Putin puts troops in western Russia on alert in drill

[Shalcker]

did they sieze those building mainly armed with AK's or with some kind of sticks or other self made junk?

In case of Luhansk they actually simply walked to SBU and got weapons from their weapon room... not occupied it already armed.

[dozor]

An interview with Simon Ostrovsky, our favourite Vice news hipster journalist, about his kidnapping and detention.
https://news.vice.com/articles/i-had...n-in-sloviansk

[Shalcker]

Tsaryov,

Beaten up on camera after participating in discussion program? And then charged as instigator instead of being "victim"?

Dobkin,

Doused with brilliant green as he attempted to participate in same program? And greeted with hostility in Luhansk?

Tihipko, no?

Who is seen as "pro-Russian" simply because he criticizes current government while he condemns "occupation of Crimea" and considers Putin "agressor"?

So... no, not really.

They might be more desirable then current government but pro-Russian they are not.

[ringpriest]

An interview with Simon Ostrovsky, our favourite Vice news hipster journalist, about his kidnapping and detention.
https://news.vice.com/articles/i-had...n-in-sloviansk

Thank you for the link. These kidnappings seem to be yet another raising of the stakes in Eastern Ukraine, as compared to either the Euromaidan or Crimean actions.(Actual rubber-hose cryptography! Predictable yet awful.)

[Jackmoves]

An interview with Simon Ostrovsky, our favourite Vice news hipster journalist, about his kidnapping and detention.
https://news.vice.com/articles/i-had...n-in-sloviansk

Tells you a bit about the thugs that Kreml call activists. Criminals is far more fitting.

[Deleted]

Thank you for the link. These kidnappings seem to be yet another raising of the stakes in Eastern Ukraine, as compared to either the Euromaidan or Crimean actions.(Actual rubber-hose cryptography! Predictable yet awful.)

Sorry ringpriest but don't forget that BEFORE the snipers 20 people died during the protests.
Roughly half of which police.
Lets not downplay what happened in Kiev.

[dozor]

Beaten up on camera after participating in discussion program? And then charged as instigator instead of being "victim"?

Doused with brilliant green as he attempted to participate in same program? And greeted with hostility in Luhansk?

Who is seen as "pro-Russian" simply because he criticizes current government while he condemns "occupation of Crimea" and considers Putin "agressor"?

So... no, not really.

They might be more desirable then current government but pro-Russian they are not.

So, that cancels their presidential claims?
Once Yanukovich was hit unconscious by an egg. Than by a wreath. But that did not stopped him from becoming a president.
Actually, for 23 years the problem was, and still is that Ukraine never had any decent (or at least sane) pro-Russian candidates. Somehow Russian vector attracts only weirdos, thugs and communists.

[Deleted]

So, that cancels their presidential claims?
Once Yanukovich was hit unconscious by an egg. Than by a wreath. But that did not stopped him from becoming a president.
Actually, the problem was, and still is that Ukraine never had any decent (or at least sane) pro-Russian candidates. Somehow Russian vector attracts only weirdos, thugs and communists.

corrupted, criminals and weirdos seems to be plenty on the whole Ukrainian political spectrum

- - - Updated - - -

Actually 28 deaths before the snipers. 10 of which police.

[ringpriest]

Sorry ringpriest but don't forget that BEFORE the snipers 20 people died during the protests.
Roughly half of which police.
Lets not downplay what happened in Kiev.

Without wishing to restart the sniper debate, it seems to me that shooting during some (very violent and confrontational) protests, isn't quite the same as making a pattern of grabbing people (with little to no allegiance to 'the other side') from the street, holding them, and using them as bargaining chips. Yes, the murders during the protests were horrible. But they (to the best of my knowledge) only occurred around the height of the protests in Kiev. There were no snipers before or after. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Euromaidan supporters or Crimean separatists detained people, but it doesn't appear that they did so in the same way as is happening in Eastern Ukraine. These kidnappings do nothing to aid their cause, and helps the Western narrative that Eastern Ukrainian militia (separatists? pro-Russians?) are different (and worse) from the Euromaidan (or even Crimean) events.

[dozor]

corrupted, criminals and weirdos seems to be plenty on the whole Ukrainian political spectrum

Yes, that is our bane.
But we are working on it currently.

