Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Shaede]

Go? Go outside, no one relies on having an MMO to exist in real life. Or go to an MMO which doesn't purposefully make itself go backwards in an expansion in an effort to make content patches feel longer.

This isn't about which MMO has flying, this isn't even about flying, it's about reversing the status quo to a different age. We're not talking nerfing some spells or placing a constraint on leveling for the same hidden reason to make content take longer to complete, it's about taking out a system which has existed for over half the life of a game and saying "you can't use this anymore in future content of your level".

There hasn't even been an antecedent before of such an obscene proportion so I can't even compare it, but the closest thing I can think of which would relate would be to remove the Auction House in favor of trade channel and player trades, it would bolster the community, increase travel to other places in the world and make everything less fast paced.

Sounds great right? I can't understand why anyone would oppose it should Blizzard suggest it.

Go outside? I mean... sounds pretty naive to think everyones going to quit mmo's altogether at the same time and go outside with you. Do you really believe that? More power to you, but that's certainly a stretch if I've ever seen one.

So any game that doesn't have flying is living in the past? I'm confused...now it's not about flying at all? This situation is really not unprecedented. They have always had no flying zones, mostly pvp...some cities.... all through leveling usually not allowed to fly.
I just find it amusing that people find flying such an extreme issue that they would rather quit then play anything at all, well except you because now it's not even about flying apparently.

So if no other mmo even has flying besides a very select few, doesn't that automatically cancel out all the ppl who are crying about not having flying in WoD? Unless this is really like you said and not even about flying, which in that case it doesn't matter if they implement it or not. Sounds to me people will have the vendetta against them either way.

Edit: I'm just genuinely curious what the other options are, what people who are deciding to quit are going to pick up. Sometimes I sound like a jerk I know and I apologize in advance for it. I don't mean anything to come off as personal even though these things tend to sound personal. At the end of the day we are all just a number on a stat sheet. We are debating a video game and debates get lively.

[MoanaLisa]

I'm going to the unthinkable and apologize. I got wrapped up in the drama, and a side. I don't normally do that. I hold my opinion that I think it's good for the game having no flying, but I do understand why people want to keep them.

It happens on things we feel strongly about. It speaks well for you that you can post that so </fistbump>. I'm sort of on the fence about this as you probably well know in that I'm leaning towards the idea that it's probably good for the game too but that Blizzard is going to have a very difficult time doing this without causing a lot of damage of a different kind. Whether or not that trade-off is worthwhile remains to be seen. They are now in the place where if they remove it entirely a lot of people who don't follow forums will be very angry. And if they change their mind and put it in at 6.1 the same for another group. I'm confident that didn't need to necessarily happen but it is what it is. Just due to the way they've casually floated this with no preparation at all and no will to answer questions other than to say "We'll see how it goes" they've put themselves in a corner unnecessarily. So it goes.

[Mosotti]

People dont cancel over flying.

Just did that yesterday. It was ONLY because of the flying. And believe me, I used ground mounts much more than most of the anti-fly maniacs, I've leveled over 20 alts over the years, can you imagine how much ground mounting was there. But I just don't accept that at level cap

Also I don't use flying mounts to "skip content". I've done EVERYTHING that is to be done "in the world". All the quests, all the reputations, EVERYTHING. I use flying mounts for the 3x speed increase and for being able to go from point A to point B before my daily play time is up. I don't even give a fuck about gathering, I don't fly around for that purpose

And I just don't agree that ARTIFICIALLY extending the non existing content is a great idea...

[Stonecloak]

It happens on things we feel strongly about. It speaks well for you that you can post that so </fistbump>. I'm sort of on the fence about this as you probably well know in that I'm leaning towards the idea that it's probably good for the game too but that Blizzard is going to have a very difficult time doing this without causing a lot of damage of a different kind. Whether or not that trade-off is worthwhile remains to be seen. They are now in the place where if they remove it entirely a lot of people who don't follow forums will be very angry. And if they change their mind and put it in at 6.1 the same for another group. I'm confident that didn't need to necessarily happen but it is what it is. Just due to the way they've casually floated this with no preparation at all and no will to answer questions other than to say "We'll see how it goes" they've put themselves in a corner unnecessarily. So it goes.

Yea I see your point. As I'm reading everyone's opinions. I kind of understand why some people would dislike this move very much. We've been flying since BC. Yes we've been on the ground to level, but we always knew at cap we could fly. Except for Cata when we could fly initially. It's a bit of a gamble by Blizz, but I think their banking on fan loyalty, and the fact that their probably always going to be the biggest mmo. I'm not taking sides on this anymore. Both sides I can sympathize with. Ultimately it will come down to what Blizzard decides to do.

[john duo]

Go? Go outside, no one relies on having an MMO to exist in real life. Or go to an MMO which doesn't purposefully make itself go backwards in an expansion in an effort to make content patches feel longer.

This isn't about which MMO has flying, this isn't even about flying, it's about reversing the status quo to a different age. We're not talking nerfing some spells or placing a constraint on leveling for the same hidden reason to make content take longer to complete, it's about taking out a system which has existed for over half the life of a game and saying "you can't use this anymore in future content of your level".

