Malaysian Airlines flight carrying 295 people has been shot down in Ukraine

[Ulmita]

It is funny how he suddenly disappeared once "the only credible source" he linked proved to be contradicting his statements.


I think it is clear that Bakis was sarcastic.

I am here =)
Only thing i can tell is you guys have your views, we have ours. I think its logical in situations like this for multiple opinions to exist. Time will tell (hopefully)
Until then arrivederci

[Cairhiin]

I am here =)
Only thing i can tell is you guys have your views, we have ours. I think its logical in situations like this for multiple opinions to exist. Time will tell (hopefully)
Until then arrivederci

I totally agree with you there, and we just need to wait for real evidence, and then hope everyone actually accepts that evidence.

[bclumas]

I am here =)
Only thing i can tell is you guys have your views, we have ours. I think its logical in situations like this for multiple opinions to exist. Time will tell (hopefully)
Until then arrivederci

"We have ours". Who is this "we"? You and Ethas? You realize that he was the one in almost every single post spouting that the Ukrainian government is full of Nazis.. and that you backed him up... right?

You realize that you were the one posting videos about OSCE's complete access to a crash site... three days before the actual plane crash.. right?

You can keep your opinions. They look diseased. I'll stick to my facts. Please keep your "we" out of my "reality". Thanks <3

[Kalis]

I am here =)
Only thing i can tell is you guys have your views, we have ours. I think its logical in situations like this for multiple opinions to exist. Time will tell (hopefully)
Until then arrivederci

When a person's view is clouded by their desire for something to be true, and flies in the face of every piece of evidence presented, then it isn't a particularly worthwhile opinion.

People hate to hear that their opinion is worthless, for obvious reasons, but sometimes an opinion is just worthless.

[MerinPally]

I am here =)
Only thing i can tell is you guys have your views, we have ours. I think its logical in situations like this for multiple opinions to exist. Time will tell (hopefully)
Until then arrivederci

Correct, but an opinion without evidence or reason to think it is called a guess. You have guesses, we have a lot of things pointing our direction just nothing concrete. You don't even have the precursor to concrete. Not all opinions are created equal. Comparing these 2 is like Brazil vs Germany in the football, guess who is who.

[Zigzagzoom]

News here reports that somebody might have stolen credit cards etc. from the deceased. According to the banks. Classy....

Credit cards and cell phones. Classy group of people use cell phones and credit cards off of dead bodies.

[Tisane]

Just seen the latest footage of rebels being drunk and threatening investigators to go away. What the fuck? Bodies are shown rotting in the heath of the sun for the past 48 hours. At first I was against military intervention because I think everyone deserves their chances, but now I've seen those drunks; please send in a military team and arrest or kill the drunks/rebels if they aren't going to assist the investigators. The separatists aren't respectful in any way at all, the rebels are telling investigators to ''go away or we will let you feel that you have to go away'', what kind of fucking threat is that against investigators? I don't care what Putin would think, just get rid of the rebels RIGHT. NOW. Call in the military.

[Puupi]

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/a...en/503754.html

I wonder if this is a reliable source for Ulmita.

[Shalcker]

I even said that I do not think it's one entity, you just cropped that part out.
You said that you'd have preferred someone else other than the rebels (but not the ukrainians) and that could have happened if OSCE was there, they will take over - but the rebels stopped them.

Wait, how many OSCE observers do you think are there? They definitely cannot guard wreckage like rebels day and night at 10+ square kilometers, nor can OSCE comb through it in a single day, so rebel guards is better then nothing.

You have been defending the rebels all thread and saying that they've not been doing this or that and whatever and you're now backtracking or at least starting to believe the evidence. Noone is suggesting that Ukrainians should have taken over.

No, what i was asking is what exactly are they doing (or claimed to be doing), and what i've seen from links seems reasonable considering the situation just as i expected.

I was genuinely curious, i asked, i got what i wanted, thanks.

You did however admit you see them just as likely to tamper with evidence, and by all your other posts you see that as pretty damn likely.

No, you're reading that wrong. I find rebels unlikely to tamper with evidence as amount of people in their ranks do not allow for experts that could do proper "tampering"; not so for Kiev side with US support. Thus the rest of your conclusion is also wrong.

Rebels are also unlikely to think they were the ones who shot down the plane because they mostly have no idea if they had BUK complex or not, and consider Kiev to be close to incarnation of Satan capable of anything.

