[MMO] Why are non-raiders/causal players subsidizing raiding?

[Poppincaps]

Wow, this thread takes the fucking cake. To answer your (stupid) question, if they broke the entire game up into packs people would stop playing. This isn't Hearthstone. Raiding is the main form of end game content in WoW, especially with the addition of LFR, so if you don't raid, then you are in the minority.

[SodiumChloride]

Where do you stop though?

Should we break all games into components and let players purchase the parts they want? Stealth sections, action sections, cutscences? Could we do the same for movies? Don't like smooching but love big explosions? Pay for the bits of the film you like but not the bits you don't?

The Wow you currently pay for is the product, the whole product. If you don't use bits then fair enough, but if you start that argument you'll be able to find people who can argue for and against every aspect from home cities to crafting to raiding. With the addition of LFR you now have the ability to experience what you pay for and that seems to be a better solution than carving the game up imo.

That is an interesting question. I don't think there is a definitive answer.

Raids though aren't particularly popular and have never been[1]. There is no reason not to sell it separately.

It's like when MS bundled IE into Windows and someone asked Bill Gates why he doesn't bundle MS Office in as well - ultimately it was done to destroy Netscape via a scorch earth tactic with consumers footing the bill (for IE's development via Windows' price), i.e. we were forced to pay for IE via their Windows monopoly.

[1] The elitist culture that developed around it did not help.

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Why are you?

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Only if players don't pay more overall. For example sell one half of the expansion for 30 bucks and then sell the raid content for 10 bucks, not necessarily against that. As long as players don't end up paying more. But it's really too complicated. Raids are often added in patches. Do you want to not give players access to that if they haven't purchased the raid portion of the expansion? Besides it's easier to get people into raiding if it's available to them. New players would end up not buying the raid content and then maybe not even engage in it ever.

That is what I'm suggesting. If I don't raid, I save $10.

Getting players into raiding? They can just buy a raid pack, if they like it, great. If they don't, they won't buy future packs and won't get taxed for it.

Occasionally MMO developers can run promotions like, free raid access for 1 week, so players can try it out at no cost.

Edit: That said, how much you do end up paying for raid packs will in the end depend on,
a) the cost to produce them,
b) the number of people buying
i.e. It's up to market forces, as it should be.

[lawow74]

Without meaning to sound facetious: Because the rest of the content you pay for is worth your money. When that's no longer the case, I hope you'll realize it, and stop paying and playing and take your time and money elsewhere. Let the developers know why you're doing it and the market will take care of itself.

[Afrospinach]

My question is, why do non-raiders play WoW?

This is *the* question, I have never even seen anything close to an answer.

[dejaa]

I don't see a problem with subsidizing raiding, or any other kind of content for that matter. The problem is there's no other equivalent, equally valued end game content. Or in the case of WoD, little other content in general.

[RoKPaNda]

This is *the* question, I have never even seen anything close to an answer.

Fun. There are other things in WoW aside from raiding, and some people enjoy those things. I personally don't understand some of them, but hey if people enjoy them they enjoy them.

[D3athsting]

That is why i canceled subscription.
Game basically degraded to the point, when all solo daily activities can be done from 1 place ( garrison ). Except for raids i rarely need to leave it.
So thanks, not interesting for me.
Even early pandaria with tons of dailies was better - actually i visited different places and had stuff to do ( i mean solo ).

This.
As a former HC raider i must admit there's nothing to do except for useless daily to get useless apexis to buy useless gear and useless daily hc to get useless garrison resources, timeless isle and isle of thunder were way more fun...

[Kaganfindel]

Why do I have to put up with *snip*

You don't. Why are you giving money to developers who make video game content you don't care to play through if you feel resentful about it?

[Deleted]

AFAIK WoW is the only game still standing that follows this system of paying for "everything" and not allowing any sort of selection on "which" parts of content you buy. It also isn't doing poorly financially so there's not going to be any reason for blizzard to change their business model any time soon.

