Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[IxilaFA]

That is what garrisons will allow people to do. Blizzard says they want people to experience the world and immersion but design garrisons that give a player everything they want at the tip of the fingers in their own personalized instance. Just like the level 90 boosts contradict Blizzard's vision so does garrisons.

There is nothing to indicate that garrisons are supposed to replace cities. Odds are they will be a lot like the farm, with gathering stuff you can do once a day, along with follower missions, etc.

Level 90 boosts don't contradict Blizzard's vision since even before WOTLK they were coming up with ways to shorten the leveling process.

Exploration is optional too. So why is flying being removed?

Because Blizzard wants it to be.

Geologists/Ecologists use images from above (helicopters/satellite) along with ground exploration. Why limit yourself to one way to explore the real or virtual world? Why tie one hand behind your back?

That would be a good point if there was anything like geology/ecology in World of Warcraft.

How can you show off your fancy mount in the old world when everyone is boosted to 90? Or sitting in cities waiting for queues?

You think nobody will be in Orgrimmar / Stormwind anymore? Even now there's plenty of people who hang out in the old world.

And the game isn't designed for you either.

Why pay money for a game that has had flying 7+ years if you think it destroys your immersion and fun?

The difference is that I'm not demanding Blizzard only consider my opinions and the things I enjoy when designing the games. I've never once said they should remove flying and I never once said I didn't enjoy it. So don't put words in my mouth about "immersion" and "fun."

[Mafic]

There is nothing to indicate that garrisons are supposed to replace cities. Odds are they will be a lot like the farm, with gathering stuff you can do once a day, along with follower missions, etc.

Level 90 boosts don't contradict Blizzard's vision since even before WOTLK they were coming up with ways to shorten the leveling process.

Garrisons don't replace cities but trivialize professions that is for sure. Players will spend most of their time in garrisons, cities or in dungeosn/bgs/arenas. Which means decreased time out in the world. A personalized instance is not my idea of world immersion IMVHO.

Level 90 boost allows you to bypass 89 levels of questing experience and most of the ground content 1-60. All that immersion is lost.

Because Blizzard wants it to be.

If that were the case they would not introduce boosts or garrisons. And they would give bonus XP/loot for grouping up with other players in world content.

That would be a good point if there was anything like geology/ecology in World of Warcraft.

You think nobody will be in Orgrimmar / Stormwind anymore? Even now there's plenty of people who hang out in the old world.

I use my ground and flying mount to explore the geology and ecology of WoW's environments. And the ecotones that exist as well so since I like to explore using both a ground and flying mount yes it is possible to do.

So more people will be hanging around Orgrimmar/Stormwind afk on their flying mount is immersion? I rather be out exploring the new continent and the new world using both tools not one hand tied behind my back.

The difference is that I'm not demanding Blizzard only consider my opinions and the things I enjoy when designing the games. I've never once said they should remove flying and I never once said I didn't enjoy it. So don't put words in my mouth about "immersion" and "fun."

Instead of straddling the fence tells us do you like flying and do you think it should be removed? If you can't answer the question then you don't have an opinion. And if you don't have an opinion then why are you so invested in trying to prove other people's opinions as if they are wrong?

[IxilaFA]

Garrisons don't replace cities but trivialize professions that is for sure. Players will spend most of their time in garrisons, cities or in dungeosn/bgs/arenas. Which means decreased time out in the world. A personalized instance is not my idea of world immersion IMVHO.

Again, you're making more assumptions. We don't know what role garrisons will play, whether they will trivialize professions or not.

Players have not been in the world for 4 expansions now. I don't see how garrisons will change that in any way.

Level 90 boost allows you to bypass 89 levels of questing experience and most of the ground content 1-60. All that immersion is lost.

If you pay for it. But as I said, Blizzard wants immersion in their current content, yes. They have time and time again shown that they want people to skip the earlier leveling process since most players consider it tedious and pointless.

If that were the case they would not introduce boosts or garrisons. And they would give bonus XP/loot for grouping up with other players in world content.

What? You asked why Blizzard was removing flying and I said because they wanted to. How does the above sentence have anything to do with that?