[Deleted]

I

Without wishing to restart the sniper debate, it seems to me that shooting during some (very violent and confrontational) protests, isn't quite the same as making a pattern of grabbing people (with little to no allegiance to 'the other side') from the street, holding them, and using them as bargaining chips. Yes, the murders during the protests were horrible. But they (to the best of my knowledge) only occurred around the height of the protests in Kiev. There were no snipers before or after. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Euromaidan supporters or Crimean separatists detained people, but it doesn't appear that they did so in the same way as is happening in Eastern Ukraine. These kidnappings do nothing to aid their cause, and helps the Western narrative that Eastern Ukrainian militia (separatists? pro-Russians?) are different (and worse) from the Euromaidan (or even Crimean) events.

I still can't see the difference between violently seizing official buildings, kidnapping and murdering, that happened on both sides.
Apart of course that one side was protected by the west.

[Shalcker]

So, that cancels their presidential claims?

No, you claimed they are "pro-russian" while the only one who might be somewhat slightly pro-Russian there is Tsarev and he has no chances. There are no real pro-Russian candidate in current elections; so we do not gain anything by recognizing them as legitimate. That obviously points our rhetoric to "illegitimate elections by illegitimate government under tightly controlled news channels limiting candidate exposure and threats from extremist thugs" (which is also true).

Actually, for 23 years the problem was, and still is that Ukraine never had any decent (or at least sane) pro-Russian candidates. Somehow Russian vector attracts only weirdos, thugs and communists.

Is that somehow Russian problem?

[Deleted]

Yes, that is our bane.
But we are working on it currently.

Not sure there brother. And I feel for you, but timoshenko is still up there. Plus now you'll have the IMF knocking at the door and believe me, by next budget you will see sparks flying back again.

[GennGreymane]

If only Ukraine would so kindly move its boarder away from Russia's troops.

Let me try

Greymane: Would you kindly?

Ukraine: *Hangs up*




....

Worked in Bioshock. Turns out politics is more complicated than what the news seems to think. I swear half the stories I see on both sides are as stupid as the Israeli/Palestinian issue.... its not realistic to relocate millions of people.... why do we keep saying its an option.... and the first option at that.

[dozor]

No, you claimed they are "pro-russian" while the only one who might be somewhat slightly pro-Russian there is Tsarev and he has no chances. There are no real pro-Russian candidate in current elections; so we do not gain anything by recognizing them as legitimate. That obviously points our rhetoric to "illegitimate elections by illegitimate government under tightly controlled news channels limiting candidate exposure and threats from extremist thugs" (which is also true).

They are pro-Russian as a pro-Russian can be in Ukraine. It's not our problem that most of Ukrainians don't like Russian vector.

Is that somehow Russian problem?

Did I say it is?

[Jackmoves]

I
I still can't see the difference between violently seizing official buildings, kidnapping and murdering, that happened on both sides.
Apart of course that one side was protected by the west.

I cant remember foreign journalists and citizens being locked up in prison cells. Journalists from tons of countries could work freely in Kiev without being snatched up by masked men.

[Cynep]

You are living in your own little world. This is just the beginning. It will get A LOT worse once economical situation becomes worse and people will start losing jobs. People that dont have the means to living, no work wont go home.

Your words indicate you didn't experience the breakdown of USSR. That was bad. All ties with former republics were broken, and we had no ties with the West, about 1/3 went unemployed; all government structures were in Moscow, and Kiev had to create everything from scratch; everyone was stealing, er, privatizing everything they could; instead of currency we had coupons, with monthly inflation about 10-20%; a decade-long standoff between criminal clans of Donetsk and Dnipropetrovsk began... Yeah, rough times. Now, we only lose one little Russia with the whole world supporting us. Good riddance!

[dozor]

Not sure there brother. And I feel for you, but timoshenko is still up there. Plus now you'll have the IMF knocking at the door and believe me, by next budget you will see sparks flying back again.

Nobody here is having delusions of bright and shiny future. We have enormous amount of work to do. But all 23 years Ukrainians learnt how to endure and survive. I believe that we will endure that too.

[Shalcker]

I cant remember foreign journalists and citizens being locked up in prison cells. Journalists from tons of countries could work freely in Kiev without being snatched up by masked men.

Selective memory much?

Ukrainian (pro-government) journalist dies of gunshot wounds in Kiev attack

[Jackmoves]

Selective memory much?

Ukrainian (pro-government) journalist dies of gunshot wounds in Kiev attack

Selective reading much?

Foreign...