Democide

[simsumre]

I have a problem with being called a "nut" when I tell people that I don't trust my (or any) Government. I would assume that most who are not completely naive as to how this world works can, at the very least, understand that politics, at it's core, is (and always has been) based around greed and power. And yet I continue to see, on a daily basis, a society that simply does not care. And worse, an entire segment of the population that continues to throw it's complete and blind trust behind anyone within a position of "authority". Do we not learn as our hand burns in the flame? Or is our society, at it's core, corrupt and greedy to begin with?

Every country has the government it deserves. And Government has killed over 260 million people in the 20th century alone. As Hitler said; "The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic." And yet, even with these statistics, people continue to support an entity that has, historically, killed more people than any disease, plague or natural disaster. The argument being, "what else is there"? The point is, it doesn't work. It never has, it never will. And honestly, I'd rather see lawlessness than witness another holocaust.

The question is, how many more people like Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Caligula, Nero, etc. do we need until humanity understands that the system is broken? At least we no longer place people on a throne based on their blood... in most Western nations. But how many more millions, billions even, need die in the next century? For what? False security? This idea that Government loves you and will keep you safe is a lie. Government is incapable of keeping you safe even when it wants to. Look at police response times... and yet we're supposed to hide in a closet when someone breaks down the door?

People need to honestly take some damn responsibility when it comes to their own protection. Stop groveling to Government, it never has and never will be able to save you from this world that none of us are going to leave alive. All it has ever wanted is obedience, control and a disarmed population to rule over. Failing to understand this very basic concept is basically the same as burning history books as there's no use to them when you refuse to read... horse to water and all that.

[Tradewind]

Well no wonder you dislike Government when you can't get through 2 paragraphs without Godwinning yourself D:

I'll worry when my Prime Minister names his horse a Consul.

[s_bushido]

You wouldn't happen to be the person that made that stupid "government explained to an alien" video that was posted the other day, are you? Because I see you like to talk about "Government" as if it is some independent entity as well.

The argument being, "what else is there"? The point is, it doesn't work.

Why would you even acknowledge this question if you aren't going to try and answer it?

Any sufficiently large group of humans will have a government. Even in your supposed lawlessness there would be those with power over others, and guess what that makes them? The government.

[mmokri]

Gain knowledge.
Use knowledge.
Find fucking alternative.
Profit.

[Durandro]

Gain knowledge.
Use knowledge.
Find fucking alternative.
Profit.

Pretty much this.

And to quote Winston Churchill: "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

There's just no alternative, even if what we currently have is barely functioning. People can't be left alone to sort themselves out (as much as I like the notion of anarchy, I wouldn't trust anymore bar myself to not abuse it), so there needs to be government - and democracy is the most successful one thus far.

[mvaliz]

I have a problem with being called a "nut" when I tell people that I don't trust my (or any) Government. I would assume that most who are not completely naive as to how this world works can, at the very least, understand that politics, at it's core, is (and always has been) based around greed and power/snip

Speak for yourself as to whom is naive.

I used to think like you - power corrupts, nothing but greedy politicians in it for themselves while they do nothing, they're all the same, yadda yadda yadda...

Then I got helped by the government when I needed it most. Then I realized they actually do serve a purpose and began to see the GOOD things they produce. City zone planning, sewage system planning, emergency disaster relief, roadside services, fire departments, police departments... they even take care of the elderly (whom most cannot "take some damn responsibility to protect themselves") - it's not power or greed, it's about managing. The government is no different than a manager you might work for. The manager sets the schedules and plans, and does this through your vote to represent you.

Is there corruption? Of course there is.... but sighting it as ALWAYS 100% totally corrupt and worthless is absolutely ridiculous. You think a world of anarchy has no corruption? Do yourself a favor and go live in Darfur for a while...

Here's the bottom line; no matter what they do, how they do it, what they decide or anything - so long as we have the power to vote, we have the power. They can try to influence our vote or, better yet, convince others like yourself to NOT vote out of fear that nothing good will come from it.

There's only one person here groveling, and that's you. Groveling to have your viewpoint and self-esteem validated by others whom you've deemed "naive". No doubt you'll call me some nifty buzzwords like "Sheep" or "Cattle"... but I argue that you, also, are a sheep. The only difference is you stand together in a different fold outside of the barn with the wolves.