There hasn't even been an antecedent before of such an obscene proportion so I can't even compare it, but the closest thing I can think of which would relate would be to remove the Auction House in favor of trade channel and player trades, it would bolster the community, increase travel to other places in the world and make everything less fast paced.

Sounds great right? I can't understand why anyone would oppose it should Blizzard suggest it.

this.
up untill now i see more and more things taken off the table then on it ,
they are shrinking the game , less stats , less buttons , smaller numbers , no new race and no flying maybe untill the end of the xpac..
the game is changing its phase...they said it themselfs, 1 xpac per year, what did you think ?
that they aiming for a MOP/cata/wotlk/tbc wieght of xpac per year ? even when wow was blizz's fav son they couldnt pull this off
so now they can? its obvious ..
they are changing the game to be simpler smaller thinner version of itself , just a new content and maybe 1 new/recycled feature each year with raids and 5mans..
what do you think no-flying in WOD is ment to be ? its a recycled feature , nothing like a good Deprivation of flying to make the players value it again
when it comes back.
why do you think they repeated the word "savage" so much at blizzcon?
its the new TI style of world, you could not move for more than 2 seconds without being ambushed by animals or monsters out in the world .
add no flying to it and you got a really difficult gameplay out there - so much time sinks that will make you remember vanillna ~5 minutes corps runs.
and there is allways that thing ppl noticed that grounding you makes an illusion that the content seems bigger ...
wow is shrinking , blizz knows that , they made a decision to stop trying to grow it's subs and they aim to convert it from a sub based money maker into an ingame shop money maker.
just connect the DOTS ppl

[MoanaLisa]

Yea I see your point. As I'm reading everyone's opinions. I kind of understand why some people would dislike this move very much. We've been flying since BC. Yes we've been on the ground to level, but we always knew at cap we could fly. Except for Cata when we could fly initially. It's a bit of a gamble by Blizz, but I think their banking on fan loyalty, and the fact that their probably always going to be the biggest mmo. I'm not taking sides on this anymore. Both sides I can sympathize with. Ultimately it will come down to what Blizzard decides to do.

I really want to stop posting about this personally because I think I may have posted too much so I'll leave with this thought for the thoughtful. There's a quote in this thread and elsewhere that people won't quit over flying. I mostly agree with that but for many this isn't about flying. This is and will be for many about being jerked around. I'll close by committing the sin of quoting myself from another post with a fictitious example:

"Hey, let's sell some transmog helms at fifteen bucks a pop. Next expansion we'll just remove helms from the game altogether since a lot of people don't show them. Those people that buy helms? I guess they're out of luck. By the way let's have someone in the art department make up a really awesome helm for the next expansion and use it as a perk for the Collector's Edition while we're at it." This is essentially what they're doing.

That's why a lot of people will quit. It's not necessarily the flying.

[Dethh]

I really want to stop posting about this personally because I think I may have posted too much so I'll leave with this thought for the thoughtful. There's a quote in this thread and elsewhere that people won't quit over flying. I mostly agree with that but for many this isn't about flying. This is and will be for many about being jerked around. I'll close by committing the sin of quoting myself from another post with a fictitious example:


That's why a lot of people will quit. It's not necessarily the flying.

You're not making any sense with your bad analogy. People who bought mounts can still fly on them everywhere they could when they bought them. NOTHING is being taken away in that aspect. Going forward you may have greater restrictions on when and where you can fly, however you will still be able to fly everywhere you were always able to fly.

[Deleted]

I support no-flying.
But if people actually man up and quit the game over something they believe is wrong/is ripping them off, in this case removing flying in Draenor, then hell, you've got my blessing. If it teaches you the importance of voting with your wallet then it was all for a good cause. If however, all you're going to do is yap about it and in the end just continue on playing (like you always do) then you deserve to be "ripped off".

[Dethh]

I support no-flying.
But if people actually man up and quit the game over something they believe is wrong/is ripping them off, in this case removing flying in Draenor, then hell, you've got my blessing. If it teaches you the importance of voting with your wallet then it was all for a good cause. If however, all you're going to do is yap about it and in the end just continue on playing (like you always do) then you deserve to be "ripped off".

I bet most of the people who claim they are quitting already pre-ordered.

[Mosotti]

That's why people become penniless and kill themselves, they keep betting on the wrong horse...

[Hntr]

i would hate not being able to fly the whole expansion.
at release okay, i can bare with it. But latest 6.1 should be the flying patch.

[urasim]

That's why people become penniless and kill themselves, they keep betting on the wrong horse...

He seems to think he knows everyone's intentions better than themselves. Pretty laughable to be honest.

I haven't ordered the expansion and my sub expired with a nice little message to Blizzard with the reason I am leaving.

The funny thing is he is trying so hard to defend this, but doesn't realize that it won't fix any problems. We already have zones with no flight and it didn't fix anything. The expansion is just one big timeless isle.

[Zecora]

Near the end of the interview they hint at no flying throughout the entire xpac.

Ooh, awesome!

