PvP Stats & Ashran

[Deleted]

With the Removel of Reforging, how do stats work on PvP gear now? Or do stats not matter anymore?

Also. I haven't done Ashran yet, I've only got my gear from arenas and bg's. Is there any point in actually doing Ashran ( Apart from reaching conquest cap )?

[Deleted]

The conq versatility off-set items need Ashran rep and for some classes those items are the bis pieces, especially with how stat values change in PvP. (e.g. crit/ms being worse, vers being better, haste being worse for melees but better for casters, etc.)

If you don't want them though and don't like Ashran nor care about the 200 conq more, then simply don't do it.
Getting exalted as well as getting the 200 conq doesn't take long though. ^^

Can you tell me what you mean by this? I'm a Ret Pally ( Not a FOTM reroller ) and was wondering should I just stick with my current gear or do Ashran? I've currently got full gear ( 620 ) and some 626 warforged gear and 2 conquest pieces. See my armory Soloable-Stormscale, EU.

[Fenrkyr]

Versatility is significantly more valuable than the other stats in PVP for many classes. Even though its conversion rating is low, it still gives a flat damage done, healing done, and damage reduction bonus, where critical strikes for example only hit for +50% damage instead of 100% like in PVE, multistrike only gives once chance at a 30% hit instead of two like in PVE, etc. So, the Ashran reputation items that have versatility on them (regular conquest gear does not) may be better for you than going for regular conquest gear with set bonuses. You have to figure this out for your individual spec though.

[Voij]

If you don't want them though and don't like Ashran nor care about the 200 conq more, then simply don't do it.
Getting exalted as well as getting the 200 conq doesn't take long though. ^^

The 3-5 hour queues on a variety of servers beg to differ. :P

Just checked again, been in queue for 1h42min, with /who telling me that we have 1(!) member from our horde-side in Ashran right now.
Sure, Alliance do outnumber us with 4:1 and the server that was merged with ours had 2:1 in favor of Alliance, but still... 1 person?

[Thelxi]

haste being worse for melees but better for casters

Haste is ok-ish (but not great, as it's reduced in value for a melee as long as they aren't hitting the enemy)

What do you mean by that? I knew about crit and ms being worse in pvp combat, but haste? and for melees only?

[Deleted]

With the stat values from the Ret guide from this forum (http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...amp-Discussion) your PvE values would be
Master > Ms > Crit > Vers > Haste

In PvP Ms and Crit have their effectiveness cut in half (50% crit bonus dmg and only one ms roll), so your priority would be:
Mastery >> Vers > Haste > Ms > Crit

Basically Mastery is what you want, Vers is ok, Haste is ok-ish (but not great, as it's reduced in value for a melee as long as they aren't hitting the enemy), ms and Crit are lagging behind when it comes to their dps increase.


For honor gear this is easy: Take the better choice of the 2 for the non-set items and compare your set items to the ones w/o the set bonus and see which one gives you the best stat exchange.
E.g. if you have 1 set item with crit and ms and the off-set piece has haste and crit, it might be better to exchange a piece with ms and haste for something with mastery and haste. Just as an example.
Only take one off-set item though, so you don't lose your set-bonus.



When it comes to the conquest gear, there will be a third choice for every slot, except for the 1250 items and trinkets.
Those items need Ashran reputation and will have versatility on them.

In this case it will be the easiest to use something like the site http://www.askmrrobot.com to figure out which items give the biggest benefit or use an addon like Pawn where you can add the stat values and have each item's "value" be displayed in it's tooltip.


I've done that for you here, but sadly I can't link askmrrobot pages (or at least don't know how to do so), so I'll just list it here instead:

Weapon:      Str-2h (who would have guessed ^^)
Helm:        set piece
Neck:        of Cruelty ( Mastery and Crit)
Shoulders:   set piece
Back:        of Cruelty (Haste and Mastery)
Chest:       Ashran chest, called Plate Chestguard, not Chestpiece like the other 2
Wrist:       of Cruelty (Haste and Mastery)
Hands:       set piece
Waist:       Ashran waist, called "of Victory", Mastery and Vers
Legs:        set piece
Feet:        of Prowess (Mastery and Multistrike)
Rings:       of Cruelty (Mastery and Crit) and of Accuracy (Haste and Ms)
Trinkets:    Crit Medallion and either the Strength proc one or the Strength on-use one, if you have something to pair it with every
               minute.  Don't take mastery + on-use vers one, strength is WAY better than mastery still, even with the values given.

So, you'll want Ashran rep for the Chest and waist item.
If for some reason you really don't want to farm Ashran rep, get the set-piece chest and take the off-set Haste and Mastery hands ("Plate Gauntlets"), those are the 2nd best item to replace.


If you want to fiddle around with it yourself, the stat values I've used are from the afore mentioned guide, taken for Holy Avenger and Final Verdict, as you use these atm.
I changed crit from 2.44 to 1.22 and Ms from 2.53 to 1.77, to reflect the reduced value in PvP and reduced haste a tad as well, from 2.11 to 2.0.

Obviously those values can differ a bit if you use other talents or new things are "discovered" by the theorycrafting people, etc.
But atm those should be up to date, so unless suddenly everyone says Crit >>>>>> all or so, this should be accurate. :3

For further evaluation or more in-depth questions the Pally sub-forum would be better though, I think.
I'm not playing ret myself and can only apply general concepts and logic, but there might always be something I'm missing, so feel free to make a thread over there, or ask directly in the theory crafting thread if you have any further questions about in-depth, secret ret shenanigans. ;>

Thanks man for such an in depth detailed reply. So because my waist and chest don't have Versatility or Mastery, I should get the ashran off-set versions?

If there was a rep button on this site, I'd rep you.