You're not the one who sees the "truth" that nobody does. We've all been down your road before... then we opened our eyes and realize that our government serves a very specific purpose and vital function. That function is to be a structured sturdy base whom which we can enjoy things that large population cultures can - because having no government will result in NO cities and no planning and nothing but chaos.

You talk of "protection" - ever read a history book? Ever wonder what led to the fire departments becoming under government wings? I'll tell you - because they used to be privately owned... and then your famed CORRUPTION took place. That's RIGHT! PRIVATE owned FREE MARKET corporations became CORRUPT! Whoda thunk it! Suddenly they were asking for kickbacks in the neighborhood for "no accidents" to happen, and in some other cases competing firehouses literally started fighting in the streets with eachother while the houses burnt down - arguing who was going to put out the fire for the desire of their own self-interest and greed.

- - - Updated - - -

You wouldn't happen to be the person that made that stupid "government explained to an alien" video that was posted the other day, are you? Because I see you like to talk about "Government" as if it is some independent entity as well.
.

And that's a real key thing here IMO what you suggested. "Government" as if it's some independent entity.

That's the real trick.. people just see the face of whichever controversial representative is in the media today... but the reality is the Government is made up of THOUSANDS of people... No - not corrupt millionaires. Everyday people who run desks, phones, clean toilets... secretaries, filing clerks, money managers, supply planners, building managers... and that's excluding aides, atachés, local mayors, town sheriffs, prison wardens,
ect..

And who has those jobs? Average American citizens. Not the Iluminati... not some ghastly gestalt hive-mind council of billionaires... but people. Chances are you actually know somebody with a government job or have known - even somebody higher-up. They're not "vetted" by some massive colander set up by whomever is the current president to secretly "repress all thought". Do you know how many millions of millions of people you'd have to convince? That's, quite literally, millions to one chance that they're all in on this. Do you know how many levels of "trickle down" some plot would have to go through to manipulate ALL of them?

[Wells]

Why does Stalin show our system is broken? That's not our system. Democracy actually has a pretty good track record when its not abridged or restrained.

[mvaliz]

And honestly, I'd rather see lawlessness than witness another holocaust.

This statement is absolutely shameful...

First off - it wasn't because of "Government" that caused the holocaust. It was an ideal combined with human hatred, You don't need a government to end in that...

Secondly - notice there is no "S" in Holocaust. It's not "holocaustS". It was ONE event. Sure, there's plenty of other suffering that has happened - but NEVER EVER on that scale that was the Holocaust.

Secondly, and this might freshen you up a bit - lawlesness today IS another holocaust. The difference is it will not be contained in confined quarters or just subject to one specific sect of the population - but ANYWHERE there's greed and power struggles where bands will get together and begin taking things from others. Food, clothing, women... whatever. You REALLY think those days are better? Barbarian clans slaughtering each other over scraps of food while letting the "weak" and inferm starve or - as people like you might suggest - be "purged"? THAT is not another holocaust to you?

Oh, and by they way, another purpose of Government? To keep history alive - to let people, like YOU, discover and remember that such an event took place so we NEVER repeat those same mistakes ever again. Removing government repeats many many mistakes just as bad as the Holocaust... and you damn well know that.

PS. And the best part? Do you think you... YOU... would survive in a lawless world? Given your attitude, it would take a mere gang of thugs to beat you down to a pulp the moment you mouth off some idealistic crap of self-interest and self-protection. They'd rob you, rape you, and take what you own... you can sit there and say "I HAVE A GUN!" or training or everything... nobody can prepare for all things. And those that do are spread out too far...

[Sunseeker]

Government has done nothing. It has never killed a single soul. It never thought to itsself one day, that the world would be better off without the people it didn't like, and resolved to kill them. It never wondered over which explosive device was more effective at killing people.

All those slights you blame on government were committed by people, enabled by people, supported by people. Perhaps government made it easier to organize those people into who was going to live and who was going to die, but history shows us people are no less adept at killing other people without government. People kill people. That is always who has been to blame. Government is just a scapegoat. Without it, people will still kill people. Of course, people with government are going to be more effective at killing those without.

[mvaliz]

Why does Stalin show our system is broken? That's not our system. Democracy actually has a pretty good track record when its not abridged or restrained.

