6.0 Shaman Info, Speculation, and Discussion!

[Darksoldierr]

So how much does the Mealstorm Change effects enhance? What is the current chance to gain a proc on live?

[Hekili]

Ugh MW nerf and searing buff.

Less active damage and more boring passive stupid pet on a stick damage. Fuck that.

Eh, the Searing Totem change helps up the value of haste again, so it's more of a way to adjust our benefits from secondary stats.

I think the decreased MW proc chance will give us slightly more flexibility with when he have to hit LB, and slightly lowers the risk of overcapping MW during movement. The secondary issue with diminishing our self-heals even further is a bigger problem than mashing a handful fewer LBs over the course of a fight. Overall, I don't see these changes as being particularly problematic.

[Protoman]

No EB is currently not balanced at all. UF is 1800 dps gain over no talent and EB is only 600 dps gain.

So EB is just extremely weak.

And EB already has special perks ( affected by SS and main stat Proc added). There is a problem since they nerfed EB for enhancers by 50%. Adding flurry to EB might solve the Problem.

Where did it say EB is nerfed by 50% for Enhance? I have never heard of that before....

Is it from this guys post here?:

http://wod.wowhead.com/spell=30814

Effect #5. They've made the talent artificially weak, but no one knows why.

That -50% for EB on Effect #5 has confused me too. I know the values above come from the earlier version of the MQ passive.... with -75%mana on spells and -90%mana on shocks.... but the modifier for EB wasn't there before. I guess it means that EB does half the damage for Enh as it does for Ele/Resto.... dunno why that is tho, I don't remember it being nerfed for Enhance before.

EB has always been something good for single target bursty damage.... like in PVP. Don't forget that it can be buffed with ULE, for 40% more damage thru ULE FT.

I'm sure there is still alot of tuning that needs to be done for damage, such as for EB compared to the other talents in its row..... but I am curious about why EB apparently has a 50% nerf for Enhance only.


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Also... I still hate the lvl100 talents (and L45 talents). For L100, I wish they scrapped em all and just redesigned them, and for L45 redesign the whole tier with a different theme (like mobility) and make Totem Projection and Totem Persistance talents baseline.

We don't need another Elemental totem like SET honestly, and with a 1min duration it will interfere with our other utility Air totems. This is why we NEED totem talents like Totemic Persistance and Projection on L45 tier to become baseline. New totems, esp with long durations or cd's, become very clunky and awkward to use when they clash with other totems in the same element or can be easily put out of range during a mobile encounter. With Totemic Persistance, we can use our 1min duration Storm Ele but also use a totem like Grounding or SLT or CPT when it's needed and not have to waste Storm Ele's 5min cd.... plus can move the SET incase the boss teleports to the other corner of the room or something.

The EF talent just seems so damn boring and plain for a LVL 100 talent, is this really an ultimate tier talent, stronger shocks??? They took Earth Shock away from Enhance, which makes ZERO sense to me... because atleast then we could get a buffed ES with the EF talent plus our SS nature crit buff. It's stupid to be stuck with Frost Shock since it has no synergy with anything else and no damage modifiers like ES does for Elem. Elem can atleast get a real super shock by using their buffed ES w/ fulmination plus the EF talent.

Liquid Magma totem just seems lame too, especially since it targets a random enemy... not your primary target or the one with the SS debuff or anything. The AoE should be a little wider, 4yds is super small.... maybe like 8yds.... and AGAIN another reason why they need to scrap the L45 totem talent tier and make Totemic Projection and Persistance baseline. You will need Totemic Proj. to properly utilize LM totem and move it incase the AoE pack you put it on moves or dies and you have to relocate it quickly.

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Ugh MW nerf and searing buff.

Less active damage and more boring passive stupid pet on a stick damage. Fuck that.

They should be nerfing the stupid amount of damage skilless abilities like fire ele do, not buffing the others.

So how much does the Mealstorm Change effects enhance? What is the current chance to gain a proc on live?