[Cairhiin]

Just seen the latest footage of rebels acting like drunks and telling investigators to go away. What the fuck? Bodies are shown rotting in the heath of the sun for the past 48 hours. At first I was against military intervention because I think everyone deserves their chances, but now I've seen those drunks; please send in a military team and arrest or kill the drunks/rebels if they aren't going to assist the investigators. The separatists aren't respectful in any way at all, he's telling investigators to ''go away or I will let you feel that you have to go away'', what kind of fucking threat is that against investigators? I don't care what Putin thinks, just get rid of the rebels RIGHT. NOW. Call in the military.

I think more and more Dutch people are starting to believe we need to send troops to secure the site, and make certain our dead are treated with respect.

[Nohara]

If you want to see those responsible brought to justice, you're looking in the wrong place. The European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) and the Malaysian government are solely responsible for routing civilian flights over a war zone. Endangering the lives of innocent, unsuspecting people to save a buck. Any excuses they make are just smoke and mirrors by cowards afraid to take responsibility for their incompetence and greed.

Uhu, don't blame the one who pulled the trigger, blame the one walking accidently in it's iron sights. The good old ostrich technique, good for you! *applauds

[Collegeguy]

I recall the putinpolice first denying this plane was even moving from west to east which is one of the many logical explanations of who shot it down. It's a house of cards argument at this point.

[Shalcker]

I think more and more Dutch people are starting to believe we need to send troops to secure the site, and make certain our dead are treated with respect.

Just call in peacekeepers, 100% support from Russia guaranteeed!

[Zigzagzoom]

The smartest thing the rebels could have done was to back the fuck out of that area and allow the impartial professional international aviation monitors to do their job. Instead of jerking everyone around and acting like complete uncivilized jackasses. Any amount of sympathy they had for their plight in the worlds public is gone at this point. They are disgusting I hope the EU goes in there and takes care of business. Stealing from dead bodies, preventing authorities, preventing proper treatment of bodies. Pigs!!!

[Uzkin]

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/a...en/503754.html

I wonder if this is a reliable source for Ulmita.

From Wikipedia:
The Moscow Times is an English-language daily newspaper published in Moscow, Russia since 1992. The paper's circulation in 2008 stood at 35,000 copies [1] and the newspaper is typically given out for free at places English-language "expats" attend, including hotels, cafés and restaurants, as well as by subscription, though it is being increasingly read by English-speaking Russians.[2] It is not available at newsstands.[3] The newspaper regularly publishes articles by prominent Russian journalists, many of whom take critical positions towards the current Russian government in general and sympathetic to Western policies in the region. The newspaper, as well as its sister publication, The St. Petersburg Times, are owned by the Finland-based Sanoma Corporation.

Eli kyseessä on venäjällä julkaistava suomalainen, länsimyönteinen sanomalehti. (Sry for using Finnish)

[xskarma]

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/a...en/503754.html

I wonder if this is a reliable source for Ulmita.

"Q:Who owns the newspaper?
A: The Moscow Times is the founding publication of Sanoma Independent Media (SIM) Publishing House, which was established as Independent Media in March 1992 by a group of Dutch investors headed by Derk Sauer."

I have a shrewd suspicion he won't take it very seriously as a source because of that. You know with dutch people being the largest group of casualties.

[Shalcker]

The smartest thing the rebels could have done was to back the fuck out of that area and allow the impartial professional international aviation monitors to do their job. Instead of jerking everyone around and acting like complete uncivilized jackasses. Any amount of sympathy they had for their plight in the worlds public is gone at this point. They are disgusting I hope the EU goes in there and takes care of business. Stealing from dead bodies, preventing authorities, preventing proper treatment of bodies. Pigs!!!

As far as i know impartial professional international aviation monitors (which OSCE is NOT) haven't even arrived at the site yet because due to Donetsk airport being closed they cannot fly there so it'll take a day of driving to get there...

[Puupi]

Now that link backfired a bit. Had no idea it was actually owned by a Finnish company. But hell, that might make it the only actual reliable Russian news source.

[Cairhiin]

Just call in peacekeepers, 100% support from Russia guaranteeed!

I'm entirely fine with UN peacekeepers, but we're at the point someone has to do something as this crime scene is currently a contaminated mess, and no one deserves to have their corpse desecrated. They are innocent bystanders to a war they have nothing to do with. It's disgusting, saddening, and maddening. I feel for the relatives of the deceased who have to watch this horror story unfold on the news, seeing their loved ones, left to rot in a field.

[Ulmita]

As i said in my previous posts. Scene needs to be preserved as intact as possible from OSCE. If OSCE is actually being held back from rebels then UN needs to send in peace force to secure site. Then the experts need to do their work. Lets all hope we will get to see who is back from this monstrosity and brought to justice.

Until then everyone is speculating since there can be no concrete data other then one that will come from examining the wreckage. Sides will point to each other and there will be a lot of misinformation. Telling off others because they have a different point of view than yours its just childish.