This isn't a thread where the OP is asking why he's not being catered for by the genre. It's a thread where the OP is asking why he's not catered for in 1 specific game but wants to try and throw generalizations at it so it doesn't seem like as much of a rant.

You want a game where you only pay for what you use?

RIFT, LOTRO, SWTOR are all available, have strong populations and excellent content. TESO is changing to the exact model you want soon as it turns B2P (which I believe is in 1 month from now?).

That leaves WildStar (which has now changed it's model to being solo and small group friendly instead of raid-friendly after a poor initial reception) and FFXIV where you do pay for everything but the "raiding endgame" is LFR difficulty and only a minority of the overall endgame.

Then you've got all the excellent pure-F2P MMOs out there where you can literally not shell out a dime and still have access to everything.

[Nalam the Venom]

You pay for acess to the servers, whatever you do ON the servers is up to you to decide for yourself

[Simulacrum]

Without the current endgame of raiding, people would just stop playing the game when they reach what would then be the endgame of the level cap, the way that almost everyone who bought for example GW2 did.

Even people who don't actually do raids are motivated by them existing, in much the same way that people who play amateur sports are motivated by professional sports.

Also, this thread is about as clever as one asking why raiders are subsidizing leveling content. Heck, I would argue that one is more warranted, since you're forced to do leveling content to get to the raids that you actually want to play. We're made to pay for something that we don't want to use, then forced to use it to get to what we are paying for the game for! Then there's pet battles, and pvp, and...

[Deleted]

i dont play gnomes, why should i have to pay for their subs?

[ComputerNerd]

Except for the rare completionist players who actively do everything, then the vast majority are paying for something they get little or no play out of.
You aren't special or unique.

This is no different to the "I hate LFR, I do not like it, therefore it shouldn't be in the game" rants.

You are annoyed over the fact that the game is trying to be something for a lot of players, who aren't you.
Players who have different interests and desires of how to spend their time.

You pay for acess to the servers, whatever you do ON the servers is up to you to decide for yourself

Very true.

[Kathandira]

People hate the selling of mounts because ... they aren't selling game content, they are just selling the rewards.

If they put out a mount galore mini-expansion with epic quests/dungeons that reward you with cool mounts, I doubt people will be complaining much - as that is essentially what expansions are.

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Raids are hella expensive to build though ... Even if I don't play it, my sub pays for it, at the expense of other things I do partake in.

I don't have children, but I pay taxes that fund schools.

Same shit, get over it.

[Edge-]

Why do MMO players subsidize any players who engage in activities they don't do?!?!

Because you don't get to decide where your money goes, and there's a huge variety of people that play MMO's who all want content.

If you don't like how a MMO is directing their resources, you're always free to stop playing or stop spending money.

Unless you're advocating for a game where all gameplay is literally sold piecemeal...in which case I would seriously question why on earth you would think that such a thing would be in any way a benefit for consumers.

[Rukh]

Is this just a complex advertisement for Guild Wars 2?

[Edge-]

Is this just a complex advertisement for Guild Wars 2?

Considering you're the first person to mention the game...no?

[Katchii]

You pay for the game to play it, what you do inside it is irrelevant. This is the most small minded post I have ever seen.

^This...

You pay for access to the game servers and everything that comes along with it. By your point, daily quest hubs, Garrison missions, PvP, and everything outside of raiding should all be sold piecemeal. I don't know exactly how that would change the game... but I don't think it would be positive.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Because since WoW's main form of PvE is raiding, and WoW is the biggest MMORPG, every developer out there somehow assumes that raiding is what makes a MMORPG fun and therefore it is what's needed the most.

At least Turbine and Arenanet got it right.

[kail]

I think the OP is simply asking the wrong question. A better one might have been "Should Blizzard (or other MMO dev) offer a cheaper sub for the non-raiders?"

To that, I see no harm in such a move. Doubt Blizz would do it though, and they don't have to.