Putin puts troops in western Russia on alert in drill

[Gangresnake]

So... have anyone in the UN acknowledged that stuff in Odessa even happened? Anyone seen McCain or Biden there?

Seems like you're trying to make a point, would you like some help with that
Jokes asides, the country is in chaos, both US and RU are defending what's left of their interests as best as they can
Putin played with fire and now innocents are getting burned, quite litteraly for some

[Shalcker]

Seems like you're trying to make a point, would you like some help with that
Jokes asides, the country is in chaos, both US and RU are defending what's left of their interests as best as they can
Putin played with fire and now innocents are getting burned, quite litteraly for some

Didn't we warn about dangers like that several months ago? Seemed to fall on deaf ears though.

[Vivapin8]

Didn't we warn about dangers like that several months ago? Seemed to fall on deaf ears though.

Nah man people that are on russian side and die, it's totally russia's fault /sarcasm

[Haven]

Seems like you're trying to make a point, would you like some help with that
Jokes asides, the country is in chaos, both US and RU are defending what's left of their interests as best as they can
Putin played with fire and now innocents are getting burned, quite litteraly for some

Well, the US installed the government they need, now the population might as well burn in fire in Odessa and be run over by tanks in Eastern Ukraine, no one gives a shit, main mission accomplished.

[Gangresnake]

Didn't we warn about dangers like that several months ago? Seemed to fall on deaf ears though.

Warned about what ? Annexing unstable nations ?
I also remember you saying the west is losing the battle for the rest of Ukraine and do not have the teeth to win it. Some lovely thinking back then.
Now hundreds have probably died and you're wrong. Hope you're happy.

[Deleted]

Putin's agents got to New York Times staff.

Behind the Masks in Ukraine, Many Faces of Rebellion

TL;DR of the article: No Russian Forces or Specialists in Ukraine.

riiiiight. they allowed this journalist to see what they wanted him to see.
those who try to see a bit more - they take into captivatity(right now the separatists hold 30-50 men in captivity, in terrible conditions, not all of them are journalists though).
russian forces are there, not officially(yet?) though, was proven several times, their leader and coordinator in Slavyansk is a russian agent also.

On April 15, the Security Service of Ukraine opened a criminal proceeding against "Strelkov". He was described as the leader of the "saboteurs" in Sloviansk, and in March had allegedly coordinated Russian military takeovers of Ukrainian units in Crimea.[4][7] The next day, he allegedly sought to recruit Ukrainian soldiers detained at the entrance to Kramatorsk. There was some indication that he may be connected to sniper attacks on protesters in Kiev.[8][9][10]

During the weekend of April 26–27, the leader of the Donetsk People's Republic ceded control of all separatist fighters in the region to Strelkov.[3] On April 26, Strelkov gave a video interview to the Komsomolskaya Pravda where he said that his militia in Slaviansk was formed in Crimea and comprised of volunteer war veterans (mostly from the Russian Army[11]); it included many Russian and other foreign citizens but was mostly ("more than half, maybe two-thirds"[11]) Ukrainian.[12] He said nothing about his own background, denied receiving weapons or ammunition from Russia,[2][3] and announced that his militia would not release the OSCE observers that it had taken hostage.[13] The Ukrainian government claimed he was behind the kidnapping, torture, and murder of Ukrainian politician Vladimir Rybak and a 19-year-old college student[13] Yuriy Popravka.[5]

On 28 April, the EU sanctioned "Igor Strelkov" as a GRU staff member believed to be a coordinator of armed actions and a security assistant to Crimea's Sergey Aksyonov.[6]

Strelkov was subsequently identified by Ukrainian intellignce as Col. Igor Girkin, registered as a resident of Moscow.[14] Journalists visiting the apartment where his mother allegedly lived were told by neighbors that a "fancy black car" had that morning picked up the woman living there.[2]

On 29 April, he appointed a new police chief for Kramatorsk.[14]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Strelkov_%28GRU%29
so ye, keep keep lying.