[urasim]

Well, at least on Isle of Thunder players are actually IN the zone rather than flying over it. Dodging the patrols, trying to find a path with least hostile mobs, at some point even fighting against them.

I'm not sure what you meant with the "just one big timeless isle". True, they are taking the events from TI to Draenor and improving them, but I doubt that we would have Burning Berserkers in every corner of zone. Also the zone design won't be just a circle with one path from point A to B.

I ran through the mobs in both zones only needing to dismount to take care of the charging mobs in timeless isle. Nothing in either zone is hard to kill or threatening if you play smart.

When I say "didn't fix anything" I meant the things that people complain about in these threads(Dethh specifically). Many seem to think that no flying will suddenly make people talk to each other and make the community better as a whole. All you got with both timeless isle and thunder isle is "X rare is up". Some think it will add immersion... But, that is debunked when you get immersion when you're leveling regardless(except cata where you could just fly if you wanted), and you can also get MORE immersion after you reach max level and fly and see new things.

[aggs]

True, on Timeless Isle, I died once to Burning Berserker at the beginning of bridge and once in Ordos Sanctuary, but after I learned to how prevent that happening... I haven't died ever since.


True, removing/delaying flying alone won't have significant difference in players socialization on the world, but on Isle of Thunder and Timeless Isle I have had more chit-chat than on the whole Pandaria during the expansion.

Talking on those locations on my server consist of nothing more than rare call outs and celestial/ordos groups, and half of the time the groups are quicker formed just using the "other raid" tab.

[Deadite]

Except the doomsayers will not quit and blizzard won't see a vote from wallets. If people quit it won't be due to flying. Just like people claimed all the players quit due to Cata heroics and Cata first tier raids..... neither of those were the reason for sub loss.

While i am sure some people won't quit specifically over no flying some will. For other people it will be another reason to quit. The proverbial straw. 5 million people have quit for all sorts of reasons.

[TyrianFC]

Don't discount the people who will resub or come back spurred on by promising world changes which include no flying. Its not a one way street.

Talking on those locations on my server consist of nothing more than rare call outs and celestial/ordos groups,.

And its surprisingly nice and refreshing to see chat used heavily for said purpose. Wouldnt you agree?

[urasim]

True, on Timeless Isle, I died once to Burning Berserker at the beginning of bridge and once in Ordos Sanctuary, but after I learned to how prevent that happening... I haven't died ever since.


True, removing/delaying flying alone won't have significant difference in players socialization on the world, but on Isle of Thunder and Timeless Isle I have had more chit-chat than on the whole Pandaria during the expansion.

Anecdotal evidence is terrible evidence. I have had more chit chat at the summoning stone for vaults than I have had in the last two expansions. I guess summoning stones are really good and more need to be implemented.

There wasn't any flight in tBC isle daily hub, firelands daily hub, or either of the outdoor PvP zones and that didn't make the game better or more immersive. I hated those zones with a passion.

I also played in classic, and the general, trade, and defense channels were terrible places to chat... It was filled with Chuck Noris's beard wielding an anal [thunderfury] a year into the game. I am curious to what point in time does Dethh want to travel back to for these "amazing" communities.

[aggs]

Don't discount the people who will resub or come back spurred on by promising world changes which include no flying. Its not a one way street.



And its surprisingly nice and refreshing to see chat used heavily for said purpose. Wouldnt you agree?

Strange it is the exact thing that happened in cities where you can fly or at the shrine where you can as well when people would call out for world bosses... Places you can fly. Odd how people hang out where content is relevant and talk to one another whether or not they can fly.

- - - Updated - - -

A number of people have come in here and talked about how obviously the number of forum users is such a small part of the player base and most of this possible no fly info just won't effect many. That is pretty silly to think it can't have a larger impact. I personally have a handful of friends that play that also would never and have never really gone to forums at all except for stuff like EJ/IV for class info, however they come to me often and ask if I have heard anything about the expac. I have told them about garrisons, ability bloat trimming, and character models and such, and when the news came out about having to wait til patch 6.1 for flying instead of max level almost every one of them said the same thing..I guess I will probably just wait for the patch so I can fly right away at max.

[Bender]

Repeat after me guys: People dont quit over flying. They quit over actual real reasons, even if they want to lament, blame or say its due to flying.

Repeating this over and over doesn't make it universal truth. For some people it might be, but it's still a false statement. The WoD announce got me back to WoW, bought MoP and started playing like crazy again. Was massively hyped for WoD and pre-ordering was a no-brainer. The no flying until 6.1 killed the hype some for me, but I figured that I can quest to cap once and unsub until flight patch and it would be no worries. Now though, they aren't even saying what they are going to do. I'm not buying WoD for doing the quest content once, no matter how hyped I was. The end result will probably be that I don't buy it until they reinstate flying again. If they don't do that then I'm not coming back. I have unsubbed again btw. I came back to prep my chars for WoD and now when I don't even know if I'll play it there is no point to that.

So there you have it, flying is that important to some of us. If they remove it they pretty much remove the open world as a way I like to spend my time in-game. That leaves queueing for shit in town, which is boring as hell.