Current State of Hearthstone - The RNG grapes turning sour.

[DarkArchon]

I've been playing the game since the beginning, spent a lot of money on it as well. Played about 10,000 arena games and up too early GvG i've had about a 74% win rate. Now it's a miracle if i can get over 7 wins.

Blizzard's premise was that more RNG = Fun. While it was true in cases and started out ok, over time up to now it has turned bitterly sour and is in no way fun. I find myself often times with headaches from frustration and more times hating the game then enjoying myself. Countless loses to people with zero skill that won due to luck. While this is ok once in awhile it shouldn't be happening consistently with every arena run.

I know am not the only one that feels this way. Many of my Hearthstone friends have either quit or play a fraction then what they used to and others are getting close to quitting like myself if the game continues to go in this direction. The game should be enjoyable and skilled based to determine most outcomes. Not all but most.

I know the game is still young but it also needs a massive injection of cards and the new cards can't have power creeping to deter from mass netdecking and seeing a very small pool of decks seeing play in constructed. The current state is laughable at best. Cancer Hunter and Mech Mage make up 75% of what you run into. Another reason the game is getting boring and dull.

These are serious issues that need to addressed to make a better quality game, if not i can see the amount of people playing this game drastically smaller in the future. Less RNG bullshit, more skill based.

[CataclismicSunrise]

How do you determine skill in a card game? You're not face to face, so there's no bluff. It's all electronic, so there's no cheating. Would you rather eliminate the shuffle so there is no randomness to card draws? Are you saying you want to stack the cards in your favour?

Completely agree about the netdecking though. Boring as shit.

[DarkArchon]

How do you determine skill in a card game? You're not face to face, so there's no bluff. It's all electronic, so there's no cheating. Would you rather eliminate the shuffle so there is no randomness to card draws? Are you saying you want to stack the cards in your favour?

Completely agree about the netdecking though. Boring as shit.

A big issue in Arena is players that are able to bypass all or most mechanics and just face smash and the other issue of to much RNG cards that can swing the entire game. While it's ok in Constructed i think Arena should be more of a competitive atmosphere and much more skilled based. Arena heroes starting at 35/40 health would solve much of this and require a person to actually have to think.

[mrgreenthump]

Arena always gets harder longer the expansion has been out. Tier lists get better, casuals have gotten their kick out of the expansion etc etc. Sites like Heartharena are also making the competition tougher, mostly what I see nowdays is good deck after good deck with mediocre players piloting them, you have still some room to play around their plays, but it's a lot tougher now than before. Still somewhat easy to get to 7+ with a good deck. Just getting there with a bad deck probably won't happen a lot anymore.

But on the topic of RNG, yeah it sort of is meh atm, mainly due to what Mechwarper is doing. But that is a problem mainly on ranked.. In Arena though, I kinda like the RNG cards, as you can play around the rng most of the time.

So in short, nope don't really think the problem lies with RNG cards, more with some really unbalanced card combos and few cards that have gone unchecked for far too long(Mechwarper and Dr. Boom say hello). And Arena naturally gets harder due to people getting "expansion fatique" and dropping out, leaving just the veterans to battle it out.

[Twoddle]

Of course winning is fun but for every winner there has to be a loser and the losers need to win a fair amount so that they keep playing. Therefore Blizzard implement randomness in ever increasing amounts to keep everybody playing.

I can assure you that if there were less randomness you would still complain because the games for you would become harder and even more boring due the consistent losers quitting the game meaning you only have the veterans to play against like mrgreenthump said.

The bit about the number of people drastically falling, they said that about WoW too and then Blizzard started to dumb down the game drawing more new and younger players than ever.

[PPN]

There is just no point to be stressed out about a game that is dictated by RNG. I started to play HS a year ago and sometimes i was really frustrated. Now i just evolved to the point where i build some funky decks and dont care about losing anymore. Yes, it can be annoying. But you cant stop ppl playing Facehunter, Zoolock and ChookahChookah mage. Sometimes when i see what i face i just leave instant and hope for a better matchup next game. After all a videogame should be fun. I have an idea for myself what fun means and i can enjoy the game so far.