I use my ground and flying mount to explore the geology and ecology of WoW's environments. And the ecotones that exist as well so since I like to explore using both a ground and flying mount yes it is possible to do.

I'm not saying it's not possible to do. I'm just saying that flying is not required to fully appreciate the environment for what it is.

So more people will be hanging around Orgrimmar/Stormwind afk on their flying mount is immersion? I rather be out exploring the new continent and the new world using both tools not one hand tied behind my back.

A) People are already afk in Orgrimmar / Stormwind, so there's no real difference here. My point is that if you want to flash your fancy mount that it took you hours to get, then there are places where you can do it and yes players will be around.

B) Nobody will care about your flying mount anywhere else in the world because they will probably be too busy leveling or doing the content.

Instead of straddling the fence tells us do you like flying and do you think it should be removed? If you can't answer the question then you don't have an opinion. And if you don't have an opinion then why are you so invested in trying to prove other people's opinions as if they are wrong?

I could care less one way or another. The only problem I have is when people make ridiculous arguments for why flying should stay in game. You don't need to have an opinion on something to argue other people's flawed arguments.

Also, can you please stop using the term "immersion" when it comes to my arguments? I don't argue that Blizzard is removing flying in the name of immersion, and in fact, I think it's a weak argument. I argue that Blizzard is removing flying because it hampers their creativity and what they want to achieve in the world.

[Mafic]

Again, you're making more assumptions. We don't know what role garrisons will play, whether they will trivialize professions or not.
.

It is my opinion. And my assumption is backed by an educated guess which you apparently are not capable of fathoming. They removed professions perks and moved them into garrisons. Having a garrison will net you perks whether that is significant or not will be determined. I argue the removal of professions leaves a massive vacuum that garrisons fill.

Players have not been in the world for 4 expansions now. I don't see how garrisons will change that in any way.

No garrisons exacerbates that problem. That runs counter to Blizzard's goal of removing flying to increase immersion out in the world.

If you pay for it. But as I said, Blizzard wants immersion in their current content, yes. They have time and time again shown that they want people to skip the earlier leveling process since most players consider it tedious and pointless.

Current content become tedious and pointless when you have enough gear and mobs become trivial too.

I'm not saying it's not possible to do. I'm just saying that flying is not required to fully appreciate the environment for what it is.

Actually yes flying is required to see some the geo morphological features missed on the ground. Mores specifically the econtone transitions of one zone from another.

A) People are already afk in Orgrimmar / Stormwind, so there's no real difference here. My point is that if you want to flash your fancy mount that it took you hours to get, then there are places where you can do it and yes players will be around.

B) Nobody will care about your flying mount anywhere else in the world because they will probably be too busy leveling or doing the content.


I could care less one way or another. The only problem I have is when people make ridiculous arguments for why flying should stay in game. You don't need to have an opinion on something to argue other people's flawed arguments.
.

A. A flying mount isn't about prestige for me it is a tool of exploration. Now you are making assumptions.

B. Most people will be waiting for queues so you are right people don't care about cosmetic stuff.

C. Flying has been in the game for 7+ years. How is that a ridiculous argument? That is your opinion.

If you disagree with an opinion it means you have a different opinion. If you choose not to communicate what that difference is you can't argue someones opinion is wrong. Opinions can never be wrong as taste is subjective.

Also, can you please stop using the term "immersion" when it comes to my arguments? I don't argue that Blizzard is removing flying in the name of immersion, and in fact, I think it's a weak argument. I argue that Blizzard is removing flying because it hampers their creativity and what they want to achieve in the world.

Blizzard uses the word immersion so it is fair to use in arguments. And yes Blizzard's argument is weak so our opinions agree on this point. In my opinion the best designed zones were in WotLK and both were designed with flying in mind (Stormpeaks and ICC).

[Sweetpeaz]

Gathering existed before flying did and people farmed back then too. If you don't want to put in the effort to farm gathering professions then you should go for one that lets you sit in the city all day.


But again, these are optional side things. Removing or not removing flying shouldn't be decided based on these things.


