[Ret] Fix my DPS!

[xentropa]

Hey all - just switched from Prot to Ret and still trying to get the hang of things. Any places where I'm really screwing up bad? I only really have one parse so far but feel that at my gear level I should be a few thousand higher than this. Posting Kromog parse because we forgot to turn on our logs until after Gruul.

Also, any quick thoughts on gear? I won the 2H sword off Flamebender but handed to our DK tank as it would better benefit the guild. Thinking of grinding Conquest Points to get the 660 2H...

I'm new to posting here so I can't post full links, but these should work...

Armory: us dot battle.net/wow/en/character/proudmoore/Abscissia/simple

Kromog: warcraftlogs.com/reports/1WFhyaNnC6TbPp3D#fight=28&type=damage-done&source=96

Thanks!

Quick review of Kromog:

1. Strength Pot usage was good.
2. Missed 1 ES cast.
3. Missed 2 EDS casts.
4. aCD on CS = 5.6 seconds. This fight has a decent amount of downtime/running for melee so this ok but if you are able to shave some time off this it should give a slight DPS bump.
5. 4 wasted holy power.

If you are looking to boost your Kromog numbers you can switch to some AoE things when you are breaking out of the hand assuming you are within range of enough targets:
-Switch to SoR if you are within 8 yards of at least 1 other target.
-Use HoTR instead of CS if you are within 8 yards of at least 3 other targets.
-Alternate between FV and DS if you are within 12 yards of at least 1 other target (or you could just DS if you are within 8 yards of 3 or more other targets)

- - - Updated - - -

Hey all again, been sometime.


The issue:

I feel like I am doing really horribad overall. There's another ret paladin that ALWAYS does significantly more dps than me. Yes, he runs a DP/FV build and I usually run HA/FV (due to Scabbard mostly) and watch my dps drop down like a falling star right after the wings are over. I take it, the issue is with me and me only, since I have never sought the gear in order to push numbers.

If someone could bother with my logs and let me know some maybe absolutely crucial mistakes - I'd be very grateful.

The last raid I've been to is not shown in the logs, (M Butcher). But even though I sim at 30k and give 28k-33k (give or take), I believe I must do at least 35k in my current gear. Anything else is underperforming on my side.

Basic log check for Feb 25th Gruul (i think). Also assuming you are the pali starting with Typ.
1. Strength potion usage was good.
2. Missed 1 ES cast.
3. Missed 7 EDS casts.
4. aCD on CS = 8.6 seconds. On this fight this should be more like 4.9-5.3 seconds. (the other Ret averaged 6.4 seconds)
5. 0 wasted holy power.

Things that stand out from this:
-You should be using Divine Storm every time you get a Divine Crusader buff but also pairing it with the FV DS buff. On that fight you had 16 DC procs but only 9 DS casts. Empowered DS + FV buff = hits really hard.
-Your CS usage is very low. It looks like you were prioritizing Judgement over CS. Remember that CS also generates 12% seal damage + hand of light damage via mastery which totals a significant amount of damage more than Judgement or Exo. If HoW is not available and you are below 5 HoPo, CS should be your top priority for HoPo building (if it is available).

- - - Updated - - -

us.battle.net/wow/en/character/doomhammer/Sudzy/simple

A good friend and guildmate of mine has been struggling on his ret paladin recently. His dps hasn't gone up with his item level like the rest of us and it's very noticeable. I don't know enough about ret paladins so I can't help him directly, but in the past couple raids he's been in the bottom percentile and I don't know what to change. Here's logs from our most recent BRF/Heroic Highmaul raids:

Quick check of Butcher:

1. 0 Strength Pots used. This is a significant DPS loss.
2. ES usage was good.
3. Missed 5 EDS casts (11 procs, 6 casts).
4. aCD on CS = 8.7 seconds. On this fight this should be more like 4.9-5.3 seconds.
5. 3 wasted holy power. The Butcher is an easy fight mechanically, ideally this should be 0.
6. Seraphim uptime 27.42%. Target is > 47% uptime.

Based upon this my advice:
-Have them invest in strength potions. Use 1 with ~2 seconds left on the pull timer. Use the other at a later point with AW.
-HoW and CS should be top priorities as HoPo builders and CS usage should be higher than judgement.
-Terrible uptime on Seraphim. They would probably do better trying to clean things up using FV as a 100 talent.

