Ret Rotation on 2 targets

[Deleted]

Hey,
I have a question concerning ret-rotation and I cant seem to find a concrete answer in guides.
When fighting 2 targets, for exaple on twin ogron what priority list do you use?
Do you buff your divine storm with final verdict and then use the next holy power on divine storm or
do you just use all holy power on final verdict?
Thanks for your advice

[Spooh]

Yes, as long as you have the final verdict talent it is beneficial to alternate between final verdict and divine storm on 2 targets, meaning you only divine storm WITH the FV buff.

on 3 targets however, you completely switch FV out for DS.
4 targets you swap out Crusader strike for hammer of the righteous.

Also make sure you keep up cencure dot on both targets, and swap targets for every judgment when you can (with the double jep glyph)

[Deleted]

Yes, as long as you have the final verdict talent it is beneficial to alternate between final verdict and divine storm on 2 targets, meaning you only divine storm WITH the FV buff.

on 3 targets however, you completely switch FV out for DS.
4 targets you swap out Crusader strike for hammer of the righteous.

Also make sure you keep up cencure dot on both targets, and swap targets for every judgment when you can (with the double jep glyph)

This is actually wrong, though a lot of guides say this is how you should do it. Even if there's 3 targets, you should still alternate between FV and DS. FV doubles the damage of DS, so alternating between FV and DS is the same as doing two DS and adding the extra FV damage. Even if you have 10 targets, it's still better to weave. Obviously, if the extra adds are about to die, you want to prioritize an extra DS over an extra FV though.

[Deleted]

This is actually wrong, though a lot of guides say this is how you should do it. Even if there's 3 targets, you should still alternate between FV and DS. FV doubles the damage of DS, so alternating between FV and DS is the same as doing two DS and adding the extra FV damage. Even if you have 10 targets, it's still better to weave. Obviously, if the extra adds are about to die, you want to prioritize an extra DS over an extra FV though.

That seems about right. So basically you start using (nonprocc)DS on two or more targets and cast a FV before each DV and at 4 adds you use hammer of righteous instead of crusader strike?

[Deleted]

That seems about right. So basically you start using (nonprocc)DS on two or more targets and cast a FV before each DV and at 4 adds you use hammer of righteous instead of crusader strike?

From two targets and up, you start to prioritize DS over FV every time you have FV buff up, which means optimally, you are alternating between them. From three targets and up, you will do the same thing, but you will prioritize a non buffed DS if the extra targets will die before you will get 3 HP again (so you have no time to get the FV buff). From four targets and up, yes, you start using Hammer of Righteousness instead of CS.

[Deleted]

This is actually wrong, though a lot of guides say this is how you should do it. Even if there's 3 targets, you should still alternate between FV and DS. FV doubles the damage of DS, so alternating between FV and DS is the same as doing two DS and adding the extra FV damage. Even if you have 10 targets, it's still better to weave. Obviously, if the extra adds are about to die, you want to prioritize an extra DS over an extra FV though.

-scratch this, just checked it-

[Meiffert]

That seems about right. So basically you start using (nonprocc)DS on two or more targets and cast a FV before each DV and at 4 adds you use hammer of righteous instead of crusader strike?

That is correct.
There is a ret guide here, where you can find almost all important information including this.

Cleave and AoE
Final Verdict AoE

• While using the Final Verdict Talent, once two or more targets are present, you will alternate finishers between Final Verdict & Divine Storm. Take note of the availability of the Final Verdict buff before using Divine Storm.
  ...
• Once four targets are present, Crusader Strike is substituted for Hammer of the Righteous

[Deleted]

Alright, thanks guys.

[schaymus]

like. mucho like.

[micwini]

From how many targets should you start using seal of the righteouss?

[Deleted]

From how many targets should you start using seal of the righteouss?

2 IF you can't keep full censure dots ticking on both.

[Floross]

2 IF you can't keep full censure dots ticking on both.

To clarify on this, for twins , keeping x5 stacks of censure on both is better.

[Deleted]

To clarify on this, for twins , keeping x5 stacks of censure on both is better.

So you're saying, even if I have 100% uptime on one of them and only 80% or so on the other, Seal of Righteouss would be better? Because I think even if you're switching target on every Judgement, which is already pretty rough, you're going to have a hard time keeping censure, especially during whirlwind.

I kind of need to know because I'm going to focus on target switching on Twins today, but I'm not super good at it (I find tab targetting unreliable somehow, I feel like I sometimes have to press tab twice and sometimes just once, which confuses me) so if there's a substantial difference between the seals I might want to switch.

[Basemath]

So you're saying, even if I have 100% uptime on one of them and only 80% or so on the other, Seal of Righteouss would be better? Because I think even if you're switching target on every Judgement, which is already pretty rough, you're going to have a hard time keeping censure, especially during whirlwind.

I kind of need to know because I'm going to focus on target switching on Twins today, but I'm not super good at it (I find tab targetting unreliable somehow, I feel like I sometimes have to press tab twice and sometimes just once, which confuses me) so if there's a substantial difference between the seals I might want to switch.

You're be better off using a macro that judges your focus target (using a modifier) and otherwise judges your current target. That way you can comfortably judge the whirlwind if its tank doesn't take it too far. Easier handling of censure and helps take full advantage of double jeopardy.

Others prefer mouseover Judgment and if no mouseover it judges the target. Some combine the three, judgment at focus (modifier) + mouseover judgment + judgment on target if no mouseover.

[Deleted]

That's not enough to keep censure at 5 stacks on your focus though, correct?

[Basemath]

Late reply soz but yeah it would be a bit slow to build up censure on your second target only by judging it. However, we can seamlessly switch between the twins during our opener CDs with the way they work, so you wanna switch targets to build up the stacks fast. The macro is useful after that point, where you'll judge your focus/mouseover to keep censure up without changing your target.

Also keep in mind that taking full advantage of Double Jeopardy on a fight like twins will ensure censure never falls from your second target.

[Curulan]

That's not enough to keep censure at 5 stacks on your focus though, correct?

You still need to monitor the debuffs on both of them, but I have found that once five stacks are on both, alternating Judgment targets is usually enough to refresh Censure and benefit from Double Jeopardy. This does mean sometimes using Judgment when you would otherwise use a higher priority ability.

YMMV -- Whirlwind usually means (for me) that Censure tends to fall off Phemos more often than not. But when that happens, it's just a matter of swapping over to him once the tank pulls him back over to Pol.

[Deleted]

You still need to monitor the debuffs on both of them, but I have found that once five stacks are on both, alternating Judgment targets is usually enough to refresh Censure and benefit from Double Jeopardy. This does mean sometimes using Judgment when you would otherwise use a higher priority ability.

I personally don't track censure on Twin Ogrons because it lasts so long that as long as you switch in a reasonable timeframe (such as judgements) then it won't drop off either one really (maybe at whirlwind if you didn't reapply before it was taken out).