Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Sarkol]

I play WoW for fun, not as a chore. Making the game a chore will result in subscription loss.

Yes there might be some sub losses due to it. The same as every change. But a huge chunk of people quitting due to this? Not a chance. I think they would rather be on the ground playing the game, as opposed to skipping it completely due to this one thing. Obviously if you feel it's so bad for you can't force yourself to play, so be it, but there's won't be as many joining you as you think.

[Anjerith]

I find this whole debate terribly amusing when it takes about an hour to run from the end of the world to the opposite end, including boat/blimp waiting. There seems to be an idea that the gameworld is somehow massive when (while it is indeed pretty huge), increase in player speed, increase in mount speed and other factors that people do not consider make it a very convenient world to travel in with or without flying.

I did see one person say that it would make ganking easier if there is no flying. I am not sure where this person got the term ganking from, or if they have actually experienced it, but the ability to instantly drop out of the sky, blow all your CDs and nuke the shit out of someone, then fly away merrily laughing at how awesome you are is ganking. Hiding in the environment and stalking someone who just isnt paying attention is just world PVP.

[Barkloud]

Vashj was beat before that patch... KT was beat a couple resets after that patch, sure. But, there wasn't a "fix" to anything in his fight. You're misremembering these things.

"Five-mans less so" Whaaaattttt?

Scholomance: Directly reused content from previous game. WITH REDUCED SIZE!
Scarlet Monastery: Directly reused content from previous game.
Temple of the Jade Serpent: Open world asset. Reused art.
Stormstout Brewery: Open world asset. You get a quest earlier to go inside. Reused art.
Shado-pan Monastery: Open world asset. Reused art.
Siege of Niuzao Temple: Open world asset. Reused art.
Gate of the Setting Sun: Open world asset. Reused art.

That leaves Mogu'shan Palace. Which everything in there is reused art found everywhere in the open world. This is the only one where you can get away with saying that is "unique". But, none of the art in it is unique.

Mogu'shan Vaults reuses all the art from palace. There isn't anything in there that is unique besides the dragon. Terrace of Endless Spring is all reused art. Almost everything in raids has been reused...

I think you're making the mistake of thinking that they have a unique layout that means that the art is unique. Well, the textures(art) in them have all been used before the raids and instances in the open world. You just don't notice it because they come in a different form. But, if you look close enough you will see the same art littered throughout the expansion being reused for everything..

Dungeons in MOP were just shameful. I do not believe for a second that blizzard believed people do not like dungeons. Hopefully WoD will have 20 dungeons or more just like past expansions.

Blizzard seems to have gotten comfortable with cutting corners and taking the path of least resistance.

With all the time and money they will save not having to program flying they should have no reason to not develop the best dungeons ever.

[Sweetpeaz]

Dungeons in MOP were just shameful. I do not believe for a second that blizzard believed people do not like dungeons. Hopefully WoD will have 20 dungeons or more just like past expansions.

Blizzard seems to have gotten comfortable with cutting corners and taking the path of least resistance.

With all the time and money they will save not having to program flying they should have no reason to not develop the best dungeons ever.

It's never been about enjoyment. It's about cost.

GC had stated before it is significant, in terms of the amount of resources that it takes to build a dungeon would be better spent on raid content. This is made even more of an issue because dungeons become outdated at various times during the expansion.

This is why you have Timeless Isle. Instead of catch up dungeons they create an island with drops and static content. It saves them money (lots of it) and satisfies the need for a catch up.

[Doomchicken]

It's funny that they don't care about non-current content, but force you to pay for it anyways.

Hell, they make you pay for the old content so that you can then turn around and pay for the current content. Then you can turn around and pay even more to skip the old content that they just forced you to buy so you can skip right to the current content. I'm surprised they don't charge you whenever you log off from the game, at this point.

But, Flying is bad according to the developers because you can skip the trivial boring and frustrating content that the developers made trivial, boring and frustrating.

Blizzard Logic

If this was just Blizzard logic then why do so few MMO's have flying in them? If Blizzard were the only ones that thought flying doesn't add a positive status towards the health of the game then why do next to none have them? (As in few. not legit zero)

[Sweetpeaz]

If this was just Blizzard logic then why do so few MMO's have flying in them? If Blizzard were the only ones that thought flying doesn't add a positive status towards the health of the game then why do next to none have them? (As in few. not legit zero)

Blizzard is the leader in this genre, if other companies aren't doing it it's on them. Blizzard made that and it should be exploited and not frowned upon. What we do know for sure is that this game hasn't ever had 6 million subs, let alone 12.5 million without flight, because it's been here since the first expansion.