[boombeef]

You could read the T17 post.

I know I am getting old and my eyes are horrible with needing to read at 125-150% on chrome so help me out
I do not see such a "T17 post" and the closest title in stickies is the video "T17 Paladin PoV Thread". I know you are trying to be helpful to a lot of folks here and I appreciate you answering even the silliest of questions. I do acknowledge the "6.0 PvE Ret Paladin Theorycraft & Discussion" which is an awesome post by Solsacra but there is no gear list there. Lots of everything else covered but I was looking for an updated listing that would include the newer BRF items plus bosses they drop from to plan out coin rolls etc.

Looking at this: Anaxie's Totally Revolutionary SoO Retribution T16 BiS & Theorycraft

Compared to this: 6.0 PvE Ret Paladin Theorycraft & Discussion

Side by side, at a glance; right up top of the T16 post had that list which helped. I know it started out with a T14 list and he kept it up for a couple of years. It would be great if you or someone has a link to a post in that 200+ page 6.0 discussion thread to something like that. I failed locating it using the search forum option. I found a couple of posts with incomplete lists pre-BRF, cool little CM gear, Holy T17 BiS list but that is all.

I am currently going though the IcyVeins Ret gear section. It is a huge gear list from item level 575 to 695; not something quickly indexed in my brain. Might as well go through all of plate gear on wowhead right?
I play a few difference classes and had no trouble finding guides for their gearing so I think I am just missing something obvious here.

[Deleted]

Armory Link: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rgoth/advanced
Alternate Specs/Glyphs: Usually DP/FV unless its pure singletarget
Worldoflogs Link: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/QZJ96LTrfKAH3qxj
Questions, concerns, expectations: Compared to other people in the raid I do fairly well, but every time I peek at rankings I see my self very low and cant help but wonder if i do something fundamentally wrong.
Description of Playstyle: I use clcret for my rotation where i use the following prio:

es lh eds5_fv tv_dp_4s eds_4s tv5 how exo_bc eds_fv_aw_exec tv_aw_exec cs j eds_fv tv_dp tv4 exo tv3 ss

I usually try to weave FV and DS when i can hit more than one target

Brutal honesty apprechiated

[Kalshen]

I know I am getting old and my eyes are horrible with needing to read at 125-150% on chrome so help me out
I do not see such a "T17 post" and the closest title in stickies is the video "T17 Paladin PoV Thread". I know you are trying to be helpful to a lot of folks here and I appreciate you answering even the silliest of questions. I do acknowledge the "6.0 PvE Ret Paladin Theorycraft & Discussion" which is an awesome post by Solsacra but there is no gear list there. Lots of everything else covered but I was looking for an updated listing that would include the newer BRF items plus bosses they drop from to plan out coin rolls etc.

Looking at this: Anaxie's Totally Revolutionary SoO Retribution T16 BiS & Theorycraft

Compared to this: 6.0 PvE Ret Paladin Theorycraft & Discussion

Side by side, at a glance; right up top of the T16 post had that list which helped. I know it started out with a T14 list and he kept it up for a couple of years. It would be great if you or someone has a link to a post in that 200+ page 6.0 discussion thread to something like that. I failed locating it using the search forum option. I found a couple of posts with incomplete lists pre-BRF, cool little CM gear, Holy T17 BiS list but that is all.

I am currently going though the IcyVeins Ret gear section. It is a huge gear list from item level 575 to 695; not something quickly indexed in my brain. Might as well go through all of plate gear on wowhead right?
I play a few difference classes and had no trouble finding guides for their gearing so I think I am just missing something obvious here.

The reason you do not see a bis list is because there is no real bis anymore. Every gear set up is within so few dps of each other that u really just want wf and socket gear. Basically whatever drops use it.

[Abscissia]

Quick review of Kromog:

1. Strength Pot usage was good.
2. Missed 1 ES cast.
3. Missed 2 EDS casts.
4. aCD on CS = 5.6 seconds. This fight has a decent amount of downtime/running for melee so this ok but if you are able to shave some time off this it should give a slight DPS bump.
5. 4 wasted holy power.

