Rogue population diminishing.. Intentional? What has happened to the Rogue class.

[Gentlepenguin]

i complained about dps initially but honestly it doesn't matter. when i think back to cata we were middle of the road for the entire expansion til we got legendaries. or there was a cleave gimmick fight. i won't turn down more dps but it's pretty clear blizzard never wants rogues to be top dps until the end of the expansion where pretty much no one gives a shit and just wants the next expansion to come out.

[Deleted]

So they sub rogues by what you are saying is 10th out of the 11 classes? Sub is a spec, not a class. Idk what you're doing.

Well, you start the argument by saying you can do top dps if you switch between combat/assassination/subtlety and then you are surprised that I'm evaluating only the top spec of every class? You were talking about rogues as a class and so did I.

And this is using warcraftlogs, which I'm sorry is more then a jerk off contest at best.

This is what folks usually say if they cannot get over the 50th percentile on any relevant fight.
Anyways, I'm sure you know of a better way how to compare the dps strength of classes. What is it?

some of the guilds that have it on farm now are no doubt doing crazy shit to pad and boost meters... Yes even on butcher.

You should know that Butcher is a dps check and EVERYONE is doing whatever they can to squeeze every bit of damage they can. If you are not maximizing your dps on Butcher, then you're just hurting your guild. Padding in a small degree might be possible, but that's just talking about those MAX parses you posted and which were shown to be irrelevant.
But it's true that at this moment some guilds can do a lot of crazy things - like killing the boss before the enrage.

[Deleted]

Are the people whining oblivious to the world???

Sub and Combat in PvE are in a fantastic position. Sub and Combat in PvP is also in a fantastic position.

Also like to point out that I have all classes at 100 and sub is by far the most enjoyable spec to play.

P.S. Combat in PvP is a tunnelling machine. Brb can't be peeled brb damage with red killing spree and my on use trinket i can 100-0 someone.

[Hinatahh]

I think the problem with rogues right now is less rotation dependency ( auto attack is of the highest damaging ) , energy starving and overall different feel from what it previously did plus bad gear stat wise since we depend on resources alot and this is the first raiding tier which always was bad for rogues, i also dislike rogue's now because assassination isn't that viable in raids.

Would've linked some logs from my old guild ( which disbanded hence old ones ).. that showed me ( assa/sub ) and an other rogue ( combat ) on different bosses ( mythic / herioc ) but i can't since it's my first mmo post.

sick-eu(dot) enjin (dot) com and click the logs and browse January if you want to see them.. hope this contributed to the discussion as i really feel rogues should receive some changes

to sum my opinion : Rogue's have unfairly high utility and survival and way to low resources and auto attack dependence.

[Artorius]

It's funny how the same thread shows up every time after a while. Clearly shows that the class is all right.
Haste will fix it.

[Deleted]

Honestly my favourite spec in the game is Sub (PvE) and the numbers on it are very good, I find that it is far harder to pull the numbers on a rogue than the other classes I've played but I guess that's more down to personal opinions but if others share that view that may be why people think rogues are far worse off than they actually are.

P.S. Rogue survivability is king! Evasion, Feint and CoS allow so much cheese :P

[Thelxi]

I'm very happy with my rogue atm as well. I do wish Blizzard would stop trying to create niches for every spec though, and I miss assassination.

[soulzek]

Posts: 1

and you all let this get multi-paged. you should be ashamed

[Miko]

Stop being dense. Rogue is 10 out of 11th class wise for mythic butcher. Class wise is all that really matters any more with how easy it is to change specs on hybrids. 10th out of 11th is not "AMONG" the top dps.

But they are not 10 out of the 11. Thats simply not true.

[speedymonkey]

One thing about rogues that's disappointing to me is the talent tree, A lot of talents are underwhelming, useless or buggy. A rework of the talents would be great.

[Deleted]

One thing about rogues that's disappointing to me is the talent tree, A lot of talents are underwhelming, useless or buggy. A rework of the talents would be great.

This. The glyphs also are very uninspiring

[Gurg]

One thing about rogues that's disappointing to me is the talent tree, A lot of talents are underwhelming, useless or buggy. A rework of the talents would be great.

Wow.. really? have you visited DKs talent tree recently? Its utter crap. Im not saying that rogues is better, just that there is more disappointing tree's than ours.

My biggest complaint is that I've got a ton of combat weapons and I'm still using 2 645 daggers because no others have dropped for me.

The weapon situation is pretty obnoxious. If we're the only class that uses daggers, they should come as a set rather than individual weapons. Just my humble opinion, though.

