Are you happy with how rogues will be in wod?

[Deleted]

I haven't posted on the forums for a few months.

I'd like to draw motivation to come back to wow and hear what people are excited about for their rogues in WOD. What new features do you really want to try? What do you think is going well?

[Greenyash]

Rogue - not a class, but a state of mind
and yes, I did not change this class

[Ryme]

Single target balance is going well, some might say too well. All specs, if you can play them, are performing very closely at 100.
AoE rotations got somewhat improved.
The combo points on rogue dealy is better than what we had before, though not perfect and certainly misleading.
Having auras able to be refreshed at 30% of their duration is really nice, though not rogue specific.

Not much has really changed, if you enjoyed your rogue before, likely you'll enjoy again in WoD.

[Geckoo]

When a class that is working well mostly gets QoL improvements is hard to not be happy. Our core issues don't break the class so badly that it has a negative effect in how we feel about it... so... meh, as always. Thing could be better, but we are OK.

Right now, the only thing that angers me is poisons going away with talent or glyph changes, why blizzard? why?

[Raic]

Honestly, the CP change has been a nice QoL improvement and I've been pleased with it so far. I like the changes made to AoE/cleave going in, IIRC the only change to that going into this past expansion was CT which ended up being a letdown for me. All specs still feel a bit different, which is nice if I ever want to switch, keeps everything interesting (unlike Hunters where all specs feel pretty much the same).

My only real issues are more nitpicks. I still wish they'd clean up some talents, some feel out of place, others mandatory, and a couple that just feel worthless. The 100 talents don't interest me all that much, DfA sounded awesome when it was announced but it seems to suffer from design issues (are auto attacks still not working with it? Or is that intended?). I also don't like the fact that Sub suffers a bit in the solo department due to backstab requirements, but that's just a minor personal issue.

[Jensxo]

In terms of PvP - It's not really fair that everyone else lost a bunch of abilities where rogues lost practically nothing in PvP.

With the new meta being melee biased and casters having to cast - having a rogue on your team can completely lock down a caster forever.
The toolkit that a rogue has in comparison to every other melee is just mindblowing. Consider this.

Warriors have either a 30 sec CD singular stun from range or a aoe stun with a longer cd + a fear on a 45 second cooldown which breaks.
A rogue has Kidney shot Cheap shot Gouge Garrote Blind Sap.

The fact that a rogues CC is all instant and unavoidable...despite how much melee bitch about on the forums of caster CC being instant is pretty crazy.
They removed all caster instant CC thus making us have to hardcast our CC AS WELL as putting our spammable CC's on DR'S with everything. Most melee seem to have kept their gap closers. Most melee seem to still have their immunities to CC.

But w/e - obviously we will see at 100 WOD if im correct or not but it's really pathetic on blizzards part how for the last 2 months that beta has been out - the whole conversation on casters has been "Melee need to have less gap closers". Once again - blizzard have failed to listen to the community and thus we will go through an expansion of melee domination. I'll still continue to play and probably just beat noobs as usual and listen to them complain about my abilities but that's the nature of the game.

Any player whos been on beta 100 PvP can see an obvious difference when vsing a rogue in comparison to every other melee.
They do lots of damage
They have a ridicolous amount of lock down
They have an incredible CC toolkit for the new meta.

Considering that druids for some reason lost hibernate - i don't understand why a rogue needs gouge or garrote in the new meta. If you stun a caster - when he gets out of that stun he shouldn't get blanketed for 3 seconds and then have to try and fake kick. And then possibly if he actually fakes kick he get's gouged on his next one. Really not cool when you outplay someone but they have abilities that allow them to pretty much just make your "outplaying" useless.

That's just my 2 cents though - from what i've seen on beta 100 - Rogues dominate and they're pretty damn annoying. But here's to another expansion of bad decisions by blizzard.

[Deleted]

Rogues still are a PvP class with all the CC and CDs.
In turn rogues are relatively bad in PvE where CC doesn't matter and defensive CDs matter even less.
You are still the only class that can only do melee-dps.

But I can say for sure; If you liked playing rogue before you will like it even more now because of all these little QoL improvements.

That said I am not going to play my rogue in WoD at least not at first. I am not into PvP and actually I am not that much into stealth even though it pretty much defines the rogue. Suppose it's just the wrong class for me.

[Veraki]

I'll still continue to play and probably just beat noobs as usual and listen to them complain about my abilities but that's the nature of the game.

Umm pot kettle? What is it you are doing in your post?

Swings and roundabouts - happens with most classes and lets be honest ranged have had it very easy for a long time. Instant casts got beyond silly and now the tables turn it will be fun to watch all these fotm players switch classes.

I appreciate you will be sticking with your class though - most won't, so fair play to you.

Also rogue is the lowest played char so doesn't surprise me that they try and tip the balance slightly. Not saying it's right but just that it doesn;t surprise me.

[Riptide]

words

All of a rogues cc is conditional, except for blind which has a 2 minute cd. Perhaps you didn't outplay them as much as you thought. Especially since they fall over in a stun easier than any other class.

[Mormolyce]

CP change was incredible, why it took them 10 years is beyond me.

Everything else is pretty much the same really.