If you are looking to boost your Kromog numbers you can switch to some AoE things when you are breaking out of the hand assuming you are within range of enough targets:
-Switch to SoR if you are within 8 yards of at least 1 other target.
-Use HoTR instead of CS if you are within 8 yards of at least 3 other targets.
-Alternate between FV and DS if you are within 12 yards of at least 1 other target (or you could just DS if you are within 8 yards of 3 or more other targets)

Thanks for the help! So these numbers are appropriate for my gear then?

[xentropa]

Thanks for the help! So these numbers are appropriate for my gear then?

With a 630 weapon and fairly weak trinkets on that fight i think it would be tough to push much more without going to town on the hands with AOE. Overall I would say you are executing pretty well and is just a matter of time/experience until you learn to min/max specific fights.

- - - Updated - - -

Armory Link:
Questions, concerns, expectations: Compared to other people in the raid I do fairly well, but every time I peek at rankings I see my self very low and cant help but wonder if i do something fundamentally wrong.
Description of Playstyle: I use clcret for my rotation where i use the following prio:

I usually try to weave FV and DS when i can hit more than one target

Brutal honesty apprechiated

I'm not very good at looking at multi-target fights. Someone else might be able to help there.

Quick look at Kargrath:
1. AW use good
2. Strength Pot use: 2nd pot sync'd with Time Warp (not sure if this would have been better with AW, if someone else could shed light on that it would be great)
3. ES usage good
4. aCD on CS = 6 seconds.
5. EDS usage: missed 3 casts (21 procs, 18 uses)
6. 5 wasted HoPo

Upping your CS usage a bit would probably give a mild DPS gain.
I think you would do better DPS on this fight using a talent other than DP. Not enough DS casts (especially hitting more than 1 target) to gain a strong benefit from a DP/FV build on this.

[Deleted]

I know I am getting old and my eyes are horrible with needing to read at 125-150% on chrome so help me out
I do not see such a "T17 post" and the closest title in stickies is the video "T17 Paladin PoV Thread". .

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...amp-Discussion

[Deleted]

Armory: eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/kazzak/Critoo/advanced
Spec: I am running DP/FV
Warcraftlogs Link: warcraftlogs.com/reports/RnA1prFmyag8cJCh
Question, concerns, expectations: I just recently rerolled from Protection to REtribution and i'm not really sure if i'm doing it right. Would like some help with seeing where i can improve.
Description of Playstyle: Well i more or less use the normal priority system described in the guide here on MMO-C.

[xentropa]

Armory: eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/kazzak/Critoo/advanced
Spec: I am running DP/FV
Warcraftlogs Link: warcraftlogs.com/reports/RnA1prFmyag8cJCh
Question, concerns, expectations: I just recently rerolled from Protection to REtribution and i'm not really sure if i'm doing it right. Would like some help with seeing where i can improve.
Description of Playstyle: Well i more or less use the normal priority system described in the guide here on MMO-C.

basic analysis on Flamebender:

1. AW usage: Missed last cast of AW, although it would have only had ~4 sec uptime. ~4 sec lag on 2nd cast and ~4 sec lag on 3rd cast could have increased the potential to ~11-12 sec uptime on a final usage.
2. Strength pot usage: 2nd use was a bit late vs. AW.
3. ES usage: missed 1 cast (6/7)
4. aCD on CS: 6.11. Bringing this down to 5.5 or lower will boost DPS by a bit (this would have required ~6+ additional uses on that fight).
5. EDS usage: missed 3 casts (34/37)
6. 10 wasted HoPo. This is rather high.

[VKP]

Hey all, it's me (again)
Firstly, thanks for the previous reply. I've tried to correct my previous issues (1 - not using EDS enough, 2 - using judgement over crusader's strike)

Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...tion&boss=1706
Armory:http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...D0%BD/advanced
Running build and trinkets: HA/FV with Kyanos and Skull of War 1/4

I still feel like underperforming by a large margin.
I'd love to hear more feedback on my performance.
Thank you in advance.

[Sasume]

Hi Everyone,

I'm usually a holy paladin which I love, but sometimes my guild needs me to go Ret.

I want to make sure I'm doing the best I can, and at the moment I'm really not sure that I'm doing things correctly. I know that I need to update the enchant on my weapon, but I'm kind of waiting for a new weapon before doing that.

Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...DzAd4#fight=18
Armory:http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...asume/advanced

I don't have any logs from last night when we did maidens and mythic twins and bladefist. I seemed to hover around 30k DPS.

Any help would be much appreciated!

I do have the another 2 pieces of the tier set (heads and legs) but they are only 660, I'm not sure whether to use them.

[smokedham123]

I don't like to make judgement calls on others, especially when I don't know them. But in my opinion I would say that he's really not put any effort into researching his class at all, and this is shown by his DPS. It really should be him on here asking these questions, not yourself, but none-the-less as an ex-RL (assuming you are the RL) I can understand the desire to go above and beyond Best of luck with your raids!
#Drae

I just wanted to thank you for your input and insight! I asked for help back on 1/26, and our Ret Pally ate it all up and is now one of our top performers! You have our gratitude and you're awesome for taking the time to help others!

-Karma

[xentropa]

I still feel like underperforming by a large margin.
I'd love to hear more feedback on my performance.
Thank you in advance.

1. AW Usage: this is something I didn't check for on the 3/25 log, but after looking at that and this new one, the same thing happened on both 2/25 Gruul and the 3/1 Butcher kill. Your 2nd AW usage is late (in the realm of 10+ seconds) after it comes off CD. In the case of Gruul you would have potentially had 10 seconds worth of uptime on the 3rd usage.

Working on Butcher log with calculations based upon your alive time (3:16)
2. STR pot usage was good and in sync with AW/Trinket/HA.
3. ES Usage: Good.
4. aCD on CS: 5.6. I don't have the T17 2p but that seems to make this number a little higher since HoW > CS in priority.
5. EDS usage: Missed 2 (14/16)
6. Wasted HoPo: 1

-I would recommend a tracker for when AW is coming off of CD so that you can get a maximum number of uses per fight.
-You may also want to tinker with SW as a 75 talent on the more stationary fights. It's a bit stronger than HA.

- - - Updated - - -

Hi Everyone,

I'm usually a holy paladin which I love, but sometimes my guild needs me to go Ret.

I want to make sure I'm doing the best I can, and at the moment I'm really not sure that I'm doing things correctly. I know that I need to update the enchant on my weapon, but I'm kind of waiting for a new weapon before doing that.

I don't have any logs from last night when we did maidens and mythic twins and bladefist. I seemed to hover around 30k DPS.

Any help would be much appreciated!

I do have the another 2 pieces of the tier set (heads and legs) but they are only 660, I'm not sure whether to use them.

I don't have my Tier set yet, but in most cases it's about a 5% DPS increase if you have the 4p (and a 2-3% for just the 2p). I haven't done enough research on it to see if 680/685 vs. 2 665's in a primary slot... guessing it will be close with the 4p edging it out by a slight margin.

Kargrath

AW Usage: Good (3/3)
STR Pot Usage: Good (2/2 w/ sync)
ES USage: Missed 1 cast
aCD CS: 6.5
EDS Usage: Missed 1 cast (23/24)
Wasted HoPo: 0

Twin Orgron: Do not use HoTR on this. Shouldn't use that unless there are 4+ targets.

I'm still trying to figure out how to incorporate 2p procs into the analysis due to adding a higher priority HoPo builder into the rotation.

From the look of things there isn't a lot you can do except for trying to increase your CS and HoW counts. I do think that if you aren't using the 4p, DP is one of the weaker talent choices on Kargrath (SW is probably the top DPS choice on that fight).

[VKP]

Xentropa, thanks again for taking your time and looking through my reports! I appreciate it very much

As to your comments:

I usually have no problems tracking AV cd. The reason it falls behind sometimes is when I anticipate some movement or target unavailability - (in case with Butcher - that would be charge in a farther corner - it takes him 6 seconds to charge and come back and my AV is coming off cd 4 seconds prior. I deigned that using AV straight off cd would result in significant dps loss due to him running around midway my potioned burst. However, you're bringing up a good point as to the 3rd burst through zerk (which I usually have no hope of living through anyway (bubble included), since -reasons-). The next time we go at him - he will hopefully not live to see the zerk phase.

