6.0 Shaman Info, Speculation, and Discussion!

[Zendru]

New spell added
Searing Magma Totem
Drops a fire totem at the feet of the caster which throws flames at enemy. The intense heat of the flame thrown emits a wave that damages nearby targets.
Why can't blizz just merge the two totems by now?

Sounds a little like their plan with liquid magma totem but sped up for burst aoe instead of long sustained.

[Eliot123]

*looks at wind shear*
*looks at beta unleash elements and unleshed fury talent*

''Because it muddles the purpose of the ability and was completely pointless.''

...these people are mentally challenged.

[Raiju]

As much as wind shears threat drop was *near* useless, you'd think when they actually came to addressing it they would actually give us a proper threat reduction/drop.

I have resorted to either asking for salv on pull or using a gateway prepull to stop overaggroing due to lucky burst in the first 5-10 seconds.

[Nitwit]

you'd think when they actually came to addressing it they would actually give us a proper threat reduction/drop.

Well, they nerfed ascendance, and they gave us improved reincarnation as a leveling perk.

[Raiju]

sadly improved reincarnation does make it more valid in raids... sort of *sigh*

[Deleted]

As much as wind shears threat drop was *near* useless, you'd think when they actually came to addressing it they would actually give us a proper threat reduction/drop.

I have resorted to either asking for salv on pull or using a gateway prepull to stop overaggroing due to lucky burst in the first 5-10 seconds.

Its no different. No-one used Wind Shear for a threat dump anyway. The threat it dropped was less than a single tick of Flame Shock generated IIRC. It wasn't near useless, it WAS useless.

*looks at wind shear*
*looks at beta unleash elements and unleshed fury talent*

''Because it muddles the purpose of the ability and was completely pointless.''

...these people are mentally challenged.

It didn't give any benefit at all really, and just made the ability more complicated than it needed to be. We lose nothing by removing it, but it reduces the complexity of the spell. The choice of mobility vs damage from UE with UF is actually benefits for either choice. With Wind Shear absolutely no-one used one of its 'benefits', so it was removed. It muddled the ability and was completely pointless, exactly like they said. Not the case for UE.

[Emophia]

Eh, maybe it's placebo but I feel like Wind shear threat drop saved my life on many trash/adds and I used all the time if I got aggro.

If it was that useless instead of removing it they should have just buffed the threat drop.

[Deleted]

Eh, maybe it's placebo but I feel like Wind shear threat drop saved my life on many trash/adds and I used all the time if I got aggro.

If it was that useless instead of removing it they should have just buffed the threat drop.

Only lowers the threat on the target you cast it on, not everything like most (all?) other threat drops, and the threat loss is tiny. Definitely a placebo.

I would personally love a threat drop though, especially as they are making threat much less of a thing these days. Maybe bake it in too Shamanistic Rage (possibly strange that going into a rage makes enemies less threatened by you, but explained by being scared of you or something)?

[Schizoide]

Wind Shear is a 5% total threat drop. That's actually not tiny, since you need to exceed the tank's threat by 10% (in melee range) or 30% (>5 yds range) to get aggro. The problem is that with today's huge tank threat multipliers the only time this could possibly happen is at the very beginning of a pull (when 5% won't help), or when the tank dies and there's no offtank (which is a wipe anyway). Or you attack untanked mobs, which is really your own fault.

[Deleted]

Wind Shear is a 5% total threat drop. That's actually not tiny, since you need to exceed the tank's threat by 10% (in melee range) or 30% (>5 yds range) to get aggro. The problem is that with today's huge tank threat multipliers the only time this could possibly happen is at the very beginning of a pull (when 5% won't help), or when the tank dies and there's no offtank (which is a wipe anyway). Or you attack untanked mobs, which is really your own fault.

Oh really its 5%? TIL

Regardless though, 5% is still pretty insignificant. I've never used it for a threat dump since the threat dump was put in. Blizzard clearly agrees that the threat dump portion is pointless.

[Schizoide]

Well, I do a lot of world boss raids in oQ for mounts, and often someone's 90 boost paladin tank dies on Galleon or whatever, and I use wind shear then. It's not completely useless. But everybody is losing their threat dumps, so it makes sense that we lose ours too. It's not a big deal.

[Static]

Warlocks still have Soulshatter. Mages have Ice Block. Hunters have Feign Death. And so on. So no, not everybody lost their threat dump skills.

[Schizoide]

Do they? Earlier patch notes said Soul Shatter was removed, but you're right, it's there now.

Feign and immunities don't count as they do more than just drop threat.

[Kralljin]

Warlocks still have Soulshatter. Mages have Ice Block. Hunters have Feign Death. And so on. So no, not everybody lost their threat dump skills.