[Deleted]

Seems like you're trying to make a point, would you like some help with that
Jokes asides, the country is in chaos, both US and RU are defending what's left of their interests as best as they can
Putin played with fire and now innocents are getting burned, quite litteraly for some

That might come as a surprise to you, but it was clear like the sun that this was the result.
Maiden didn't have full on support from the population. Although media up here in the west were trying at all cost to depict it as a "government vs population" struggle, it really wasn't.
What happened in Ukraine between 2013 and the first months of 2014 is a political alliance in opposition United under the same banner, linking together pro-Russian Democrats and extreme right wing nationalist. It was clear it wasn't going to bring anything good, as first of all it was a flimsy alliance, and second of all it totally alienated a HUGE chunk of the population.

Now the country is in a mess. No shit.

[Shalcker]

Warned about what ? Annexing unstable nations?

About dangerous nazi extremists being supported by current Ukrainian government.

I also remember you saying the west is losing the battle for the rest of Ukraine and do not have the teeth to win it. Some lovely thinking back then.

Well, you are. Results of this civil war is not going to be good for West, and US agents coordinating Ukrainians are not going to win them war.

Now hundreds have probably died and you're wrong. Hope you're happy.

Wrong exactly where?

It's more like "- Hey, you'll hurt yourself and others! Stop! - Go away evil Russians, we are not going to listen to your propaganda!"

[ringpriest]

Well, you are. Results of this civil war is not going to be good for West, and US agents coordinating Ukrainians are not going to win them war.

While I don't doubt that the US is supporting the current Kiev government, I think the report of CIA and FBI agents should received skeptically until there's a better source than Bild's Sunday edition. (While it has wide readership, Bild is roughly analogous to The Sun in the UK, or the New York Post in the US - its standard of journalism is less than stellar.)

[Creotor]

riiiiight. they allowed this journalist to see what they wanted him to see.
those who try to see a bit more - they take into captivatity(right now the separatists hold 30-50 men in captivity, in terrible conditions, not all of them are journalists though).
russian forces are there, not officially(yet?) though, was proven several times, their leader and coordinator in Slavyansk is a russian agent also.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Strelkov_%28GRU%29
so ye, keep keep lying.

Oh my, a Wikipedia page that "is being considered for deletion in accordance with Wikipedia's deletion policy" vs. a New York Times investigative article (not that they don't fuck up, but still). Just which one should I pick?

As far as Girkin goes, the only authentic info on him your SBU (which hasn't been caught spewing bullshit numerous times, no sir!) has is that he served in Russian Army some time ago. The part where he is a colonel, and not just a colonel, but a GRU one was taken out of thin air. Most likely, he's someone that retired from Armed Forces a while ago and went to Ukraine during these events on his own. I'm not posting this for you, by the way, arguing with you is useless; it's simply for other people to see.

As far as telling me to stop lying... I never even said anything about my own opinion in that post, only linked NYT. So, uh.... what?

P.S. Link more gifs and throw in some memes, that will surely make your posts more convincing and appealing.

[Gangresnake]

About dangerous nazi extremists being supported by current Ukrainian government.

Well, you are. Results of this civil war is not going to be good for West, and US agents coordinating Ukrainians are not going to win them war.

Wrong exactly where?

It's more like "- Hey, you'll hurt yourself and others! Stop! - Go away evil Russians, we are not going to listen to your propaganda!"

Yeah, everyone who doesnt agree with you is a nazi, we got that, that's cool.
I dont think you understand, there is no war, only a bunch of russians extremists getting dealt over with. It's not going to be good for anyone for that matter.
Kiev is maintaining their territorial integrity, and they are backed up by US, so Putin cant flex his muscles about another bullshit excuse for invading this time. There is no "battle" for Ukraine and Russia isnt getting their hands on it anytime soon, either militarily or democraticly.

Also, Putin annexing Crimea and backing up russians nationalists is hardly Ukraine hiting themselves.

While I don't doubt that the US is supporting the current Kiev government, I think the report of CIA and FBI agents should received skeptically until there's a better source than Bild's Sunday edition. (While it has wide readership, Bild is roughly analogous to The Sun in the UK, or the New York Post in the US - its standard of journalism is less than stellar.)

Considering the amount of pressure Putin put on Ukraine those recent month it wouldnt be surprising at all, or even "unfair". Asking for US help in those situations is a very rational move.

[Jackmoves]

Didn't know Germany employed transformers.

Yes the behaviour of the police in ukraine has been appalling.

