Fury vs Arms iLevel

[Edoran]

I'm new to warrior, as I rerolled to fit a need in my new guild, so excuse the newbness.

I see that fury seems to be the consensus top dps spec for warriors, but I also know ilevel plays a huge part in that and in particular crit percentage. My question is at what point does fury begin to out-perform arms? Is it at a certain ilevel generally or a certain crit percentage? Is one spec significantly harder to play?

Thanks.

[Luko]

I'm new to warrior, as I rerolled to fit a need in my new guild, so excuse the newbness.

I see that fury seems to be the consensus top dps spec for warriors, but I also know ilevel plays a huge part in that and in particular crit percentage. My question is at what point does fury begin to out-perform arms? Is it at a certain ilevel generally or a certain crit percentage? Is one spec significantly harder to play?

Thanks.

A while back, I heard 30% unbuffed so that's what I pushed for, but you can probably make the switch much sooner if you want. It's good damage regardless, however unless you're pushing for hard heroic progression, don't expect arms to be super far behind. It's doing fine right now. Play whichever spec you enjoy most.

[Valech]

Arms outpaces Fury at cleave fights, even in high Itemlvl areas. Fury pulls ahead in single target fights. Tho I might cause some ruckus over the statement, I believe Fury is slightly harder to play, cause all depends on the correct handling of your CS window.
With low itemlvl Arms has an advtantage cause Fury needs high amounts of crit to feel fluid. I am not sure if there is any consensus at what itemlvl or which crit treshhold Fury starts to perform well. I would guess around 510. But again, even in BiS gear Arms is ahead of Fury in cleave fights.

[Edoran]

Yeah I read 525-530 before, but it was an older statement and wanted to see what people here though. I'm at 28% unbuffed (524 ilevel) so I figure I'll stay fury to master the rotation. Thanks for the input.

[Fog]

Item level doesn't mean much. 30% crit unbuffed is mentioned, and it's a solid statement. However, if you can't play fury correct, you're better off as arms at any given ilvl and crit %. Try both specs out, read what you can read in the stickies and take it from there.
While fury is one of the highest damage dealing specs atm, arms isn't that far behind, especially since most fights have some sort of cleaving. Play what you want, just play it well before judging each spec.

[Trubo]

The Crit % has increased throughout the expansion. With what's readily available in 5.4 I wouldn't consider Fury over Arms without satisfying the following:

1. Do you have at least 30% Crit?
2. Do you have Evil Eye of Galakras (any version)?
3. Do you have two weapons that are of the same item level?
4. Do you have T16 2 set (any version)?

If you can answer yes to all of those things I'd switch from Arms to Fury. If you answered No to any of them just stay Arms.

[meteo]

1. Do you have at least 30% Crit?
2. Do you have Evil Eye of Galakras (any version)?
3. Do you have two weapons that are of the same item level?
4. Do you have T16 2 set (any version)?

You don't need EEoG for Fury. You still pick SB without it but you'll only be able to use it in every second CS. Sure having it makes the rotation easier but it isn't something you need to play fury. Same for the T16 2pc it's not needed for Fury and it's actually stronger for Arms than it is for Fury.

All you need is enough crit and the weapons.

[Valech]

You don't need EEoG for Fury. You still pick SB without it but you'll only be able to use it in every second CS. Sure having it makes the rotation easier but it isn't something you need to play fury. Same for the T16 2pc it's not needed for Fury and it's actually stronger for Arms than it is for Fury.

All you need is enough crit and the weapons.

If I recall correctly, if you either go TG or have the EEoG, SB pulls ahead of BB. If you dont have EEoG and are SmF, BB is ahead. I think.

[Darkfriend]

The Crit % has increased throughout the expansion. With what's readily available in 5.4 I wouldn't consider Fury over Arms without satisfying the following:

1. Do you have at least 30% Crit?
2. Do you have Evil Eye of Galakras (any version)?
3. Do you have two weapons that are of the same item level?
4. Do you have T16 2 set (any version)?

If you can answer yes to all of those things I'd switch from Arms to Fury. If you answered No to any of them just stay Arms.

I would disagree strongly with this. For one, T16 2p is stronger for arms.

[Bigbazz]

I'd definitely say Arms is easier, given that you can play 2 different styles (4 GCD CS window with Slam or 5gcd CS window with Op/HS) and do well with either, the spec relies on you getting consistent and reliable colossus smash procs and feeding yourself rage with the 2set... For me at least I find Arms is a lot easier and definitely a lot more forgiving than Fury, more enjoyable too.

I'd say the crossover point is quite high, it's hard to really estimate and Ilvl (depends on what parts you have to make that ilvl) but I'd not switch to Fury before ilvl550, and I'd still keep an Arms spec for those cleave fights.

[Trubo]

I'm aware you don't need EEoG for Fury. However, given that as a fresh Warrior it's much easier to gear and raid as Arms I wouldn't swap to Fury until I had all of those criteria met since they make the Fury rotation so much smoother and because it's much easier to get a single weapon upgrade than it is to get two.

