Is Destruction too easy?

[Expat]

So we did the Kargath & Butcher last night and more or less all 4 warlocks in the raid were destruction and did very well on the meters (I was first, other 4 in the top 6 or so with a few hunters). Now I don't think this was because all of our warlocks are pro and the rest of the raid is terrible. Nor do I think it is because Warlocks are OP at the moment (LOL!), because that's obviously not the case.

The only reason I can see for this result is that destruction is just too simple to play. New fights, no experience, generally means low DPS while people pay more attention to the mechanics then to their rotation, as people get more comfortable with the fight, the whole raids DPS improves. Our locks were all doing damage close to their SIM'd caps already, while the rest of the raid was well below what they could have been doing. I think it's because the rotation for destro seems to be so easy that even on a brand new fight you've never seen before you can just keep pressing your 1,2,3,4 and get close to max DPS.

I mean, other than using your embers on chaos bolt during procs & buffs and minimizing movement - there really seems to be very little that a destruction warlock can do to improve. The Delta-E between a good destro and a bad destro player seems to be extremely insignificant.

Does Blizzard need to add something to Destruction to make it a bit more complex and rewarding?

[qwee]

I can't really say that the destro rotation were any harder in MoP...

[Gratlim]

Low skill cap spec. Has always been since I play my lock (2007). That's really good if you're tired or bad though.

[Brusalk]

So we did the Kargath & Butcher last night and more or less all 4 warlocks in the raid were destruction and did very well on the meters (I was first, other 4 in the top 6 or so with a few hunters). Now I don't think this was because all of our warlocks are pro and the rest of the raid is terrible. Nor do I think it is because Warlocks are OP at the moment (LOL!), because that's obviously not the case.

The only reason I can see for this result is that destruction is just too simple to play. New fights, no experience, generally means low DPS while people pay more attention to the mechanics then to their rotation, as people get more comfortable with the fight, the whole raids DPS improves. Our locks were all doing damage close to their SIM'd caps already, while the rest of the raid was well below what they could have been doing. I think it's because the rotation for destro seems to be so easy that even on a brand new fight you've never seen before you can just keep pressing your 1,2,3,4 and get close to max DPS.

I mean, other than using your embers on chaos bolt during procs & buffs and minimizing movement - there really seems to be very little that a destruction warlock can do to improve. The Delta-E between a good destro and a bad destro player seems to be extremely insignificant.

Does Blizzard need to add something to Destruction to make it a bit more complex and rewarding?

Better Destruction players differentiate themselves primarily on multi-target fights where proper use of embers/havoc/shadowburn makes a huge difference in DPS. Single target there's some differentiation to be had due to properly using embers, but that's a significantly smaller delta than multitarget fights.

Destro doesn't need anything to make it more complex/rewarding.

[Expat]

No I agree it wasn't much different, but there was some MINOR added complexity with dot snapshot and tier bonus procs to worry about.

Plus we did not have a pet does 25-30% of your damage passively - leaving you even less headroom from your actual play to effect the result.

[Zevoa]

Destruction is the most forgiving Warlock spec, as is intended by it's design; especially if you have even a basic understanding of how to play it.

So no it's not surprising at all...but you're talking about Patchwerk scenarios, when it comes to cleave and encounters with adds you will notice a difference between player skill.

Low skill cap spec. Has always been since I play my lock (2007). That's really good if you're tired or bad though.

Essentially this.

[Sefio]

I just don't understand why lower skill cap specs OFTEN do more damage.

[Expat]

Destruction is the most forgiving Warlock spec, as is intended by it's design;

See this I don't understand. If a spec is designed to be low skill cap anyone and their grandma can play it and do well, how does that balance with high skill cap specs like Demonology??

The game needs to feel rewarding for when you execute a spec well - Why would anyone play a complicated spec like Demo, if you can just play a low skill cap spec like Destro and, by "intended design" get the same result?