I agree, we need more active damage.... I don't really mind the buffs to Searing/Magma totems and having them scale with haste.... chances are it will prob still be a small part of our overall damage. I'm not sure how the proc chance is in beta, I would assume it fully stacks ~8sec..... but I don't like how much of our overall damage is being done by LB vs our other active abilities. Whenever we rely too much on LB, it ends up badly for Enhance's damage output in more mobility heavy raid bosses or PVP (which has lots of mobility, less melee on our target, and trading MW5 for heals).

I want to see our other damage abilities do more... stuff like SS, LL, shocks. This is another reason why I am REALLY annoyed that they took the damage off ULE.... we NEED that damage on ULE, as it would give another important source of weapon damage with that awesome 40yd range.

[Omanley]

Can someone do a rough estimate on how much of our damage consists of ST (enh, single target), with the 120% damage buff and the additional scaling?

-The cast time change is essentially a 25% nerf.
-The damage buff adds 120% to that.
-If we assume a..let's say, 0.2 cast time decrease for every raiding tier, it'd be 1.8s cast, so the 25% nerf above would be a 15% nerf, for the first tier.

=>187% of the original damage. So ST would be almost doubled in it's current damage, according to my napkin math. How much in % does it currently do?


edit: If totems do a big chunk of our damage, MT/ST better be mobile in WoD. Having to constantly replant them (esp in pvp) to get like 20% of our damage would be horrible. Dont forget that fire totem damage doesn't stack with FET also, so it is a big nerf to both enh burst AND survivability in pvp.

The problem with LB is that it (the spell, not it as a damage source being to high in percentage) deals to much damage as enhancement. Lower the damage, allow msw stacking to 10 or more while keeping the 5 stacks max spending limit, and maybe taking msw casts of the gcd, and be allowed while moving, would be a nice change. And add that nerfed LB damage on SS/LL, obviously.


How come with all that pruning they want to do, enh has even worse damage split between abilities than in WoD? SS/LL have to firmly represent the top, as melee.

[Nebria]

Liquid Magma totem just seems lame too, especially since it targets a random enemy... not your primary target or the one with the SS debuff or anything. The AoE should be a little wider, 4yds is super small.... maybe like 8yds.... and AGAIN another reason why they need to scrap the L45 totem talent tier and make Totemic Projection and Persistance baseline. You will need Totemic Proj. to properly utilize LM totem and move it incase the AoE pack you put it on moves or dies and you have to relocate it quickly.

I think you misunderstand how LM works. The flows have a range of 40 yards. The splash damage they do has a range of 4 yards. You don't need to project your fire totem around.

This is another reason why I am REALLY annoyed that they took the damage off ULE.... we NEED that damage on ULE, as it would give another important source of weapon damage with that awesome 40yd range.

I think it was good they removed the damage cause now I can use the speed buff even without a target.

We don't need another Elemental totem like SET honestly, and with a 1min duration it will interfere with our other utility Air totems. This is why we NEED totem talents like Totemic Persistance and Projection on L45 tier to become baseline. New totems, esp with long durations or cd's, become very clunky and awkward to use when they clash with other totems in the same element or can be easily put out of range during a mobile encounter. With Totemic Persistance, we can use our 1min duration Storm Ele but also use a totem like Grounding or SLT or CPT when it's needed and not have to waste Storm Ele's 5min cd.... plus can move the SET incase the boss teleports to the other corner of the room or something.

plan around it. in PvE it is possible. In PvP well take the talent persistance or be careful or take another talent? it is you decision if you sacrifice your dmg cd for utility. same when you use a cd and have to go defence and can't use it for offence cause you have to heal or run away

The EF talent just seems so damn boring and plain for a LVL 100 talent, is this really an ultimate tier talent, stronger shocks???