[COLOR="#417394"]
Both sides and the police will have to be blamed.
Anything less, like for example ukraine's interim government position on it, only throws gas to the fire.

The interim government blamed the police first and foremost. Yatsenyuk was in Odessa today. Russia has blamed the Ukranian Government of course, which makes no sense at all.

The Ukranian government cant control the police but they are supposed to control football hooligans and militants according to Kreml. The logic of that makes me wonder what planet Kreml exists on. Esp when theyve done nothing themselves to calm down pro-russians in the east.

Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk: "These security forces [in Odessa] are inefficient and violated the law"Continue reading the main story

Ukraine crisis

Ukraine's interim PM has accused the security services of failing to stop violence in the southern city of Odessa that left more than 40 people dead. Arseniy Yatsenyuk, on his way to Odessa, told the BBC there would be a "full, comprehensive and independent investigation" into Friday's events.

Mr Yatsenyuk said the security service and law enforcement office had done "nothing to stop this crackdown", saying they were "inefficient and they violated the law". The police chief of the Odessa region had been removed, he said, and the prosecutor's office had started an investigation into "every single police officer".

[Creotor]

The interim government blamed the police first and foremost. Yatsenyuk was in Odessa today. Russia has blamed the Ukranian Government of course, which makes no sense at all.

The interim government got to power not without help of radicals and Praviy Sektor which participated in the Odessa events as well.
Afterwards, they were very lenient with them and even recruited them into National Guard. Still doesn't make sense?

[Ticj]

riiiiight. they allowed this journalist to see what they wanted him to see.
those who try to see a bit more - they take into captivatity(right now the separatists hold 30-50 men in captivity, in terrible conditions, not all of them are journalists though).
russian forces are there, not officially(yet?) though, was proven several times, their leader and coordinator in Slavyansk is a russian agent also.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Strelkov_%28GRU%29
so ye, keep keep lying.

I agree with what you said, but one of the hostages that was freed (the one with vice) said that he was treated fairly well.

[Shalcker]

Yeah, everyone who doesnt agree with you is a nazi, we got that, that's cool.

No, the people like the ones who burned people in Odessa are Nazi. They are not even hiding it...

I dont think you understand, there is no war, only a bunch of russians extremists getting dealt over with. It's not going to be good for anyone for that matter.

Except they are not "getting dealt over with" at all, they are actually buying anti-tank weapons from Ukrainian army there; and they weren't in Odessa too, which is the site with most casualties so far. Others will see Odessa as template of what happens if you don't take up arms...

Kiev is maintaining their territorial integrity, and they are backed up by US, so Putin cant flex his muscles about another bullshit excuse for invading this time. There is no "battle" for Ukraine and Russia isnt getting their hands on it anytime soon, either militarily or democraticly.

We're not going to intervene and that's exactly what will tear Ukraine apart (we could stabilize it, but you don't seem to want that); and once that is done we'll deal with aftermath, which, at least in East and South Ukraine is not going to be pro-Western.

Also, Putin annexing Crimea and backing up russians nationalists is hardly Ukraine hiting themselves.

Do you think what happened in Odessa is work of Russian Nationalists?

Considering the amount of pressure Putin put on Ukraine those recent month it wouldnt be surprising at all, or even "unfair". Asking for US help in those situations is a very rational move.

Asking is one thing; actually getting it is completely another.

[Jackmoves]

The interim government got to power not without help of radicals and Praviy Sektor which participated in the Odessa events as well.
Afterwards, they were very lenient with them and even recruited them into National Guard. Still doesn't make sense?

There wasnt much black and red in any of the videos Ive seen from Odessa. So sources please, preferbly high quality pictures.

Regardless of that how are they supposed to control them? They cant make sure the police in Odessa does its job, the very agency/state authority that should have stoped it from happening but they should be able to control raging hooligans and militants? How? Send them a polite letter?

[Shalcker]

There seems to be information widely circulating in Ukrainian internet that there are more then 100 total dead in Odessa - many dead not from fire or smoke but from being shot, strangled, and beaten to death while extremists sweeped through the building.

- - - Updated - - -

There wasnt much black and red in any of the videos Ive seen from Odessa. So sources please, preferbly high quality pictures.