[flyimages]

Yeah I read 525-530 before, but it was an older statement and wanted to see what people here though. I'm at 28% unbuffed (524 ilevel) so I figure I'll stay fury to master the rotation. Thanks for the input.

i'm at ilvl 531, tried both fury and arms on naz, we wiped when naz at 5%, started off as fury, then switched to arms on 2nd try, so far i noticed a 15-20k dps diff. even ran a couple heroics, switching arms/fury, so far im thinking maybe 540+ maybe for fury warrior to surpass arms.. or maybe even more

also was using the exact 2 same 2H weapon with same ilvl.

[Luko]

i'm at ilvl 531, tried both fury and arms on naz, we wiped when naz at 5%, started off as fury, then switched to arms on 2nd try, so far i noticed a 15-20k dps diff. even ran a couple heroics, switching arms/fury, so far im thinking maybe 540+ maybe for fury warrior to surpass arms.. or maybe even more

also was using the exact 2 same 2H weapon with same ilvl.

This may simply be in player error. I wont quiz you on how well you've been performing your rotation but many of us switched to Fury back in ToT with 515-525 item levels and out DPSed our arms spec counterparts on single target encounters. It takes a little practice but it's ALL about maximizing damage done in colossus. The rest is just build up.

[Archimtiros]

i'm at ilvl 531, tried both fury and arms on naz, we wiped when naz at 5%, started off as fury, then switched to arms on 2nd try, so far i noticed a 15-20k dps diff. even ran a couple heroics, switching arms/fury, so far im thinking maybe 540+ maybe for fury warrior to surpass arms.. or maybe even more

also was using the exact 2 same 2H weapon with same ilvl.

As has been said above, there really is no good item level target. I was the one who first started recommending 30% crit unbuffed as a good point to swap over.
I believe it is the point at which the Fury rotation becomes consistent enough to play well, and Fury damage starts to take off. If you want a true answer, you simply have to sim it, as there are a lot of factors to consider.


Things I would get before seriously swapping to Fury:

30% unbuffed crit
2x 2h weapons
Evil Eye of Galakras trinket (preferably Flex +)

[Bigbazz]

This may simply be in player error. I wont quiz you on how well you've been performing your rotation but many of us switched to Fury back in ToT with 515-525 item levels and out DPSed our arms spec counterparts on single target encounters. It takes a little practice but it's ALL about maximizing damage done in colossus. The rest is just build up.

Not sure how this is relevant. Fury was ahead in the first tier, and even more so after the big Arms nerf. Fury was ahead in TOT and Arms got a big buff for SOO, hence the completely different viewpoints on when to switch spec. Arms has never been better while content was relevant in MOP.

[Secondwind]

This may simply be in player error. I wont quiz you on how well you've been performing your rotation but many of us switched to Fury back in ToT with 515-525 item levels and out DPSed our arms spec counterparts on single target encounters. It takes a little practice but it's ALL about maximizing damage done in colossus. The rest is just build up.

That was in ToT. And yes, during that tier 515-520 was high enough for Fury to pull ahead.

In case you missed it, in 5.4 they gave Arms buffed since it was falling behind, so Arms remains viable until 540ish. It even beats Fury as high as 530, and during the 530-540 range they're pretty much identical, within a couple thousand dps either way.

[Eyndras]

Warriors in general are all about weapons. If you can manage to get two 540 or 553 weapons on the go and the majority of your gear is our BiS (not literally heroic WF, but their lesser equivalents, even LFR), you should be good to go. Fury is also super dependent on the Evil Eye of Galakras. I've found that the fully upgraded LFR one is even fine for Fury to fit Storm Bolt into our rotation.

[Valkaneer]

I'm aware you don't need EEoG for Fury. However, given that as a fresh Warrior it's much easier to gear and raid as Arms I wouldn't swap to Fury until I had all of those criteria met since they make the Fury rotation so much smoother and because it's much easier to get a single weapon upgrade than it is to get two.

My warrior is at 530 ilvl and as far as I can see from Ask Mr. Robot 528 EEoG is under Brutal Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault. The most that I can tell EEoG is not BIS TTT and Skeer's Bloodsoaked Talisman is. I even simC the Flex 540 EEoG and the Brutal Talisman still came out on top. The EEoG I think only comes out better if your expertise is caped without without an exp trink.

[Deleted]

my advice would also be to only take gear with crit unless ofc it is a crazy big illvl increase. But you do wanna try to build as much crit as possible, the more you have the smoother fury will be to play.

[Valkaneer]

Warriors in general are all about weapons. If you can manage to get two 540 or 553 weapons on the go and the majority of your gear is our BiS (not literally heroic WF, but their lesser equivalents, even LFR), you should be good to go. Fury is also super dependent on the Evil Eye of Galakras. I've found that the fully upgraded LFR one is even fine for Fury to fit Storm Bolt into our rotation.

Why do you say fury is super dependant on EEoG when AMR and the Sims do not back that up?