You mentioned arena, well yeah i tried it. If i would like to lose money on RNG i would go to the casino

[Mormolyce]

I know the game is still young but it also needs a massive injection of cards and the new cards can't have power creeping to deter from mass netdecking and seeing a very small pool of decks seeing play in constructed. The current state is laughable at best. Cancer Hunter and Mech Mage make up 75% of what you run into. Another reason the game is getting boring and dull.

Are you playing ranked? What rank? I rarely see those decks.

[xenogear3]

Card games are old entertainment.
Except a few well designed (such as bridge), it is hard to compete with today's video game.

Lots of people tried it, simply because it has Warcraft theme.
I expect people will refuse to use real $$$ to buy packs the next expansion.

The arena is poorly designed.
Naxx is good, but GvG is crap.

[DarkArchon]

Are you playing ranked? What rank? I rarely see those decks.

Ranks 16 to 7 around there. Not a fan of constructed so i dont push further. But watching Streams on Twitch you see it lots in later ranks as well.

[Zombie240]

The RNG is real vs mech mage. Don't get a good draw? May as well concede

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Quit then, I quit playing it months ago because I found it was simply a source of stress rather than fun.

[Mahourai]

It's hard to get consistent wins in arena because everyone is plugging their picks into spreadsheets and websites that tell them what the best pick in a vacuum is. The average card quality of an arena deck is much higher than it used to be, and you almost never run into people that drafted truly wretched decks. GvG didn't add much card draw or filtering either.

This is an actual problem, sort of, while most of the stuff you're complaining about (netdecks, losing to "zero skill" players) is just total nonsense.

[Agoonga]

I love the RNG, but I don't like the mech decks

[ro9ue]

My view on this game makes it not matter to me. This is my on-the-toilet or while-I'm-making-lunch in the kitchen or something-to-do-on-the-bus iPad game. I almost never sit down and block out time to play Hearthstone at all. I generally fire up Hearthstone if I'm mobile and just want to kill some time. I don't think I ever played more than 3 games in a row in one sitting.

I know how much Blizzard wants to push the eSport Hearthstone thing, but it's sort of like poker. Sure you get a lot of familiar faces at the final table, but at the end of the day luck is the biggest factor and sometimes you get a no-namer like Jerry Yang winning the $12m pot. All skill does in this game is helps you manage bad luck better and take better advantage of good luck. I'd go so far as to say Hearthstone is about luck-management.

That being said for myself and for the vast majority of casual Hearthstone players, it's a great time killer and imo the best game on iPad. The problem with luck-based games like this is I just can't get into it because I know no matter how much time I put into playing, I'll never outplay really bad luck. RNG certainly exists in other games, but not to the extent that bad luck makes a good player lose and good luck makes a bad player a god.

TLDR: Hearthstone and other luck-based games should just be played as time killers. Playing too much of an RNG game, at least imo, is the most frustrating thing in the world.

[proteen]

I almost never sit down and block out time to play Hearthstone at all.
...
Hearthstone and other luck-based games should just be played as time killers.

I mostly agree here. I used to be able to play the game for 2-3 hours at a time. But, the game is very repetitive and frustrating at times - not fun. I honestly find the game more enjoyable now that I play maybe an hour total every two weeks. Will I get the best cards this way or stay on top of my quests? Nope. But I hate grinding/dailies so it works well for my play style.

If you're not enjoying the game, draw back how long you're playing it, or just take a break for a few weeks so the game feels fresh when you return.

[Xenryusho]

How do you determine skill in a card game? You're not face to face, so there's no bluff. It's all electronic, so there's no cheating. Would you rather eliminate the shuffle so there is no randomness to card draws? Are you saying you want to stack the cards in your favour?

Completely agree about the netdecking though. Boring as shit.

Issue with hearthstone is that it's too random. Obviously with a card game draws should determine whether you lose or win with equally skilled opponents and equally good decks, however, hearthstone takes this to another level. Way too many of their cards depend on RNG where a common tactic is dropping one of these rng related cards and hoping it swings the game, this should be a gambit at best. Other cards are are RNG dependent, but so powerful that you're forced to play them because their upside is too good, othertimes they just generate enough value even when failing. This combined with the fact that decks counter each other like it were rock, paper, scissors and the way people jump fifty or a hundred legend ranks at once becomes a problem.