I don't find it boring I just think it doesn't is what I expected: change the playstyle of ele slightly. I mean strong shocks after 2 LvB means I can't spend it that often cause of shock cd, fs is already on target and ES has not enough stacks yet. So I'm not sure what it is intended for.
The situation where I found it interesting was in PvP cause I have to spread my shocks be hand as Ele and so I can get strong FS everywhere. If it would change the shock mechanic slightly, like you get LS stacks much faster, it would be more clear what to do with it.

[papajohn4]

To be honest I have not read all pages of the thread but from beta patch notes so far I try to understand how ability pruning affected Enhancement Shaman...it seems that we will still have all the rotation spells we have currently? Don't get me wrong, I can do the rotation..I made some nice Weak auras and I can execute the rotation but if you asked me to chose 1 spec of all classes that needed ability pruning that is enhancement shaman. How will be the rotation in WoD?

[Raiju]

To be honest I have not read all pages of the thread but from beta patch notes so far I try to understand how ability pruning affected Enhancement Shaman...it seems that we will still have all the rotation spells we have currently? Don't get me wrong, I can do the rotation..I made some nice Weak auras and I can execute the rotation but if you asked me to chose 1 spec of all classes that needed ability pruning that is enhancement shaman. How will be the rotation in WoD?

Your earth shock will look more blue

Your ascendance will look less flashy

You may have procs causing your abilities to come off frequently depending on amount of mobs / talent choice.

Pruning? Who needs pruning

[Omanley]

Yeah, we're like an enourmous thicket of thorns, impossible to prune

[Grimbold21]

Ugh great....another reason to be forced into the haste...

[Emophia]

If the Magma totem buff means a fire nova nerf I'll be so pissed, Enhc AOE is already insane on beta, why give us more? I'd rather have fire nova damage than clunky magma totem damage anyday, the latter would be especially a pita without totemic projection, which should be baseline already and that whole tier scrapped.

And ascendance is so lame now for enhc, why don't they just remove it? I see people pop it on beta and it barely seems to make a difference in PVP. I'm not complaining, I prefer sustained over burst and was never a real fan of it anyways so I'd be glad if they did actually.

I lived with being that ugly ele lord thing because ascendance is insane on live, but now that it just gives you range and arpen (the former is kind of dumb for a melee in PVP and shouldn't even exist imo) They should just remove it and put its damage into feral spirits or the shaman itself.

And yeah, our level 100 talents baring lava floes are lame as fuck, totally should be redone.

[Kralljin]

Yea I still don't like how they are forcing EQ on Shaman. In the WoW Shaman threads, a lot of the people are saying how awkward it is with EQ in the AoE rotation and how they want something smoother.

I think Celestalon stated that Elemental AoE Dps should be coming mostly from Cl and by just AoE'ing with Cl, you should pull decent Dps.

EQ should be a serious Dps gain if it's possible to use, but not mandatory for decent AoE Dps.

You won't be able to use it in every situation. It'll take a lot of skill and planning to use effectively. It may even require some cooperation from your tank, depending upon the situation. When all of those criteria aren't met, it's fine, you still have Chain Lightning to fall back on, and you'll still do totally solid DPS that way, and it's incredibly easy to use, in virtually any situation. But when all of those pieces *do* line up, the payoff should be extremely strong.[i] It's an additional bonus [i]on top of your expected AoE DPS.

The key is that that's exactly *not* what I said. Not using Earthquake, you'll be competitive. Earthquake is a bonus.

Current numbers don't support this; Earthquake is very high damage now and on mastery to boot. Should we expect Earthquake to be tuned down, and Chain Lightning tuned higher in upcoming patches?

Probably, yes.

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/3...ated-feedback/

Personally, i think the first and best move would be that Mastery no longer affects EQ and move it towards Cl, if it's a flat increase or some kind of Multi shot thing is up to debate but Cl is still far too weak.

Cl should definitely interact with Molten Earth because of Cleave Dps, should be a *niche* for Elemental.

Probably comes around when they tune AoE Dps, before that I'll expect nothing in regard of that topic.