[Doomchicken]

Blizzard is the leader in this genre, if other companies aren't doing it it's on them. Blizzard made that and it should be exploited and not frowned upon. What we do know for sure is that this game hasn't ever had 6 million subs, let alone 12.5 million without flight, because it's been here since the first expansion.

there was 8 million subs before BC came out. 11 by end of BC. Flying didn't bring in millions of millions and saying they did for Wrath at its peak of 12.5 when the last bad guy was the lich king, aka the villain everyone from the days of warcraft 3 knew and came to kill would get you laughed out of any argument.

Edited for correction and source.

http://www.powerwordgold.net/2013/07...2005-2013.html

- - - Updated - - -

You also can't make the argument that flying bought in 3 million players for BC either btw because again, BC central focus was going to outland and dealing with Kaelthas, Vashj, Illidan and Kil'Jaeden. Aka 4 of the main players in the Frozen throne expansion plus one of the major Areas for that expansion as well. People give more of a fuck about characters and locations than flying mounts.

[Sweetpeaz]

there was 8 million subs before BC came out. 11 by end of BC. Flying didn't bring in millions of millions and saying they did for Wrath at its peak of 12.5 when the last bad guy was the lich king, aka the villain everyone from the days of warcraft 3 knew and came to kill would get you laughed out of any argument.

Edited for correction and source.

http://www.powerwordgold.net/2013/07...2005-2013.html

- - - Updated - - -

You also can't make the argument that flying bought in 3 million players for BC either btw because again, BC central focus was going to outland and dealing with Kaelthas, Vashj, Illidan and Kil'Jaeden. Aka 4 of the main players in the Frozen throne expansion plus one of the major Areas for that expansion as well. People give more of a fuck about characters and locations than flying mounts.

I stand corrected, I thought it topped at 6.

As to why people came or didn't come, it doesn't matter. Flight was part of that formula, and we can't possibly second guess that without significantly more data. It was needed for the world. I will wholeheartedly agree that the storyline of TBC was fantastic and cohesive. But I also felt the same with WotLK, it just felt right.

It's been disjointed since WotLK ended. Using your same logic, if I can't say flying added, you can't say that flying has pushed people away either. It's the story, right? So for them to go this 'no flight' stuff is kind of dumb......if the story is that good, people will play it.

[Florena]

Flying wasn't the only thing added in bc. Unless there's some data to suggest otherwise it seems silly to me to assume thay flying and flying alone brought in the bulk of new players in BC and Wrath.

[quras]

Flying wasn't the only thing added in bc. Unless there's some data to suggest otherwise it seems silly to me to assume thay flying and flying alone brought in the bulk of new players in BC and Wrath.

Flying was a massive seller at that time for TBC. Check out the blizzcon for that expansion. Flying is the most requested feature wow has ever had next to dual spec at the end of vanilla.

Flying hasn't been in every expansion ever created for wow. It's not some fly by night feature. It is now an integral part of the game.

You can bet flying along with wow still being in it's prime as well as the story of illidan was a combination of things that brought wow ti it's highest subs ever pushing into WoTLK with an ever better story and content as well as better flying more mains and alts.

It wasn't until story, content and a general lack of content did subs decline by millions (cataclysm - MoP). It wasn't flying that caused those people to leave but it sure helped them to sign up.

What blizzard is doing now is some regressing design so they can hinder content consumption at max level to every gamer that sets foot in the theme park. Make every line to take longer. It's not worthy of support just so blizzard can cram more TI-style content into the game.

[Barkloud]

It's never been about enjoyment. It's about cost.

GC had stated before it is significant, in terms of the amount of resources that it takes to build a dungeon would be better spent on raid content. This is made even more of an issue because dungeons become outdated at various times during the expansion.

This is why you have Timeless Isle. Instead of catch up dungeons they create an island with drops and static content. It saves them money (lots of it) and satisfies the need for a catch up.

Timeless Isle is also boring, booooooooooooooooring. Run run run real fast and wait for the boss to spawn. oh look he spawned I have to spam my only instant cast as fast as possible because boss died in .08 of a second. Run run run real fast and wait for the next boss to spawn.

Tons of fun that place, tons of fun.....

[Nayaga]

Timeless Isle is also boring, booooooooooooooooring. Run run run real fast and wait for the boss to spawn. oh look he spawned I have to spam my only instant cast as fast as possible because boss died in .08 of a second. Run run run real fast and wait for the next boss to spawn.