That said hearthstone does a good job at feeling less RNG than it is. I know of other games with far less RNG that feel like they're much worse.

[Eroginous]

How do you determine skill in a card game? You're not face to face, so there's no bluff. It's all electronic, so there's no cheating. Would you rather eliminate the shuffle so there is no randomness to card draws? Are you saying you want to stack the cards in your favour?

Completely agree about the netdecking though. Boring as shit.

No, he's saying that there is too much RNG in the game, something I pointed out months ago. Too many cards have RNG effects built into them. Everyone expects there to be some randomness to a card game. No one wants a bunch of the cards to have their effect on the game chosen at random. That, and the arena is far too random. There's not enough consistency in the 'draft,' and someone can know if they are going to do well or not simply by the cards offered.

[Deleted]

I actually like current Arena more than pre-GVG Arena.

In Arena OP epics or legendaries don't matter. Combos also don't matter. What does matter is very strong common and rare cards. Strong on their own. Such as Flamestrike, Goblin Blastmage, Force Tank MAX, Boulderfist, Yetis etc - you know the drill. You want things that will trade 2 for 1 or 3 for 1. Fancy combos aren't likely to be drafted. Sure you can get some synergy on minions that are easy to synergize (Tiknertown Tech for example) but you're unlikely to get rekt by double warper into annoyo into 2x mech yeti into 2x shredder.

Mages with 5x flamestrike + 3x sheep don't happen as often as pre-GVG.

They're still the most overplayed class in arena tho. At 6 wins or more it's pretty much mage, mage, mage, mage, mage..., oh.. paladin?, mage ,mage...
Why they're so overplayed? They have most direct answers to everything. No RNG like shaman, no condition like priest, just plain deal X damage for Y mana. And most of their answer cards are commons which are bread and butter of an arena deck.

Some classes just plain sucks due to the rarity bias. Warrior works in constructed because you can just make half of your deck with big ass legendaries and call it a day. Common Warrior cards suck. Most of them at any rate. Lots of weapons? Yeah, no. Unless you want to kill yourself because you don't have armorsmith + unstable + shieldmaidens to build up armor.

[Shagina]

If I recall correctly Hafu (definitely one of the best arena players in the game) was sporting a win-rate around 72% for a long time and she still goes beyond infinite in arena. Are you saying you had a higher win-rate than her, but suddenly struggle to reach 7 wins? Because that's a claim you would need to validate with some actual stats before I'd believe you. As for the RNG argument, no. You're wrong, Hearthstone has a lot less RNG than most people believe. 30 card decks and consistent mana growth means you are a lot less likely to get screwed by your curve than in a game like Magic (twice the deck size) and that you won't just straight up lose because you drew too many or too few land. Hearthstone has far less variance than people like to believe, if you're blaming RNG then that is just a convenient excuse.

But this is all based on the premise that RNG is bad, which it isn't. RNG is an important part of a healthy game, variance creates excitement and it actually keeps people playing for longer. If you want a 100% skill-based game, go look up Vs. System and see how that worked out.

[mrgreenthump]

In Arena OP epics or legendaries don't matter.

You don't "need" them, but to say they don't matter is just plain wrong.. Having something like Ysera if you are a Priest means you just won't get outvalued late game, so you can build and play your deck around that.

Warrior works in constructed because you can just make half of your deck with big ass legendaries and call it a day. Common Warrior cards suck. Most of them at any rate. Lots of weapons? Yeah, no. Unless you want to kill yourself because you don't have armorsmith + unstable + shieldmaidens to build up armor.

Warrior with loads of weapons is actually 1 of the most consistent 7+ win deck types I know.. Sure Paladins kinda wreck it, but ALL of my Warrior Arena runs since GvG are 7+ wins, granted Warrior is my 5-6th pick, it's still 1 of the best classes for me performance wise.