[Deleted]

Celestalon writes a lot of stuff when the day is long. Most of it is pure BS. Like I previously posted, they wont redesign talents (skills) at this stage anymore - which was confirmed by todays news post.

[Deleted]

If the Magma totem buff means a fire nova nerf I'll be so pissed, Enhc AOE is already insane on beta, why give us more?

FN has been doing more damage than it should be for several builds now. The Magma buff itself doesn't translate into a FN nerf, but the fact that as long as you have 2 targets next to each other forces you to drop FrS from the rotation and replace it with FN. That's how broken it is atm.

[Emophia]

FN has been doing more damage than it should be for several builds now. The Magma buff itself doesn't translate into a FN nerf, but the fact that as long as you have 2 targets next to each other forces you to drop FrS from the rotation and replace it with FN. That's how broken it is atm.

Well, the fact that frost shock does like literally no damage probably has as much to do with that as how op fire nova is.

I just don't want any significant portion of our AOE to be done by magma, and single target to by done by searing.

[LTCrystallite]

I can't stand that they're so dedicated to forcing Magma Totem. It's not good! ITS NEVER BEEN GOOD! ITS NOT FUN TO USE AND DEALS PITIFUL DAMAGE BECAUSE IF ITS DESIGN (spammable, lasts a minute).

I'm not sure what this buff means, but it might feel better if it's boosted by haste and deals 100% more damage like it states. It's just soooo annoying to swap between magma and searing, there's never been anything fun, skillful, or compelling about this. It's just dumb.

To me, it's all "Hey, do you wanna replace a totem that can shoot from 25 yards away, but be forced to redrop it for a small AoE radius totem, only to need to swap it again later? They should have made it a cooldown AoE skill a long time ago.

Between SS, LL, UE, Shocks, MWs and other talents/skill usage, swapping between two passive sticks in the ground just isn't interesting at all.

[Deleted]

I can't stand that they're so dedicated to forcing Magma Totem. It's not good! ITS NEVER BEEN GOOD! ITS NOT FUN TO USE AND DEALS PITIFUL DAMAGE BECAUSE IF ITS DESIGN (spammable, lasts a minute).

I'm not sure what this buff means, but it might feel better if it's boosted by haste and deals 100% more damage like it states. It's just soooo annoying to swap between magma and searing, there's never been anything fun, skillful, or compelling about this. It's just dumb.

To me, it's all "Hey, do you wanna replace a totem that can shoot from 25 yards away, but be forced to redrop it for a small AoE radius totem, only to need to swap it again later? They should have made it a cooldown AoE skill a long time ago.

Between SS, LL, UE, Shocks, MWs and other talents/skill usage, swapping between two passive sticks in the ground just isn't interesting at all.

im not sure what i think tbh. My instant thought is that they have cut abilities so deep that they are now trying to add in unnecessary complexity to try and balance it out.

[Schizoide]

I agree, I'm very unhappy with the magma totem buff. I would prefer it to be removed from the game entirely, or remain low damage so I don't feel compelled to use it.

[Deleted]

Meh, would rather have a damage buff to SS or LL instead off Magma Totem... but ok i will take it i guess.

MSW proc change nerf : Not to bad for PVE perhaps due to reduced change of wasting charge's but i do see a problem with PvP due to less Healing Surges.

Searing Totem : Well.. at least we don't have Searing Flame's anymore tough it's wierd passive damage yet again. I thought they wanted to move from that.

[withoutaname]

New spell added
Searing Magma Totem
Drops a fire totem at the feet of the caster which throws flames at enemy. The intense heat of the flame thrown emits a wave that damages nearby targets.
Why can't blizz just merge the two totems by now?

[Hekili]

I don't mind Magma Totem having its strength increased. I wish it were a little less unwieldy. Trap Launcher for totems would be a godsend, instead of hoping that the totem you drop a few yards away at a 45 degree angle to yourself is going to pulse a large enough radius to actually hit the stuff that you want it to.