But I am not that concerned as I am a huge fan of Primal Elementalist anyway

[Blithe]

To throw in my personal opinion on Elemental in Beta currently.

Echo of the Elements and Elemental Fusion really spice the Elemental rotation, there are really some points where you have to handle multiple procs (Lava Surge / Echo) while properly using the Elemental fusion stacks.

There are some downtimes and Elemental goes back to its current playstyle but those other moments are really interesting because you have to manage all those procs and buffs properly to max dps.

Though Elemental goes back to it's classic playstyle without Elemental fusion / Echo, but personally i think these 2 talents raise the skill cap slightly.

And Mastery needs a fix:

1.Currently both buffs are magical effects, they can be purged
2.16sec Duration is too low for rising heat, it sometimes falls off if you don't have enough Lava surge / echo procs

1. This isn't intentional, I'm quite sure it's getting changed next build.
2. IIRC, Celestalon said the duration is supposed to be 30 seconds, but I'm not sure.

- - - Updated - - -

I feel Elemental Blast is a lot of fun to have in the rotation of Elemental Combat, but when I am playing Enhancement I really dislike it, can't say from experience, but it doesn't sounds very good to Restoration too, they could maybe change it to be baseline to Elemental Combat, or better yet, use the per-spec thing of talents, leave Elemental Blast to Elemental Combat and something else for Restoration and Enhancement. But I am not that concerned as I am a huge fan of Primal Elementalist anyway

I wish Elemental Blast were baseline for Elemental already as it feels like it removes a hole in the rotation or priority somewhat. For Enhancement, outside of PvP it feels very clunky (a short-cooldown ability tied to MSW feels odd) and it's currently and probably still will be useless for Restoration which it has been for an entire expansion.

[Nebria]

please STOP to ask for elemental blast baseline for elemental.
it is fine as it is. ask for new talents on that spot for enhance or resto if you want. doesn't matter for me.
but to not have an option to change my rotation as I want it and when I want it is just bad.

[Blithe]

please STOP to ask for elemental blast baseline for elemental.
it is fine as it is. ask for new talents on that spot for enhance or resto if you want. doesn't matter for me.
but to not have an option to change my rotation as I want it and when I want it is just bad.

I'll ask as much as I want, thank you very much.

[Recom]

Just to be clear, currently you have to generate all the stacks in a 16sec window ? Getting a new stack doesn't refresh the timer ?
I understand why they added a timer but that seriously blows if it's the case, anything over 25sec would be fine though.

[Deleted]

Just to be clear, currently you have to generate all the stacks in a 16sec window ? Getting a new stack doesn't refresh the timer ?
I understand why they added a timer but that seriously blows if it's the case, anything over 25sec would be fine though.

I'm not on beta so I can't say 100%, but I am fairly certain getting a new stack would refresh the buff duration, just like it does for every other stacking buff.

[shamantime]

I'm not on beta so I can't say 100%, but I am fairly certain getting a new stack would refresh the buff duration, just like it does for every other stacking buff.

The stacks do refresh from what I saw from a beta stream.

[Totemtown]

Im sad i dont got a beta key(

[Protoman]

I've been getting a few replies from Celestalon about Shaman mobility and ULE: https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...72430121226240

They still won't give any buffs to mobility, its very annoying. Some dummy mentioned Frost shock and GW as if those do anything.... then celestalon mentioned spirit walk and the new sprint on ULE. I told him it makes more sense to have the sprint on a new ability instead of tied to ULE which will prob be used on cd. I also mentioned how I feel ULE should still keep its damage, just like Judgements are damage+buff. Then he mentions how there is still "effective damage" (which I hate hearing).... considering how few weapon damage abilities enhance has, ULE doing damage is important.... plus it works for Elem, and an extra heal for Resto. Way more useful with some instant effect (that can proc abilities or trinks too). People started saying why not just make it a self cast buff (which I don't want either, the 40yd range makes for a useful pull).

Very annoying trying to get thru to devs who seem to have already made up their mind on things.

[shamantime]

That's unbelievably annoying. Ghost Wolf and Frost Shock are nothing compared to what other classes have, a 30% increase and a slow(and with this speed increase we have to glyph to gain snare immunity, whilst Mages can blink out of roots and stuns, and druids have near 100% immunity to polys and roots.) , so many other specs have a slow or a mobility that is above 30%. Not to mention the obscenity of linking a movement enhancement to a damage/healing increase that will be use on CD.

[jayinjersey]

My argument would be "there are times I want to use ULE but the movement speed buff would be detrimental"...IE the maze on that eyeball guy in ToT comes to mind. Can't think of how many times our healer killed me by giving me bubble speed and me running right into the maze cause I'm accustomed to a certain speed.

[Lavindar]

My argument would be "there are times I want to use ULE but the movement speed buff would be detrimental"...IE the maze on that eyeball guy in ToT comes to mind. Can't think of how many times our healer killed me by giving me bubble speed and me running right into the maze cause I'm accustomed to a certain speed.

That is one the main reason I don't like the speed buff being tied with Unleash Elements.

[Kralljin]

My argument would be "there are times I want to use ULE but the movement speed buff would be detrimental"...IE the maze on that eyeball guy in ToT comes to mind. Can't think of how many times our healer killed me by giving me bubble speed and me running right into the maze cause I'm accustomed to a certain speed.

We're talking about a 30% speed buff, a 60% speed buff is a different story.