In regards to the build changes - although I did mingle with other options - I decided to stay true to HA/FV until I get replacements for both of my trinkets (Kagraz and Lady drops). it is when I get those much needed upgrades, that I am going to proceed with DP/FV AoE rotation and SW/FV for single target.

Anyway, thank you again for your time. I'll try to improve and post new logs once I have something meaningful to post.

[Deleted]

Hello guys!

I'm really clueless lately about what I'm doing wrong. I'm severely underperforming. At the beginning of the expansion in Highmaul it felt okay to me but I joined a new guild a few weeks ago and I'm not really able to performe on par with the other players. If I take a look at the rankings I'm doing a pretty poor job (50-80). It doesn't seem like the cause for this are some small fails but rather some fundamental thing I'm doing wrong when it comes to AoE. I saw some Ret videos on youtube and some of them start of Darmac M with like 80k DPS over the first few minutes, slowly dropping to like 50k or something. On my side I drop really fast and end at about 37-43k. Iron Maiden HC is something in the 30-35k range. Furnance HC was 37k last night.

warcraftlogs .com/reports/cjzFyPYCx2A6hTmr#fight=1&type=damage-done&source=16

warcraftlogs .com/reports/cD7XnPbaT3N91A2H#boss=1694&wipes=1

warcraftlogs .com/reports/cD7XnPbaT3N91A2H#fight=3

(please remove blank space)

Darmac for example... I try to have FV buff and Divine Crusader ready when the pack spawns, but in the end I maybe got one real cleave hit on them. Before I'm able to build the HoPo and FV buff for the next attack they are mostly dead. So I tried to weave without FV buff after the initial one over a few tries, but that was no improvement. Same with Operator. But Iron Maidens HC for example... there are 3 targets most of the time, at least 2... but I can't manage to get the numbers I'm theoretical able to do.

Would be very kind if someone could take a look at the logs!

Thank you very much!

[xentropa]

Xentropa, thanks again for taking your time and looking through my reports! I appreciate it very much

As to your comments:

I usually have no problems tracking AV cd. The reason it falls behind sometimes is when I anticipate some movement or target unavailability - (in case with Butcher - that would be charge in a farther corner - it takes him 6 seconds to charge and come back and my AV is coming off cd 4 seconds prior. I deigned that using AV straight off cd would result in significant dps loss due to him running around midway my potioned burst. However, you're bringing up a good point as to the 3rd burst through zerk (which I usually have no hope of living through anyway (bubble included), since -reasons-). The next time we go at him - he will hopefully not live to see the zerk phase.

In regards to the build changes - although I did mingle with other options - I decided to stay true to HA/FV until I get replacements for both of my trinkets (Kagraz and Lady drops). it is when I get those much needed upgrades, that I am going to proceed with DP/FV AoE rotation and SW/FV for single target.

No problem. I completely understand holding AW for more opportune times, I just realized as I was going through them that your kill times for both fights I looked at happened to fall after break points and I'm not sure if that's something that happens with your group consistently on those fights. e.g. had you lived on Butcher and AW had been popped 1 sec in on the pull and immediately after being available, you could have had ~18-19 seconds of uptime at the end if there was a 3rd cast. By delaying 11 seconds, the most you could have had is ~7-8 sec at the end... but at the same time, had everyone who died lived, the kill time probably would have been 40+ seconds faster and removed that 3rd chance. I have groaned many times after popping wings and having him jump away (my own fault for not watching timers).

Good luck on trinkets. I'm chasing those ones as well.

- - - Updated - - -

Hello guys!

I'm really clueless lately about what I'm doing wrong. I'm severely underperforming. At the beginning of the expansion in Highmaul it felt okay to me but I joined a new guild a few weeks ago and I'm not really able to performe on par with the other players. If I take a look at the rankings I'm doing a pretty poor job (50-80). It doesn't seem like the cause for this are some small fails but rather some fundamental thing I'm doing wrong when it comes to AoE. I saw some Ret videos on youtube and some of them start of Darmac M with like 80k DPS over the first few minutes, slowly dropping to like 50k or something. On my side I drop really fast and end at about 37-43k. Iron Maiden HC is something in the 30-35k range. Furnance HC was 37k last night.