Apparently he lumps everything under one category of "Government" and sights that as the problem, but apparently misses the corruption problem being the concept of Self-only-Interest. That's what leads to politicians being greedy.

[Mormolyce]

As Hitler said; "The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic."

Hitler didn't say that.

You're thinking of Stalin. He didn't say it either though.

Why would a brutal dictator make an ironic statement about their own crimes?

Nobody is entirely sure who originally came up with that quote, it's been re-quoted so many times. The one thing that's for sure is that it has always been intended as satire.

[Deleted]

Anyone else sick of people that live in a free country complaining about their so-called corrupt government? When elsewhere in the world people have to face real corrupted governments that, for example, allow stoning of a woman for showing a leg.

Ungrateful little shit comes to mind.

[Geobram]

I think the OP wants to live in Northern Somalia. There is no government so that makes it the ideal place for him.
In other words, No it doesnt work, not having a government. Please do not promote the idea. We can clearly see that when there is no government (or no real system at least to rule) that very few benefit from it. Northern Somalia is one of the poorest and most dangerous places on Earth, because it has no government.

[Jackmoves]

I dont agree. I think the reasons for getting into politics varries dramatically, actually, I know it does.

But lets ask yourself this, if you dislike the government, what are you doing about it, apart from writing on this forum?
Do you do anything that can be practically applied to the betterment of sociaty and the body of governance? What are your options? How often do you write yoyr representatives?

What more can you do to make a change? Brainstorm, then act.

Every political movement or change starts from 0, it might seem like a monumental task and the difficulty of participating or changing something will be different depending on your location. But dont be a whiner, it makes no difference to your cause and people just find it annoying. You are no better then the couch potatoes that prefer to watch reality tv.

Also... lol

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[belfpala]

Also... lol
[long quote snip]

My mild form of OCD wonders what the asterisks mean. I'm left without resolution, damn you!

[Deleted]

Government is there to protect and to serve, yes it has some flaws but those flaws dwarf to the comparrison that government does for YOU fire departments police stations hospitals the very basic things we take for granted to day are BECAUSE we have a government.

The one is there to save lives and contain fires while the other is there to protect and server when at the same time one wil heal people while at the same time research new ways to cure diseases so we might one day become immortal trough medical science and all because of the fucking government that does everything for you while you spout bullshit left right and center.

Do pricate companies do these things to? yes ofcourse some do but in the end THEY are doing it FOR GREED AND POWER! while the government does it because the people want it so they can proggress as a race and not become wealthy and influencial.

You can keep spouting nonsense left right center thinking you are the one enlightend , but matter of fact boy is that YOU are the one who had a clouded vision. I hope one day people like you wil realise that in order to proggress we need government that one day we need government to enforce laws that protect YOU! without these laws you would already be chased by maniacs and get murdered because there would be no consequences or i nfact you woulnd even be able to say this because we woulnd have proggress passed our hunter/gatherer lifestyle wich you are so eager to live by. sorry for my grammer but this just had to be sed.

[mmokri]

Op did not say word about anarchy.

[Dezerte]

That sure is one slippery slope.

Not that I fully trust my government, but it's the best we've got. The law of the jungle is not a prettier place, it's literally oxymoronic to believe that.

[belfpala]

Op did not said word about anarchy.

Read the final paragraph again. It doesn't use the word, but anarchy is what it says.

[simsumre]

I'd like to expand the reason to this thread. Government is the leading cause of unnatural death within the past century... I'd say throughout our entire history, but I couldn't source that if asked. If that's the best we got, then what does that say about our species? Honestly, every time I bring up this subject all I hear is about how people can't live without Government. How bad it would be. And yet, with Government, all it does is kill, torture and hoard wealth. And sure, you could bring up all the good things Government does. Fire departments, emergency services, helping the elderly, etc. But to be honest, when you base these numbers strictly on deaths, Government has killed more than it's helped.

People say Democracy is the best we have. You know which Government hasn't been tried? No Government. So how would we know? At the very least people should be moving towards limited Government, not demanding for larger control. Honestly, I think most of you are simply afraid of losing your safety nets and having to survive without the tax payers being forced to bail you out. As I said in my OP: "Or is our society, at it's core, corrupt and greedy to begin with?"