Using flying mode is like cheating while exploring, you know. It's like taking a helicopter to look over the Amazon jungle rather than hiking through the jungle itself.

- - - Updated - - -


They're not removing it. You can still show off your fancy mounts in the old world, or you can mount up on them on the ground if you really want.

Sorry that something you enjoy is being taken out of the game. Maybe you should realize, though, that the game isn't designed just for you. If you want to make the personal attachment argument, I'm perfectly fine with it. It is literally the only argument that has any legitimacy since all others are hyperbole and assumptions.

As is the pro anti flight argument. It's all hyperbole whereas my feelings on the subject are not. What is also true is that you can play how you want (without flight) without impacting me at all. Just don't fly. Problem solved for you and me.

[IxilaFA]

As is the pro anti flight argument. It's all hyperbole whereas my feelings on the subject are not. What is also true is that you can play how you want (without flight) without impacting me at all. Just don't fly. Problem solved for you and me.

That is one of the oldest and most tired arguments out there regarding flying. Obviously if there is a more efficient method to use than it will be utilized fully whether players want to or not.

[Katharine]

I've yet to hear a good reason to restrict flying till level cap let alone a good reason to restrict flying for an entire expansion.

[Deleted]

I've yet to hear a good reason to restrict flying till level cap let alone a good reason to restrict flying for an entire expansion.

They can design the expansion cheaper this way.
And they will introduce an artificial time sink wich will make the content and the future patches to last longer.

[Zeakeal]

They can design the expansion cheaper this way.
And they will introduce an artificial time sink wich will make the content and the future patches to last longer.

*Head-desk* And as for an artificial time sink.....this IS an mmo. Its one, large, artificial time sink.

[Paula Deen]

They can design the expansion cheaper this way.
And they will introduce an artificial time sink wich will make the content and the future patches to last longer.

Debunked hundreds of times over, don't make me debunk it again.

[Darkrulerxxx]

No, genius, I did not JOIN the game for flying, but after 8 years, I do consider it a key feature. The only "loss" is theirs. A dedicated fan who wastes thousands of dollars on his hobbies.

but you left the game because of flying. in essence, you lost thousands of dollars, thousands of hours..etc. over flying. blizzard doesn't care about you. but you'll never get those hours back. or your money...experience..etc.

Over flying.

i'll still see you in WoD. everybody comes back.

i hope you unsubbed since isle of thunder, timeless isle..etc. because you've been playing with fly-less content for a while. if you're trying to make a statement NOW,.... that is very hypocritical.

[Nayaga]

*Head-desk* And as for an artificial time sink.....this IS an mmo. Its one, large, artificial time sink.

It is a time sink, but the boring amount of time sink needs to be at a reasonable level to maintain subscriptions. Hard balance to design for, but that's there job.

[TylerGamer84]

Unsubscribing over not being able to fly? If all you do is fly around why are you even playing?

[purebalance]

No, genius, I did not JOIN the game for flying, but after 8 years, I do consider it a key feature. The only "loss" is theirs. A dedicated fan who wastes thousands of dollars on his hobbies.

They lost nothing. They only gained and stopped gaining a trivial amount. You on the other hand wanted to be a diva(I honestly think you're lying but eh) and harmed yourself more than you harmed Blizzard

[khalltusk]

They lost nothing. They only gained and stopped gaining a trivial amount. You on the other hand wanted to be a diva(I honestly think you're lying but eh) and harmed yourself more than you harmed Blizzard

To be fair he pm'd me some details about the removal (a screen shot). So far i've no reason not to believe hes deleted his characters etc.

[-Superman-]

To be fair he pm'd me some details about the removal (a screen shot). So far i've no reason not to believe hes deleted his characters etc.

They are gone. I even tossed out the Hearthstone and D3 that went with it.

- - - Updated - - -

but you left the game because of flying. in essence, you lost thousands of dollars, thousands of hours..etc. over flying. blizzard doesn't care about you. but you'll never get those hours back. or your money...experience..etc.