[iru]

I don't think there are any specs that are hard to play, there is only a couple of specs which are a bit harder to play than most (sub, feral, demo come in mind) and the rest are just as easy as the others. Destro isn't hard but tbh most of the specs are just as easy and Blizzard doesn't really balance specs by their high skillcaps anyway.

[Deleted]

It is very low skill compared to many other specs, but that's alright. What isn't alright is how a spec such as demo underperforms compared to the amount of effort and skill you need to pull off that spec.

[Gaidax]

Single target destruction is no brainer, the fun begins when adds come out, it's the exact moment when you see who is a good destruction player and who is not.

[Mormolyce]

With the RoF nerf I actually think the AoE "rotation" is way too confusing.

Destro is about the middle of the pack in terms of complicated rotation. I think it flows very nicely and makes a lot of sense, which is actually more important than complexity.

[Zelk]

There are less complex specs around, although I do think Destruction needs another button which changes up how we manage embers.

[Deleted]

So we did the Kargath & Butcher last night and more or less all 4 warlocks in the raid were destruction and did very well on the meters (I was first, other 4 in the top 6 or so with a few hunters). Now I don't think this was because all of our warlocks are pro and the rest of the raid is terrible. Nor do I think it is because Warlocks are OP at the moment (LOL!), because that's obviously not the case.

The only reason I can see for this result is that destruction is just too simple to play. New fights, no experience, generally means low DPS while people pay more attention to the mechanics then to their rotation, as people get more comfortable with the fight, the whole raids DPS improves.

Kargath and Butcher are both incredibly simple fights.
You're also deluded if you think other classes don't have similarly easy specs to play, and if your entire raid is so phased by "kite Kargath into the fire" that their dps suffers for it, then yes - the warlocks apparently ARE more skilled if they're the only ones not dropping the ball.


Destructions pretty simple, so are a lot of other specs, you'll still find people who somehow make a mess of it. Just tonight I had someone asking me how they could improve their dps when they were below the other warlocks in the raid, likewise what Brusalk says is right - you can make some pretty big gaps if you make the effort and have quick enough reactions on add fights and a good feel for how many embers you want to spend and how many you can vent during smaller procs.

The spec is simple, arguably a bit too simple, I'd be happy with an additional ability in the rotation and really liked the crit snapshotting from the tier proc in SOO, it was a nice thing with a short window to react to, thought it added a lot, but it's not a big enough deal to need changing imo.

Having a simpler spec also (hopefully) opens room for them to make the other specs more challenging, since there's always alternatives for people. Not sure that's being utilized atm though.

[PickleballAce]

Low skill cap spec. Has always been since I play my lock (2007). That's really good if you're tired or bad though.

This was certainly not true in Cata, at least relative to most other specs, but otherwise it has been easy.

[Zelk]

This was certainly not true in Cata, at least relative to most other specs, but otherwise it has been easy.

Destruction was fairly simple in Cata if I'm remembering correctly.

[Mormolyce]

Why are people so obsessed with whether it's easy or hard? Far more important is whether or not it's fun.

A spec being hard is a bad thing anyway, almost always means it's badly designed or out of date and full of clutter. Your rotation is not the challenging part of WoW.

Destruction was fairly simple in Cata if I'm remembering correctly.

I remember it being an awful spec where you had to maintain heaps of dots, buffs and debuffs that each did weak damage, despite the theme supposedly being destruction.

The Warlock revamp was a vast improvement.

[Zelk]

Why are people so obsessed with whether it's easy or hard? Far more important is whether or not it's fun.

A spec being hard is a bad thing anyway, almost always means it's badly designed or out of date and full of clutter. Your rotation is not the challenging part of WoW.



I remember it being an awful spec where you had to maintain heaps of dots, buffs and debuffs that each did weak damage, despite the theme supposedly being destruction.

The Warlock revamp was a vast improvement.

ISF was hell actually yeah

[Zevoa]

ISF was hell actually yeah

And yet they haven't moved away from that mechanic.

[Phoenexis]

Destruction was fairly simple in Cata if I'm remembering correctly.

It was one of the most complex specs to ever bless this game back in Cata.