The comparison works only for Soul Shatter because its only purpose is to reduce aggro.

Ice Block is a temporary threat dump, your aggro jumps back on the original level after Ice blocks runs off, sure it can save your ass when you get aggro, but merely gives some the tank some time to catch on while you lose damage.

Feign Death, they probably retain the aggro thing because the purpose of this ability is to survive a wipe in PvE, designing it that the boss resets if you're still alive but ignores threat reduction while other people are alive for the sake of removing threat seems awfully stupid.

Lastly, personally i find this threat dump discussion pointless, sure it was sometimes useful but while doing any halfway serious content, drawing aggro from your tank is a small miracle even during Burst, if it happens you're vastly overgeared compared to other tank or the tank is just brain afk.

Personally, i don't care, they could have kept it or removed it, doesn't matter to me.

[Deleted]

I usually even hate reading your posts, but the bullshit-o-meter is once again reached.

The comparison works only for Soul Shatter because its only purpose is to reduce aggro.

And Invisibility, Feign Death... and both Ice Block & Deterrence will safe your life. Same goes for Dispersion.

Ice Block is a temporary threat dump, your aggro jumps back on the original level after Ice blocks runs off, sure it can save your ass when you get aggro, but merely gives some the tank some time to catch on while you lose damage.

Ever heard of taunt? This spells give the tank enought time to react to the situation.. it even gives more than enought time.

Feign Death, they probably retain the aggro thing because the purpose of this ability is to survive a wipe in PvE, designing it that the boss resets if you're still alive but ignores threat reduction while other people are alive for the sake of removing threat seems awfully stupid.

They pruned a Paladin ability a few expansions ago, which basically only had the reason to servive a wipe.

Lastly, personally i find this threat dump discussion pointless, sure it was sometimes useful but while doing any halfway serious content, drawing aggro from your tank is a small miracle even during Burst, if it happens you're vastly overgeared compared to other tank or the tank is just brain afk.

Personally, i don't care, they could have kept it or removed it, doesn't matter to me.

Did you even have beta access? Sometimes I even think you never even played a Shaman. Threat is an issue currently in beta, and so it'll be in early raiding and CMs. People are asking for an equal tool kit, which they deny us all the time. We want to be competitive and equal, which we once again wont be in WoD, cause of stupid morons in the design team and people like you posting stuff like this.

[jayinjersey]

Full heroic geared now and I can still pull off our heroic geared pally at the pull if I don't watch myself


But then again...I'm Enhance and burst around 2M on those pulls (according to my Skada meter)

[Deleted]

Full heroic geared now and I can still pull off our heroic geared pally at the pull if I don't watch myself


But then again...I'm Enhance and burst around 2M on those pulls (according to my Skada meter)

No you can't. A large part of our damage comes from our Fire Elementals and they don't count towards aggro. If we really did those 2 mios dps, no tank could hold aggro against this without tons of vengeance and massive burst.

[Deleted]

Full heroic geared now and I can still pull off our heroic geared pally at the pull if I don't watch myself

But then again...I'm Enhance and burst around 2M on those pulls (according to my Skada meter)

No you can't. A large part of our damage comes from our Fire Elementals and they don't count towards aggro. If we really did those 2 mios dps, no tank could hold aggro against this without tons of vengeance and massive burst.

Well, Fire Elemental still only does around 30% of damage on pull because ascendance is crazy with all the trinket procs up. If your tank is losing aggro though, he's probably doing something wrong, even at those DPS levels (providing he is equally geared.)

[Raiju]

Oh really its 5%? TIL

Regardless though, 5% is still pretty insignificant. I've never used it for a threat dump since the threat dump was put in. Blizzard clearly agrees that the threat dump portion is pointless.

It was pretty insignificant, but the reason people used it (and resort to other methods to threat drop from other fucking classes) is because it was ALL we had and any possible threat reduction could help. Removing it would be the perfect time to actually give us a realistic threat drop mechanic in some form, or threat reduction. The issue being especially prevalent with the 110% increase for melee range enhancement deals with.

@Kyarai only a couple bosses hit hard enough to give the tank significant vengeance off the pull to keep off a cd nuking spec who let loose.

I also believe kralljin more often talks from ele POV, where threat is much LESS of an issue as outside of rare mechanics a ranged overagroing is a non issue. The tank can taunt and win over the threat meter while the boss is force-fixated. A melee not only contends with a lower % to take aggro, but also an instant threat if they do.

[Hekili]

I'd be willing to say that, if you've never pulled aggro on the pull as Enhancement in MoP, either you've been very good at aggro management (at the expense of DPS) or you've pressed Wind Shear.