Do you like Holy Power or do you dislike it? Somewhere in the middle?

[Ryuji]

Title. What do you think about Holy Power? Love it? Hate it? Wish it was different in X way or affected more abilities/less abilities? Am curious as to what fellow Paladin players think.

[Xs]

I wish we weren't so dependant on Holy Power as Holy, Prot and Ret feel decent but Holy is so awkwardly balanced between HP and Mastery that things feel very small, and the only real satistaction is looking at the healing meter afterwards, rather than "oh goody, that number is big and it did something quite effective".

[Highlord Hanibuhl]

I like it, but I want it to function more like the embers from a warlock.
- It should be visibly shown you have holy power in you by glowing eyes and glowing aura;
- It should not fill up in 3 hits, let each attack give different amounts of holy power, making you choose between attacks.
- Do not give holy power only one use

That's it

It's a pretty neat enhancement nonetheless.

Now that I'm writing this, I'm wondering why we still have mana...

[Ryuji]

I wish we weren't so dependant on Holy Power as Holy, Prot and Ret feel decent but Holy is so awkwardly balanced between HP and Mastery that things feel very small, and the only real satistaction is looking at the healing meter afterwards, rather than "oh goody, that number is big and it did something quite effective".

For me holy power feels...okay, but I think it could be much better. I like the Destruction Warlock embers thought, where the more you have, the more your Paladin glows and emits holy energy/light, stuff like that. I don't mind the system where one ability will give 1 holy power and you keep going through abilities to where you can spend it on a hard hitting ability, a defensive measure or a heal of sorts(though less so on the healing part since I stopped being interested in Holy Paladins when Cataclysm hit).

Thing is, I don't really know what to do with holy power to change it. It...functions, I suppose.

I like it, but I want it to function more like the embers from a warlock.
- It should be visibly shown you have holy power in you by glowing eyes and glowing aura;
- It should not fill up in 3 hits, let each attack give different amounts of holy power, making you choose between attacks.
- Do not give holy power only one use

That's it

It's a pretty neat enhancement nonetheless.

Now that I'm writing this, I'm wondering why we still have mana...

I'd wager that Paladins still have mana because one of the specs is a healer one, thus mana will always be a main point to be able to avoid going OOM. Seeing as how Prot and Ret regen mana really quickly where you can't really go OOM unless you heal with them. Either way, healing feels clunky with the holy power system for me, don't really like it. I've tried it a few times but...eh. Ret feels okay with it, very systematic for the most part and Prot feels nice when you can keep Shield of the Righteous going while banking up a super heal in case you need it, etc. Holy just...eh. Idunno.

[MBDTF]

I like it, but I want it to function more like the embers from a warlock.
- It should be visibly shown you have holy power in you by glowing eyes and glowing aura;
- It should not fill up in 3 hits, let each attack give different amounts of holy power, making you choose between attacks.
- Do not give holy power only one use

That's it

It's a pretty neat enhancement nonetheless.

Now that I'm writing this, I'm wondering why we still have mana...

chaos bolt would be neat too

[Eace]

Voted for "Hate it, I wish it was gone".

I haven't really enjoyed any Pala spec since WotLK. HoPo is not a bad mechanic per se, but it just feels really stupid to me, especially for Holy. Imo Holy was best in Wrath when we had a fast, cheap heal, and a slower, expensive heal. And Sacred Shield that left a HoT on the target when hit by FoL/HL. Bring that back.

[Simulacrum]

Secondary resources are a good concept in itself, but I think that if HoPo were a resource measured in increments of 1/100 instead of 1/5 it could solve a lot of our problems.

[Demsi]

Its allright, but i would like to see more in-depht with it

[Tangra]

Yeah, like others said, it's too shallow of a system to justify how many expansions were spent developing and tweaking it. I think that all of the time spent on it is the reason why Ret in particular feels like it has not been improved in any way since Wrath, and feels much worse in many ways. It's basically a whole combo system that does little more than regulate how often one finisher, Templar's Verdict, is used; Inquisition is gone and never needed to exist, Divine Storm is very weak and so is WoG.

Templar's Verdict could have simply been given a cooldown in order to not waste so much time on Holy Power development, and actually, what is even more sad is that Templar's Verdict was created because they wanted to take free cleaving away from Divine Storm, and then a few months later they decided free cleaving is not actually a problem and gave it back to many specs. In other words, Ret has basically been running in a circle for 4+ years, and Holy Power is at the center of that circle.

Overall, Holy Power was created to fix certain "problems" with Ret design in Wrath, however, these problems were later determined to not be problems at all, and actually incorporated into the design of other classes. At the end of wrath the developers aimed at:

1) Making Ret more complex to play.
2) Reduce free cleaving.

