Why doesnt a game's community matter anymore?

[Halicia]

How matter of fact and emotionless this sounds saddens me. It should always matter, regardless of era. How we became such ambivalent bots towards each other because of that increased connectivity is one of the greater tragedies introduced by LFG and LFR.

there's a huge difference between 'mattering', 'interacting', and 'relying'.

A couple notable MMOs have launched in recent years trumpeting a 'return to the golden age' of MMOs where there was no room for casual content, and you had to rely on others in order to accomplish anything. They generally flop.

[Djuntas]

We'll few replies on 1st page made good sence.

Still can't say I don't miss it aswell. It was great inn vanilla and TBC with you're rep following you inn wow. You only had you're rep if you wanted to get anywhere.

[Tastyfish]

I always have found it odd that after all the research that is put into gaming, people still think it's a good idea to force personalities that gravitate toward an MMO into having to interact with other personalities that gravitate toward MMOs.

[Djuntas]

In modern MMOs you effectively have infinity people to play with, most of which you'll never see again after the end of the run.

In a game like EQ you had something along the lines of 12 people total in Guk with you, and you'd probably see those same people there the next time you stopped by.

Feelt the same inn TBC wow aswell. Back then I knew so many people from running 5 mans etc...fun.

[-aiko-]

When it comes to MMOs I think it was a natural progression to add things like LFG, though it did have some unintended consequences. Gamers who started playing MMOs, moving on from Ultima to Everquest to WoW etc kept aging and aging. We started getting jobs, and families, and children. We had less and less time to involve into the games we loved. So they added these tools to keep us playing. Then, naturally, new players started to come in. They had these new tools from the start, and the community became less and less familiar. When I walk through Stormwind City I mostly see unfamiliar names. It's just a different world now.

[Gevoth]

We started getting jobs, and families, and children. We had less and less time to involve into the games we loved. So they added these tools to keep us playing.

This is a point I've seen made many times in recent years. I don't believe it. The reason is something I've seen consistently since the advent of this argument. When a new expansion or major patch releases people find the same amounts of time they used to invest just as easily have in the past. It's a matter of weighing time investment against estimated entertainment value. Which is fine, but I wish people wouldn't pretend that people with a job and a family can't have a hobby with a substantial time investment. It's OK to just say I'd rather be playing Legos with my kid than sitting in SW doing nothing. No offense intended, but this argument has bugged me since I first saw it used at the start of the LFG debate.

These tools don't keep us playing. They make it possible to continue playing end-game without a substantial time investment. These tools happen to be inherently anti-social and I believe they need other system structures to counter-balance the negativity. The problem then comes when the "fuckwads" find a way to have fun with the counter weight. For example the vote-kick system is a community tool intended for self-regulation in a post-LFG world. The rules of which have been re-iterated upon many times now due to people finding ways to facilitate unsavory behavior with it. So much so that it's currently near a point of uselessness.

What we need are brilliantly designed counter measures to allow social order to continue to exist in an anonymous environment.

I've heard radical ideas on this such as: A behavioral gauge on a player regulated by player votes. The type of thing I can foresee being abused horribly for example: Pre-made 24man in raid finder down-vote bombing the poor individual that has the misfortune of being pulled into their group. Now there are ways to regulate this too for example: You get no social vote on guildies, no social vote on friends, no negative social vote when in a pre-made group, and so on... A system like this is more extreme than most flavors of Dorritos and would probably be completely unwelcomed by the players. But over the years I've leaned further toward a solution such as this as the answer. With one key difference from what most people would expect which allows for many of the counter measures needed to balance the system to be unnecessary. It would only be positive votes. So it wouldn't technically point out the "fuckwads" it would point out the awesome people.

Again I firmly believe we can do better as a community, but I also firmly believe we can't without some help from developers and administators.

[-aiko-]

This is a point I've seen made many times in recent years. I don't believe it. The reason is something I've seen consistently since the advent of this argument. When a new expansion or major patch releases people find the same amounts of time they used to invest just as easily have in the past.

Right, because we are taking time off. You can't do that often with a job. You can have a hobby, obviously, I'm not saying that you cannot, but you can no longer as easily devote 2 hours to finding a group and another hour in a dungeon or 4+ hours raiding in an MMO. With a job and a family we also gain responsibility.

While I have no doubt that some parents find hours a day to play games, the truth is that for most of us this time is not a luxury that we have and I wonder if they will be good parents to their children. If I were to get married, for example, on top of work I would have to juggle my husband (more likely wife ), potential children and chores. It wouldn't be feasible to spend 4+ hours in a raid. WoW could still be my hobby but I wouldn't fool myself into believing I could get my weekly valor cap if they removed LFG. LFR and LFG are why I am able to continue playing the way I want to. I imagine the case is the same for many others.

Now that isn't to say that I think the current system is what we need. This current system is, like I said, what caused the issues we have with community. Developers didn't foresee what would happen, as they added the tools for convenience. We can and should improve it. Wildstar has taken some steps by allowing LFG to be restricted by server but it's still not enough.

If I were to make an MMO I would restrict LFG tools to the same server period. At the end of the dungeon or raid, I would pop up a message asking if they wanted to add any party members to their friends list, and perhaps rate the efficiency of the party (not the individual players). There would be an invisible system that helped people match up with players in future sessions. There would be more UI input for getting to the dungeon (not necessarily by making players ride to the entrance, but perhaps requiring them to visit an NPC Mage and buy a portal....I dunno). Etc etc.

I don't know if any of those ideas would work...but well something needs to change. We can agree on that.

[Gevoth]

I don't know if any of those ideas would work...but well something needs to change. We can agree on that.

Nor do I, but I do know it's very nice to see people talking about finding solutions instead of only pointing fingers. And yes we can... completely.

[Queen of Hamsters]

It does. I can't play the game I play the way I want without the community, and it has been working pretty good so far. There will ALWAYS be drama and conflict when people are involved, this is nowhere near unique to the online gaming community of ANY game, even though some games allow for it to grow more than others.

I take it as a lesson on who to spend time on and not. Someone behaving like a douche in a game when anonymous, will likely have that side to him/her when not in front of the computer as well. I take great care to surround myself with people that are patient, in for the fun and caring. The ones that are not stick out like rusty nails and tend to eliminate themselves from the environment I'm in since the majority are NOT like that.

To me, the community feels exactly like it has since I started online gaming, and it matters as much to me now as it did then, and I STILL don't expect it all to smell of roses.

As for LFG and LFR...I rarely encounter any issues in either, no more than I did when I had to spend bloody hours spamming trade only to have some idiot join and then leave forcing me back to spam in trade. I once went back and forth 4 times spamming for people just to finish Utgarde Pinnacle. Fond memories...-_-

[Nirawen]

As for LFG and LFR...I rarely encounter any issues in either, no more than I did when I had to spend bloody hours spamming trade only to have some idiot join and then leave forcing me back to spam in trade. I once went back and forth 4 times spamming for people just to finish Utgarde Pinnacle. Fond memories...-_-

Oh.. so you're one of those?