Expansion Confirmed [1-24-15], Heart of Thorns

[Vizardlorde]

I know everyone hates TTH, but I'm still going to quote them because they read my mind and spoke my thoughts for me.



And that's not just outposts, but "events" in general; the devs have been saying so far that everything you do in GW2 will have an effect on the world, but all I've been seeing so far really is just a form of repeatable questing that happens to have a downtime, and nothing of importance will happen as a result of it, because 1. the impact of the events are localized to the immediate vicinity (as opposed to all of Tyria) and 2. will just happen again in twenty minutes. Perhaps the ArenaNet's definitions of "living, breathing worlds" and "events with consequences" is different from mine.

People complained when events were 1 time thing and left lasting effects on the world cause they missed it and anet went back on their word and made living world instanced and repeatable.

[Kelimbror]

People complained when events were 1 time thing and left lasting effects on the world cause they missed it and anet went back on their word and made living world instanced and repeatable.

Yeah, complaining about the format of the event system is pretty silly for a couple of reasons.

1) This isn't a niche game. GW2 is designed to have millions of players. You don't have many permanent events that radically alter the world otherwise most people will feel they missed out or upset at how much things change.

2) They actually do have events that change the world for everyone permanently. Has anyone complaining about this been to Lion's Arch lately?

3) When you fail an event that is an invasion of an area, guess what? That area stays infested until you clear it out. Sure they come back to fight you again, but that's reality. This isn't a world where things we defeat run away with their tails between their legs to never challenge us again.

4) Seeing how S2 was designed, many events are woven together pretty well and serve to create a very fluid environment over an entire zone with any given activity available depending on participation recently. Balancing content where 1 person can do some of it if no one is around (with difficulty) and providing things that 40 people can wail on is a challenge.

They've done a pretty decent job of that.

---Now, perhaps their presentation and marketing of their game/content is over the top. If that's the semantic hard line people want to take, that's fine. All companies do this, we should be able to see through the ad speak by now. But if you actually think there is room for a game to constantly irrevocably change the world, which would require both the most open minded player base and infinite developer resources, I don't know what to tell you. Start a kickstarter for Pipe Dream Online?

[Vizardlorde]

Don't chew me out here, I actually like repeatable story over open world 1 time thing cause I missed pirates of tyria+Dragonbash and I regret not having a fancy monocle and coolookin wings. Usually the lasting effects of S1 story were not very well liked ( empty and now reorganized broken LA, Spores in kryta/maguuma areas, removal of TA U/F)

[Kelimbror]

Don't chew me out here, I actually like repeatable story over open world 1 time thing cause I missed pirates of tyria+Dragonbash and I regret not having a fancy monocle and coolookin wings. Usually the lasting effects of S1 story were not very well liked ( empty and now reorganized broken LA, Spores in kryta/maguuma areas, removal of TA U/F)

Same here. I think most people feel the same way you do. That's why I gave that long winded explanation previously. Clearly ANET received that feedback which is why they changed the method for introducing new content. I didn't play the whole destruction of LA thing and when I logged on for the first time after reading about it....it was pretty crap. I had this desolate, barren city that was my favorite place in the game and I didn't *really* even know why it was like that. It just seemed like crap.

[Meledelion]

The problem is that you overlook the fact that it's easy to go an in between way and make everybody happy.

Why can't events be monthly instead of 1/15min? There's a balance between "All the time" and "Once" and IMO they haven't reached that balance at all yet.

I'll repeat something I've said a lot of times but heck since some ppl are new why not.


Imagine a world where events aren't simple three step events that don't matter, imagine them being long chains which require effort. There's a farmer who needs help keeping vermin in check BOOM EVENT = kill the broad mother. You kill her, the vermin goes away so crops keep growing.
God damn it all these lushes grains have attracted the centaurs, they're quite docile though BOOM EVENT => go out and collect wood so we can build a fence. (this takes a reasonably long time)
The fence is up but now the centaurs are more willing to fight, we need help protecting from their attacks => BOOM EVENT => defend the village
All has been going well in our fight against the centaurs, so well that our surplus of food has attracted more people which require housing so we want to expand our farm to a small village => BOOM EVENT gather stone, wood, ....

and so on you catch the drift, naturally when events fail there's no progress.

In the end you can make the centaurs have siege weapons to attack the farm making it a monthly event which is pretty hard and will most of the time turn the "farm" into rubble starting the chain over.

This way you feel like you going out and killing centaurs/gathering wood/... has some effect on the world instead of walking past doing the event, going somewhere else and on return that same event is starting again.

[Kelimbror]

Why can't events be monthly instead of 1/15min? There's a balance between "All the time" and "Once" and IMO they haven't reached that balance at all yet.

Completely valid point. I think they've gone the direction of quicker turn around time because of the nature of jump in and out play that the game is tailored to. If you look at the new area provided with S2, there's not a lot of room to do longer duration events. I think the longest they stretch is the ones track by dragon timers, essentially the world bosses. Those feel pretty long because when you fail you likely won't be doing it again that day.

Would anything be gained by having that failure or win extended to 7 days? 30 days? I completely agree that there could be room for it, but I'm not sure I see what purpose it would serve beyond 'feels'. Rewards would have to be increased for both failure and victory and I don't see them being able to use existing space to alter the landscape too much.

Now, perhaps there is a lot of room in the general (large) zones where losing an event means there are a set of mobs in one area (and not basically breaking the area like LA) that would normally be NPCs and Vendors. Perhaps winning the event gives you the jackpot of rewards and a special currency and allows you to buy special loot that is only available during that time and only if you completed the victory. I can see how that would be a lesser impacting, but heavily rewarding experience for players. It would really motivate people to perform well, give you something to look forward to almost like a raid reset, etc.