warcraftlogs .com/reports/cjzFyPYCx2A6hTmr#fight=1&type=damage-done&source=16

warcraftlogs .com/reports/cD7XnPbaT3N91A2H#boss=1694&wipes=1

warcraftlogs .com/reports/cD7XnPbaT3N91A2H#fight=3

(please remove blank space)

Darmac for example... I try to have FV buff and Divine Crusader ready when the pack spawns, but in the end I maybe got one real cleave hit on them. Before I'm able to build the HoPo and FV buff for the next attack they are mostly dead. So I tried to weave without FV buff after the initial one over a few tries, but that was no improvement. Same with Operator. But Iron Maidens HC for example... there are 3 targets most of the time, at least 2... but I can't manage to get the numbers I'm theoretical able to do.

Would be very kind if someone could take a look at the logs!

Thank you very much!

I'm not very good at doing analysis on cleave fights yet but here's a couple of things that are trends across the logs you posted:
-AW usage is good.
-Your 2nd Strength potion usage is a bit sporadic. Try to sync this with an AW usage and ideally have it up through the entire AW.
-Light's Hammer usage is good and is getting enough hits on average.

Where things get a bit hairy:
-Your CS usage is low. It seems you may be prioritizing Judgement ahead of CS and CS should always be used before judgement if targets are in range.
-Replace CS with HoTR when there are 4+ targets.
-Glyphed Mass Exorcism > Judgement at 2 targets (3+ targets if you are target switching judgement for Glyph of Double Jeopardy).

With that in mind, I believe you are casting Judgement too often compared to the other abilities.

As for being unable to FV/DS weave that can get tricky if your raid blows up adds quickly. Remember that the FV buff doubles the damage of DS, so an FVDS on 2 targets will do the same damage as a standard DS on 4 targets. If it looks like the adds will die before you can FV again, it should do more DPS to just burn DS at that time. It becomes easier to FV/DS weave if you can pool up to 5 HoPo as the adds are coming out.

[Sasume]

Thanks for taking the time to take a look Xentropa

[belashar]

Armory Link:

It won't let me post my armory link until I have posted a few times. I am Belashar on the US server Stormrage.

Alternate Specs/Glyphs:
None, the one's listed on armory are exactly what I use.

Worldoflogs Link:

I use warcraft logs. I am unable to link the latest parse.

Should I be using worldoflogs instead to make this easier?


Questions, concerns, expectations:

According to the logs I parse, I am at about the 50th percentile among my class style and ilvl range. I want to be in the 90th ++ One thing to note is my raid does not have a haste buff, so I am not sure how much that negatively impacts my numbers.

Also, I recently got the last piece of gear to insure I have mastery on all my armor and weapon.
Description of Playstyle:

My main question is the use of Oval or clcret. I used clcret for years, but I like a few features of Ovale. Any thoughts on either? Is there an updated script for Ovale that I should use instead of the default script? I like using one of them, as it makes me less focused on my priority list and more on mechanics. I don't follow it 100% of time; instead, I use it more as a guide.

Thanks!

[MightJ]

Your Armory: us.battle.net/wow/en/char acter/sargeras/Might/simple

World of Logs: 1) warcraftlogs.com/rankings/character/6522035/latest#boss=0&bracket=3
2) warcraftlogs.com/rankings/character/6522035/latest#boss=0&bracket=2

Fights you're struggling to perform on: I struggle on all, looking for a serious critique.

Your spec/glyphs for each individual fight you post questions for IF different than what's on your armory. You can use WoWhead's talent calculator for this!: aoe fights I use LH>Sentence. I will never use Emp Seals I absolutely hate the talent. I also use mass exo for aoe fights.

Any information on why you think you might be having a problem. Highlight your rotation, CD usage, and any other information you think will help it. The more details and the more specific you are, the better!: Looking for a critique on anything possible. If I did not provide enough information please let me know will try to answer the questions better.

Sorry can't post links yet.

[Vedius]

Armory Link: can't post links but I am vedius on stormrage(us)

Alternate Specs/Glyphs: none

Worldoflogs Link: Can't post links but search for progression-stormrage in warcraft logs. I am vedius

Questions, concerns, expectations: I just feel like I'm not doing something right with the 4 piece tier bonus.

Description of Playstyle: maintaining as much dps as possible while still doing what the raid needs me to.