Regardless of that how are they supposed to control them? They cant make sure the police in Odessa does its job, the very agency/state authority that should have stoped it from happening but they should be able to control raging hooligans and militants? How? Send them a polite letter?

Well, if they cannot do anything they might soon see lynch mobs instead...

[Gangresnake]

No, the people like the ones who burned people in Odessa are Nazi. They are not even hiding it...

Except they are not "getting dealt over with" at all, they are actually buying anti-tank weapons from Ukrainian army there; and they weren't in Odessa too, which is the site with most casualties so far. Others will see Odessa as template of what happens if you don't take up arms...

We're not going to intervene and that's exactly what will tear Ukraine apart (we could stabilize it, but you don't seem to want that); and once that is done we'll deal with aftermath, which, at least in East and South Ukraine is not going to be pro-Western.

Do you think what happened in Odessa is work of Russian Nationalists?


Asking is one thing; actually getting it is completely another.

Those who burned people in Odessa are extremists, extremists arent all nazis. It's a fight between ukrainians extremists and russian extremists, bad luck for the former, this is on Ukranian soil.
Those are getting dealt with pretty quickly, Ukranians security force are advancing uncontested. This has been ugly and this might get even uglier, but Ukraine got the right to defend its territorial integrity. Some will see Odessa as template of "what happens if you don't take up arms", and some will see it as a template of what happen if you do.
What tear Ukraine apart right now is Putin agitating extremists and letting them know that he got their back (He doesnt). Russia cant "stabilize it", Russia and Crimea is the very reason these fight happen and after Crimea Russia has zero diplomatic or even popular influence amongst Ukrainians.
They'd like to "intervene" (invade) but Nato got Kiev back now, so they cant.
Kiev is just gonna roll over the russians extremists in a not-so-civil manner to stabilize the country and establish their authority. and that will be the end of it.

Do you think what happened in Odessa ISNT the work of russian nationalists ? Better : What do you think happened in Odessa ?

Oh and I'm pretty sure they have US help, it's uncertain (yet credible) that FBI and CIA are counseling Kiev right now, but they got NATO support anyway, which mean Putin cant pressure them anymore, which mean they can intervene.

[Jackmoves]

Do you think what happened in Odessa is work of Russian Nationalists?

Russian nationalists are certainly partly to blame. If you gear up and march straight into an opposing groups rally looking like they did, expect problems. It takes two to tango. Had they not saught confrontation then things probably wouldnt have gotten out of hand the way it did.

Im not victim blaming btw, simply saying there was two seperate groups of armed militants that didnt mind to battle it out. Both sides commited crimes.

[Creotor]

There wasnt much black and red in any of the videos Ive seen from Odessa. So sources please, preferbly high quality pictures.

Regardless of that how are they supposed to control them? They cant make sure the police in Odessa does its job, the very agency/authority that should have stoped it from happening but they should be able to control raging hooligans and militants? How?

"Regardless"? There wouldn't have been a "regardless" if they didn't treat radicals like normal people to begin with and those didn't feel like they could do w/e the fuck they want and get away with it.

As for proof... You're really demanding proof for the fact that radicals from by far the largest radical group in Ukraine participated in the most horrific act that took place there? Let's assume that they even weren't there. Who were those people that torched the building then? Other radicals. Whose actions, again, Ukrainian interim govt hasn't been giving a shit about? Radicals'. Either ignoring them or sometimes outright approving them, with very little scorn reserved for when those radicals, yet again, wanted to storm the Parliament building in Kyiv.
Still want proof? Suit yourself. I thought you'd gone through that incredibly lengthy blog (which omits a shitload and twists things, btw) in Russian with tons of pictures, but here, from that very source:

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/napak...3_original.jpg (shield)

Another source. You will forgive me for low quality, I wasn't sending cameramen there for my own reporting:
http://coub.com/view/1kbbi
http://coub.com/view/1kbe8

The quality is low, but you can make out the red & black colors on his armband with white in the middle.
By the way, the guy is screaming "I carried them out of the building with my own hands" (he was one of the people that entered the building after the fire was out) & "I personally got 2 Russian passports from them!" which he never shows. Wonder why. Must have sent them to Kyiv by super express mail for immediate examination.

I'm sure there's more, but that's what was fresh in my memory.