Tons of fun that place, tons of fun.....

TI rained epics otherwise it would have been a ghost town.

[quras]

TI rained epics otherwise it would have been a ghost town.

Sadly that. ^

TI was some pretty garbage content. It was nothing more than a loot pinata that brought players, not the oh-so less than stellar content.

Similar to IoQD. It was not the content on that island that brought players to it. It was not the no flight mechanics. It was the massive BIS loot you could easily get. The content itself was garbage but the loot pinata was amazing. Gear drops do not make great game play but it clearly influences numbers in a give area. I'm sure blizzard could rattle off, IoQD brought in millions of players. Well guess what, they were not there for the mediocre content. Only the reward. The content in general was terrible.

Now you're going to see that same less than stellar content at max level in all of wod. You will have the leveling areas and then TI style areas and thats it but be sure to visit the the cash shop. We have flying mounts to sell you so you can use them in places no one else will be.

[Sarkol]

TI rained epics otherwise it would have been a ghost town.

This argument makes no sense. Of course there will be content to draw you to any area... In wod the zones will be full of rewards, dailys, etc. So you'll go there. Conversely. Say you could fly on Timeless isle in that ghost town of yours. Would that make people go there? Would they go and fly in circles just because? No. If the content is in any area, flying or otherwise, people will gravitate towards it, obviously.

[Sweetpeaz]

Flying wasn't the only thing added in bc. Unless there's some data to suggest otherwise it seems silly to me to assume thay flying and flying alone brought in the bulk of new players in BC and Wrath.

Certainly it wasn't the only issue. It was however the basis for the first store mount, and the reward for all Meta achievements. Flight is a big big deal.

However I would attribute the growth of those two expansions largely to having a great story to be told and content that was exclusive for flight. Skettis, Netherwing, Ice Crown and Storm Peaks. Excellent areas of the game, all hinged on flight.

[Sarkol]

Sadly that. ^

TI was some pretty garbage content. It was nothing more than a loot pinata that brought players, not the oh-so less than stellar content.

Similar to IoQD. It was not the content on that island that brought players to it. It was not the no flight mechanics. It was the massive BIS loot you could easily get. The content itself was garbage but the loot pinata was amazing. Gear drops do not make great game play but it clearly influences numbers in a give area. I'm sure blizzard could rattle off, IoQD brought in millions of players. Well guess what, they were not there for the mediocre content. Only the reward. The content in general was terrible.

Now you're going to see that same less than stellar content at max level in all of wod. You will have the leveling areas and then TI style areas and thats it but be sure to visit the the cash shop. We have flying mounts to sell you so you can use them in places no one else will be.

Because the daily quest areas and content on Mainland Pandaria is AMAZING RIGHT? People didn't do shitty dailys due to Epics only? Yeah they did. That's all anyone does, for any WoW content. Don't just cherry pick no fly zones and act like content elswhere is somehow amazing.

[Nayaga]

This argument makes no sense. Of course there will be content to draw you to any area... In wod the zones will be full of rewards, dailys, etc. So you'll go there. Conversely. Say you could fly on Timeless isle in that ghost town of yours. Would that make people go there? Would they go and fly in circles just because? No. If the content is in any area, flying or otherwise, people will gravitate towards it, obviously.

TI content/design was not interesting to me and to many others. Only reason I went there was because it was a loot pinata. I didn't say anything about TI and no flying. I said it would have been a ghost town without the epics raining down on everyone.

Jumping puzzles are lame (for me).

Wack-a-mole rares popping up and dieing instantly is lame (for me).

TI was lame (for me).

[Sarkol]

TI content/design was not interesting to me and to many others. Only reason I went there was because it was a loot pinata.

And the only reason you go anywhere in this game is due to some sort of reward, so i'm still unsure of where Timeless isle differs in that respect.

[Nayaga]

And the only reason you go anywhere in this game is due to some sort of reward, so i'm still unsure of where Timeless isle differs in that respect.

I ninja added a little to my post, please reread it for additional information

[Sarkol]

TI content/design was not interesting to me and to many others. Only reason I went there was because it was a loot pinata. I didn't say anything about TI and no flying. I said it would have been a ghost town without the epics raining down on everyone.

Jumping puzzles are lame (for me).

Wack-a-mole rares popping up and dieing instantly is lame (for me).



TI was lame (for me).

And while we're at it, let's just ask you. Would you suddenly enjoy Timeless isle if you could fly?

Read your response, but my question here still stands.