Over flying.

i'll still see you in WoD. everybody comes back.

i hope you unsubbed since isle of thunder, timeless isle..etc. because you've been playing with fly-less content for a while. if you're trying to make a statement NOW,.... that is very hypocritical.

I spent 2 hours on Timeless Isle to get what I wanted, and then left. Stepped foot on Dino Isle and Thunder Isle one time each, just to see it, and kill a world boss. ToT LFR was my one trip. I had no desire to hang out in no fly zones. Vash'Jir, Exodar, Ghostlands, or any other zone with a no-fly rule. I retired as a role player. I was spending money on alts just to RP, nothing more. Trust me, I know I mean nothing to them. They only care about $$$. So when people get tired of handing over $$$ for lackluster expansions, and their plans for a ground-bound expansion flops (and it will), flying will be reinstated so fast the thread to follow this one will blow UP with I told you so's, and anti-fliers screaming "WHY DID YOU CAVE?!?!".

[quras]

Unsubscribing over not being able to fly? If all you do is fly around why are you even playing?

It's worth the unsubbing.

Why support a company that wants to remove all the time, cash and somewhat "effort" I put into flying mounts? Why would I support blizzard when after 7+ years of this feature they can no longer be bothered to be as creative as they were in TBC and WoTLK which clearly brought greater numbers to wow because of superior content (that also had flying at max level)

If blizzard can't be bothered to keep up a minimal standard in design and development of game features we nto only paid extra cash to have but spent great amounts of time in game acquiring. After this long, why the hell would I pay them?

Flying gets me to where I want to go to actually "have fun" in a timely manner. Flight paths do not do this. I wont easily give up that freedom in game because blizzard wants to show off there amazing dismount mechanics and some bushes they planted.

I've said it before, blizzard new motto is:" There might be fun out here but were going to make sure we waste your time getting to it."

[TyrianFC]

Why support a company that wants to remove all the time, cash and somewhat "effort" I put into flying mounts?

Because they recognize the game will be better off without it, and are prepared to make a bold decision to fix this issue which has dragged on far too long now.

Sounds like a perfectly valid reason to me.

Flying gets me to where I want to go to actually "have fun" in a timely manner. Flight paths do not do this

Spoken like someone who thinks enjoying a destination called 'having fun' hinges on being able to get there 30 seconds quicker - haha

[quras]

Because they recognize the game will be better off without it, and are prepared to make a bold decision to fix this issue which has dragged on far too long now.

Sounds like a perfectly valid reason to me.

No what they recognized is they need to slow content consumption and this is the easiest and laziest way to do it. Especially when viewed that it will affect everyone, everywhere.

If it was a game detriment, we would have seen problems back in TBC and WoTLK. We did not.

It wasn't until cataclysm arrived and story/content started to suck and content in general came less and less frequent and far less interesting. Flying is not the problem.

Spoken like someone who thinks enjoying a destination called 'having fun' hinges on being able to get there 30 seconds quicker - haha

Spoken like someone who thinks there "fun" is the only way to have "fun".

Well lets see. I hate wasting time in line getting to the top of the water slide. If I could get there quicker, my time wouldn't be wasted and my enjoyment level would be higher and I wouldn't mind paying to return to the theme park. SO...

I'll take the Disney fast pass please, even if it only saves me 30 secs. I play games for fun, not to see developers create ways to hinder me from getting to that "fun".

This is a theme park game. It's all about the "fun" not the standing in line till you get to the fun.

If you want to wait in line thats fine. Drink your soda in the hot sun and Mr. sweaty, hairy, burly man who keeps bumping into you can have a little social party but lets not pretend removing options is a good thing.

[cabyio]

So when people get tired of handing over $$$ for lackluster expansions, and their plans for a ground-bound expansion flops (and it will), flying will be reinstated so fast the thread to follow this one will blow UP with I told you so's, and anti-fliers screaming "WHY DID YOU CAVE?!?!".

Oh bull. Most people will just go, "Oh, I can't fly. That sucks. " and then continue playing. The majority won't get their panties in a bunch like you and, "OMG, I quitz and deletes all my accounts!!!"