For a brief period of time, somewhere close to end beta there was a attempt to give assassination and sub valuable weapon options besides daggers. They scrapped that idea quickly as it was late in beta and they prolly didnt had enough time to balance it trough (official reply never came in to they are dropping the idea) but that was obvious attempt to do something with rogues.

[Maelstrom51]

But they are not 10 out of the 11. Thats simply not true.

Ok then. Which classes are lower than rogue, and why do you believe that?

[Nofo]

Alot of people truely dont know how to play rogue properly and there are only a small amount of people who can truely bring potential to rogue and rogue has been somewhat most technical class in the game, alot of people cannot handle that. Nothing wrong with that just how its been, i for example can play rogue to a OK level not super fantastic or anything but im looking to main rogue and that be only toon i play so hopefully i can achieve the level of play other have gotten

[Deleted]

Alot of people truely dont know how to play rogue properly and there are only a small amount of people who can truely bring potential to rogue and rogue has been somewhat most technical class in the game, alot of people cannot handle that.

Unsure if serious.

[Tripax]

Combat - clunky.

Subtlety - bad effort and results ratio.

Assassination - bad dps.

[ymirsson]

Alot of people truely dont know how to play rogue properly and there are only a small amount of people who can truely bring potential to rogue and rogue has been somewhat most technical class in the game, alot of people cannot handle that. Nothing wrong with that just how its been, i for example can play rogue to a OK level not super fantastic or anything but im looking to main rogue and that be only toon i play so hopefully i can achieve the level of play other have gotten

You just have to combo point harder!

[Deleted]

Rogues are the lower-class of World of Warcraft, having to work four times as hard to stay alive

Enter a couple of arenas as a resto shaman, and tell me that again. Please. Pretty please. (I'd say it's more an issue of other classes having TOO MUCH survivability, than rogues not having enough. Shamans don't have enough. Druids and death knights have way too much.)

All jokes aside: just yesterday, I saw a guy streaming who was playing his rogue. He is a many-time #1 pvp rogue (which means ranked #1 of his ENTIRE battlegroup, multiple times). He currently plays Sub, because Combat is so retardedly overpowered that he does not enjoy it for that reason. In fact, when he listed the top 5 classes/specs that should be SEVERELY nerfed in arena, they were: combat rogues, combat rogues, combat rogues, combat rogues and resto druids. On his stream his teammate told him to go for the resto druid, even though he (sub rogue) said that he'd be unkillable. After 2 minutes of hammering the resto druid who pretty much never even left bear form to heal (just shapeshifting was enough), and he'd proven his point to his teammate, they just /afk'd out without making a fuss about it. This was at ~2800 MMR.

(Combat rogues because redbuff + unavoidable killing spree, deadly throw, and smoke bomb blocking healing... Resto druids because bearform+shapeshifter glyph makes them practically unkillable).

He also mentioned that a good combat rogue + resto druid + mage team should NEVER lose a game, because of those classes being way too overpowered (frost mage isn't that OP, except for... Ice nova.) And I believe that he's probably correct as well.

I don't think rogues are a lower-class, like, at all. They've been competitive from start to finish and their playstyle fits the class. They have a ton of fun abilities to their disposal... So no, I do not agree.

[Deleted]

Tell that to us PvE rogues again pls.

[Gurg]

As i said before.. we went off topic here but a long shot. This topic's title is "rogue population diminishing" and we shifted it over to "are we not or are we at the bottom of the meters."
Trying to move back once again.. DPS and meters aside.. Rogues are quite dull to play, atleast combat and assassination are. Combat - toss as many finishers as you can, when you get into yellow insight start pooling extra combo points via Anticipation to get +1 Eviscerate during deep insight and try to time your CDs for it. Did i missed something? Smoke bomb? Sap? Kidney Shoot? Kick?.. and thats it.
Assassination is no better tbh with energy pooling gameplay, its simply.. dull and not fun and people tend to switch from a rogue just because that, not because were not topping the meters, even before there was a long period of time when we havent topped the meter, yet rogues were "fun" and ppl played it.

Rogues by it self are niche class for hardcore fans of the class, you love them or you dont, theres no middle, you are pretty much aware that you will end up at the end of expansion with exact same rotation and gameplay that you have at the start of the expansion UNLESS blizzard do something with them in meantime.
Im playing enhance as an alt, i dont want to go into performance part because that will start new argument, but gameplay wise, even so Enhance has far more buttons to press which can be sometimes quite overwhelming since they are ONLY class that avoided ability plunge, they ARE FUN to play even being overwhelming at times, way way more fun than a rogue.

Its pretty much that.. Rogues are NOT fun to play any more and taking in the fact that were DPS hoes only thing that kept most of mediocore players playing rogue was their DPS performance. Now when thats out of the window, PvE wise, a lot of people are simply switching, thus our population goes down.