[Deleted]

Single target balance is going well, some might say too well. All specs, if you can play them, are performing very closely at 100.
AoE rotations got somewhat improved.
The combo points on rogue dealy is better than what we had before, though not perfect and certainly misleading.
Having auras able to be refreshed at 30% of their duration is really nice, though not rogue specific.

Not much has really changed, if you enjoyed your rogue before, likely you'll enjoy again in WoD.

Yeah that's sort of my problem. I haven't enjoyed my rogue since wotlk.

I don't care if our aoe was poor. I liked the original plan that we were great at single target but sucked at multi target except for a blade flurry CD (in which time we became pretty bad ass for a few seconds) and that was our trade off.

Things I'm happy with :
- Slice and dice change, being permanent for assassinations.
- Combo points on the rogue.

Stuff I'm not happy with :
- No said "new poisons". Simplification of existing poisons.
- Bleeds being imperative for assassinations rotation, ever since we lost focused attacks.
- No attention to energy regenerations/haste scaling problem mechanics.
- No real choice or customisation due to new talent tree design.

Changes I want to see to Assassinations:

- Nothing has been done about vendetta ffs! it's still just a crap version of hunger for blood. No one has ever come up with a decent end talent for assassinations and it's boring!
- A targetable AOE (like death and decay) poison vial that instantly applies deadly poison to all targets.
and
- Assassinations regaining energy from poison ticks rather than bleed ticks.
- I was really excited about the idea of using swords/axes for mutilate, but they took that out which is disappointing.


Stuff I wanted to see that's controversial :

- Stealth / Vanish Redesign. Something along the lines of shorten the cool down on vanish but add a cooldown to stealth (merg both abilities) to subtlety only.
- Re-introduction of "hit and run" because that shit looked fun.

Subulety changes:

- Some sort of mystical shadow based melee damage for subtlety to bypass armour instead of "find weakness". More of a work "shadow blades" into the spec passive rather than have it remove entirely.

Could be something as simple as replace "master of subtlety" with shadowblades effect upon leaving stealth, and remove find weakness...
So Upon leaving stealth, the rogue gains shadow blades, allowing him to bypass armour for 10 seconds and gain additional combo points.

BUT
Stealth on demand is gone and vanish is on 20 second cooldown.
Thoughts?

[garoboldy]

-full-quote-crossed-out-snip
I've played mage the past (x) years.

/Fixed..........

Infracted: trolling

[Nightman]

Rogues 4 life. I have always like my rogue since vanilla even when grinding out high warlord with no life haha. WoD looking pretty damn good for us.

[Deleted]

In turn rogues are relatively bad in PvE where CC doesn't matter and defensive CDs matter even less.

Lol. Guess you haven't been raiding SoO in 5.4 or any of the harder PvE content for that matter.

[Deleted]

Yeh pretty much. Class hasnt changed too much. With the Cp change i really dont need to think about target swaps and can pretty much swap immediately without needing to wait for redirect or to press it so i dont waste CPs. We still have the best defensives and will most likely be stuck with the odd jobs in raids so yeh im happy with doing the same thing we do now.

Pvp wise im sad to lose Shadow blades and subterfuge is going to make opening on a target harder since we can be peeled now.

[NutellaCrepe]

I'm hesitant as to what spec to use (newly 90 rogue here, played rogue a lot in BC/WotLK though.

I know sub is the loved one in MoP, I mostly play BGs myself so the free combo point ticks are awesome. But from beta it seems that assassin > everything with minimal effort...

[Deleted]

Lol. Guess you haven't been raiding SoO in 5.4 or any of the harder PvE content for that matter.

Please be constructive.
You don't just write "lol" as a reply.
You leave me to guess why SoO is hard. Are you telling me that rogues have superior CC concerning PvE? Cause that's flatout a lie. Or are you merely saying that sometimes you need CC in general?
I really don't know because I am not in your brain, I don't have the same chain of thought you do. You need to tell me the whole story not just the end.

[Deleted]

Please be constructive.
You don't just write "lol" as a reply.
You leave me to guess why SoO is hard. Are you telling me that rogues have superior CC concerning PvE? Cause that's flatout a lie. Or are you merely saying that sometimes you need CC in general?
I really don't know because I am not in your brain, I don't have the same chain of thought you do. You need to tell me the whole story not just the end.

He isnt laughing at your cc statement. Rogues arent used for cc in Raids because kidney shot requires combo points when other classes can do it for free. He is laughing at your "Defensive CDs matter even less". Not dying is the most important thing in raiding and as rogues we 100% have the best kit for it.

[Packing an i5]

I have not enjoyed the way rogue plays since lich king its time to drop the class, trying out deathknight, Warrior, Mage.

[SynergyDarkstar]

Very unhappy with talents, unhappy with glyphs, unhappy with non-lethal poisons, unhappy w/ Vendetta, unhappy with positional requirements on Backstab, unhappy with visual flavor for most abilities, as good as the CP changes are it's the laziest kind of good, mildly disappointed that other weapons for Assassination was reverted, skeptical that Sub w/ Multistrike is a positive step.

HOWEVER, nowhere near unhappy enough to stop playing a rogue. Numerically we will end up fine, if not great. We have solid mechanics, if a bit tedious of a rotation. And for the few that will be left, we'll still have fun