About a year later, their stance was:

1) This game is too complicated.
2) Free cleaving is fine let's shower multiple specs with it.

In other words, Ret's free cleaving was gutted with Divine Storm being made for AoE only, and the specs was made more complex with Holy Power and Inquisition. After wasting all this time and not improving Ret in any other way, they realized that Ret was not too simple, rather the whole game is too complicated (and so they started pruning and consolidating abilities.)

No, it's not a bad mechanic in and of itself, however the intent behind it was very misguided and it was a massive relative waste of development time that has left the class feeling very shallow and outdated, and so to me it's a symbol of misguided design intentions, I speak mostly as a Ret Paladin.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Loved it ever since we got 5 instead of 3, makes us able to pool resources and spend them when we want instead of being locked to a DS or TV cd timer all the time...

[GarGar]

Well, I mained a paladin (healing for raids) in BC and Wrath, but since Holy Power in Cata I've completely dropped the class. I just cannot bring myself to enjoy the class anymore. It's unfortunate, because I really liked pally healing back then, but I now have other classes I do like so I'm not too bothered by the loss.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Well, I mained a paladin (healing for raids) in BC and Wrath, but since Holy Power in Cata I've completely dropped the class. I just cannot bring myself to enjoy the class anymore. It's unfortunate, because I really liked pally healing back then, but I now have other classes I do like so I'm not too bothered by the loss.

See I really liked Holy as well when Holy Power came, big aoe hit inc? pool 5 holy power -> LoD -> Holy Shock -> LoD. Basically free healing with decent numbers. (or it was when I healed 3 years ago)

[Xs]

See I really liked Holy as well when Holy Power came, big aoe hit inc? pool 5 holy power -> LoD -> Holy Shock -> LoD. Basically free healing with decent numbers. (or it was when I healed 3 years ago)

Problem with the system currently, is you have to run the LoD healing against an EF with average overhealing percentage for both, and unless people will die without the ~80k hp (lol) that two LoD's give, then its unlikely to even be worth using LoD.

All of this goes out the window when you're SH ofc, but if thats the case you're mostly using LoD to stack bubbles, and the healing is just a nice side effect.

[Jackielope]

I liked HoPo as Prot and Ret, but hated it with a passion as Holy. I played as holy/prot in WotLK, and then came back for a couple months in late Cata. I had to switch to prot/ret simply because I couldn't stand playing holy because of how bad it felt to play due to having to keep track of HoPo and yet not feeling any sort of meaningful gameplay from it. I suppose it's better thanks to MoP allowing saving up to 5 HoPo while using 3, but it still doesn't feel like really engaging gameplay.

[auswa100]

I don't really mind it either way. In fact I rather like it as a system for prot/ret, however huge tuning issues rear their head when you look at it from holy's perspective.

If HP finishers aren't tuned strong enough you ignore them, but if they are tuned too strong (which is kind of the case right now), then you cast vastly inefficient and/or ineffective heals in order to build holy power...

Hoping for a system overhaul at some point, at least for holy paladins.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Problem with the system currently, is you have to run the LoD healing against an EF with average overhealing percentage for both, and unless people will die without the ~80k hp (lol) that two LoD's give, then its unlikely to even be worth using LoD.

All of this goes out the window when you're SH ofc, but if thats the case you're mostly using LoD to stack bubbles, and the healing is just a nice side effect.

Isn't that a problem with LoD/EF being badly tuned?

[Xs]

Isn't that a problem with LoD/EF being badly tuned?

Its just a problem with LoD/EF being the same exact cost, when normally the AoE would be better but more expensive. Its near enough impossible to tune them against each other while still keeping LoD/WoG somewhat balanced.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Yeah that's what I figured, haven't played holy in so long XD

[Deleted]

HP is the worst thing to happen to Ret.

[Vathius]

Because its only worth using at 3, or its not worth using at all.

Holy power currently is only a resource used for a heal or a strike. It should be changed to 5 Hp much like combo points are utilized. Waiting to accumulate 5 HP should be generously rewarded.

Effect of 1 HP is crap
2 is marginal
3 is ok
4 is good
5 is bloody fucking amazing

Additionally there needs to be an accumulated effect attached to the usage of the Power. eg you can cast a 3 HP TV which causes a bleed for 10 seconds. OR a 5 HP TV which gives you a 25 second bleed. get me? Bleed is an example. Could also be a snare, or a debuff or lifetap of sorts, whatever.

By introducing a timed effect with each level of HP, creates a bit more strategy in holy power generation.

The trouble with this system is making it so we are not like feral druids....