Is that the kind of thing you mean? If so, I think the game could utilize that more.

[Meledelion]

Yes things like that.

[lawow74]

Unfortunately, Megaservers turn that into a whole other can of worms. Their dynamic spawning mechanism precludes a long reset cycle outside of using a boss timer-style schedule. The only way I could see it working is going back to what Megaservers were supposed to combat in the first place: static maps which can end up empty of players and your ability to jump between them. Personally, I'd love to be able to go back to when I could be the only one around playing all by myself when I feel like it, and mob up with everyone else when I feel like it. But I don't get the feeling the majority is with me on such things.

[Gray_Matter]

Unfortunately, Megaservers turn that into a whole other can of worms. Their dynamic spawning mechanism precludes a long reset cycle outside of using a boss timer-style schedule. The only way I could see it working is going back to what Megaservers were supposed to combat in the first place: static maps which can end up empty of players and your ability to jump between them. Personally, I'd love to be able to go back to when I could be the only one around playing all by myself when I feel like it, and mob up with everyone else when I feel like it. But I don't get the feeling the majority is with me on such things.

Megaservers definely play havoc with what I would like to see. I would love to see the zones "progress". Not a lot of people in a zone, you find the centaurs literally take over. Slowly advancing and taking over towns until they control most of the zone. Players will have to go into the zone and take it back over time by helping the locals progress. They might have to get footholds in areas so they can progress further. If the players take it back then you have some super boss portal in and start playing havoc with the area to get the centaurs a foothold. This super boss can be too strong to kill unless you build canons or something like that. That will give the centaurs a way to take back some of the zone before the players can re-establish things. If you kill a named centaur boss, that guy should never return. Have one with a different name take over. He can look slightly different but do the same attacks, etc. The world should be living to a certain extent. If you do this with all of the zones then it will be different every time you go back.

[zito]

Megaservers definely play havoc with what I would like to see. I would love to see the zones "progress". Not a lot of people in a zone, you find the centaurs literally take over. Slowly advancing and taking over towns until they control most of the zone. Players will have to go into the zone and take it back over time by helping the locals progress. They might have to get footholds in areas so they can progress further. If the players take it back then you have some super boss portal in and start playing havoc with the area to get the centaurs a foothold. This super boss can be too strong to kill unless you build canons or something like that. That will give the centaurs a way to take back some of the zone before the players can re-establish things. If you kill a named centaur boss, that guy should never return. Have one with a different name take over. He can look slightly different but do the same attacks, etc. The world should be living to a certain extent. If you do this with all of the zones then it will be different every time you go back.

Some zones operate like you said. Not the entire zone but a nice portion. Fields of ruin, around wildlin narrows, operates exactly like you said. Taking points with NPCs to establish foot holds.

I started a chain of events helping charr take over from the ogres. I was soloing these group events (by the skin of my teeth because of timer) then this big boss showed up chief otyugh I believe (and then the remaining ogre leaders) and all of a sudden while trying to solo like 80 people showed up out of nowhere. Apparently he was a world boss. Go figure.

[Meledelion]

Yea zito that's a popular world boss, but IMO the way worldbosses work is just sad. A huge buildup so you get a Worldboss 1/week with a fight that lasts hours just seems so much more fun than what we have now.

(Note that this doesn't mean there shouldn't be "daily" bosses).

[zito]

Yea zito that's a popular world boss, but IMO the way worldbosses work is just sad. A huge buildup so you get a Worldboss 1/week with a fight that lasts hours just seems so much more fun than what we have now.

(Note that this doesn't mean there shouldn't be "daily" bosses).

Yea it was my first time finding him as I never been to fields of ruin before (this was months ago) I agree world bosses are underwhelming and the journey was better. But I was just pointing out some zones interact like he describes. Perfectly executed? No.

[Gray_Matter]

Some zones operate like you said. Not the entire zone but a nice portion. Fields of ruin, around wildlin narrows, operates exactly like you said. Taking points with NPCs to establish foot holds.

I started a chain of events helping charr take over from the ogres. I was soloing these group events (by the skin of my teeth because of timer) then this big boss showed up chief otyugh I believe (and then the remaining ogre leaders) and all of a sudden while trying to solo like 80 people showed up out of nowhere. Apparently he was a world boss. Go figure.

I have done a couple of those chain events. They are nice in a way but my problem is that they are completely scripted. You have to follow the same chain every time. You can's start getting a foothold from another place on the map. Once you have done the chain it becomes old. There is the same boss to kill at the end, etc. You can't try and make it more difficult by skipping stright to the boss at the end because you have to complete the chain first. There is no AI at play.

[Kelimbror]

I have done a couple of those chain events. They are nice in a way but my problem is that they are completely scripted. You have to follow the same chain every time. You can's start getting a foothold from another place on the map. Once you have done the chain it becomes old. There is the same boss to kill at the end, etc. You can't try and make it more difficult by skipping stright to the boss at the end because you have to complete the chain first. There is no AI at play.

None of this is possible to program correctly or have play out in real time because of one variable: players. This is organic, non optional group content. What you propose would lead to trolling, mass confusion, mass anger, and ultimately a poorly designed game. In a controlled environment, like an instance, sure....but scripts have to start somewhere and have an easy to follow navigation.

While most of GW2's secondary systems are awkward, the way they communicate events via the map and announcements is fairly well done. Making things confusing in order to make them 'more interesting' subjectively wouldn't be a great idea. Maybe there could be more starting points, but it wouldn't serve any purpose. The end result is going to be the same. In the more chaotic zones, like the new S2 stuff, you will see a lot more randomness in how the events unfold based on timing. It's pretty close to what you mention, instead of starting one event by a variety of ways it just has many events possible going on in a given area plus zone wide objectives to work towards (like sandstorms and treasure and whatnot)