Mythic Raiding...Sorry This just needs to happen.

[Creamawheat]

Mythic raiding to stay alive absolutely needs to have the 10-man/20-man option to it. I know personally I am fully BiS Heroic geared on my Ele sham and can do the mythic content the problem is my guild broke up due to the lack of being able to recruit and even recruiting getting a consistent number of people to show on the given raid nights. There is nothing wrong with the difficulty of mythic I love it. But even after talking to many people about the idea of it either having a 10 man option or even being able to flex it but make it guild only or even cross-realm it (last resort type of option, would make it way too casual.)

But oh wait now people are gonna say that it would make it casual and that's not what its made for right? Well why not? The competitive scene will still be just that, competitive . My experience people just have a preference now of how many people they are comfortable with I personally am more comfortable with 9 others than 19 others. Where there are people you feel the opposite. Obviously this is just an idea, and its not perfect by any means. But there is a way to make it work.

I just personally enjoyed the old raiding system the competition was greater you had 25 man guilds doing their content heroic and what not and then 10 man guilds doing their heroic content and such, people raided with whatever they felt comfortable in some 10, some 25. People say the gear difference was an obligation to raid 25 blah blah but forget the competition was in 2 different brackets so the gear was fine. At the end of the day all it came down to was choice of said person wanting to raid you can either join a 10 man guild or 25 man. but now take that concept into just mythic raiding with the gear and such staying the same now all you have is the competition in 2 different brackets again. Which from the people I've talked to both Hardcore raiders 10/10 mythic and just heroic guilds. A lot of them would enjoy that more than the one set difficulty , 20 people or you can't do it.

[Deleted]

The answer is no. The system is fine now as it is.

[Deleted]

But oh wait now people are gonna say that it would make it casual and that's not what its made for right? Well why not? The competitive scene will still be just that, competitive .

No it won't. you're like a Sunday League Footballer asking to have your team in the Premier League and then arguing that it will still be competitive because you'll get beaten every weekend.

Also, why do we need a third post on this very same topic? Do you think more people will agree with you if yours is top of the first page?

[uhohzombies]

Oh, this again? Did you miss the memo as to why it's 20-man only now? I'm sure someone can provide a link to some long-winded blue post on the matter. The long and short of it though is that one single raid size allows them to tune a single encounter instead of two versions of the same thing. Plus, allowing them to assume at least one of every class will be along for the ride and thus designing things that require certain classes to counter.

Mythic raiding will be just fine without a 10 man option. The reasons for your guild breaking up have always been around whether it was 40-man, 25-man, or 10-man.

[Elkas]

Make Mythic flex already. Flex has been such a boon to raiding in general, it really does my head in why they keep adding these constraints all of a sudden to Mythic.

"We need to lock it down to 20 players so we can finetune the fights", holds little value if we look at the current state of Mythic raiding. You have various different group compositions, including ridiculous groups that go full hunter/boomkin with some healers and tanks. You don't need one special group comp to defeat Mythic, so it just boils down to the numbers. I don't get why they can scale enemy health and damage in normal & heroic, but all of a sudden can't for Mythic.

Sure, it'll mean that World First guilds will be using the optimum amount of players for each fight. However, would that really be any different from the current artificial imposed optimum of 20 players? Finally, I really couldn't care any less about World Firsts since they have nothing to do with me or my guildies playing the game.

The answer is no. The system is fine now as it is.

Could you at least explain why that is? Your answer is an empty statement that could be made about anything at any time. For example, you could've made that simple statement about 10/25 mans in MoP. However, time has shown that the flex system is to many an improvement on the system. Your rigid and simple way of thinking breaks down way too easily.

[Deleted]

The answer is no. The system is fine now as it is.

Yeah, it's fine for 0.1%. Have you seen the blackhand kills? rip raiding community.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

This is how it needs to be. Everyone wanted TBC back, and now you have it. The raids are very very difficult, and there is only one way to complete that difficulty.

The issue with numbers and guilds will smooth out over the months.

[krihan]

Make Mythic flex already. Flex has been such a boon to raiding in general, it really does my head in why they keep adding these constraints all of a sudden to Mythic.

"We need to lock it down to 20 players so we can finetune the fights", holds little value if we look at the current state of Mythic raiding. You have various different group compositions, including ridiculous groups that go full hunter/boomkin with some healers and tanks. You don't need one special group comp to defeat Mythic, so it just boils down to the numbers. I don't get why they can scale enemy health and damage in normal & heroic, but all of a sudden can't for Mythic.

Sure, it'll mean that World First guilds will be using the optimum amount of players for each fight. However, would that really be any different from the current artificial imposed optimum of 20 players? Finally, I really couldn't care any less about World Firsts since they have nothing to do with me or my guildies playing the game.

do you have any idea how hard it would have been for blizz to balance raids if mythic had the flex option ?

[Einsz]

This just can't happen. Sorry OP, no.

[uhohzombies]

Finally, I really couldn't care any less about World Firsts since they have nothing to do with me or my guildies playing the game.

That invalidates everything that preceded, frankly.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, it's fine for 0.1%. Have you seen the blackhand kills? rip raiding community.

Yes, I've been there when he died. I fail to see your point and why this is means "rip raiding community". Like every encounter that has ever come before, the guilds that lack in the organization and coordination department will take a lot longer than most to beat it, barring any unexpected nerfs. The highest difficulty in this game has NEVER been for the masses.

[Notdev]

I don't get why they can scale enemy health and damage in normal & heroic, but all of a sudden can't for Mythic.

They actually did a really poor job scaling heroic brf at low group levels, hence why some encounters received a pretty huge nerf at smaller raid sizes, perhaps overnerfing them.

Which just shows the headache that this would provide. You'd have countless people complaining that their group size was overtuned and other group sizes have it easy. It also just doesn't matter for heroic, as there is little to no competitive aspect for heroic modes. Despite how much you don't care about world first raiding, it goes well beyond that. You still have region firsts and realm firsts that would be affected by this change. The competitive aspect of mythic raiding matters more than you think it does.

Its just easier for Blizzard this way too.. they don't have to design raid encounters at the highest difficulty with 21 different raid sizes in mind.

Edit: You'd also have the more competitive groups sticking with 14 or 17 or 11 or whatever on different fights which would end up just causing even more disarray.

[Deleted]

sorry but no, it does not need to happen.

[Deleted]

No its fine, you're gonna have to deal with it.

[Deleted]

You have various different group compositions, including ridiculous groups that go full hunter/boomkin with some healers and tanks. You don't need one special group comp to defeat Mythic, so it just boils down to the numbers.

you've kind of contradicted yourself there. one one hand you say you need specifically boomkins and hunters, then go on to say you don't need a specific comp. which one is it?

And I find it amusing when people say all this regarding class stacking for mythic - not needed until blackhand, and only if you were in the top 100 really. nowadays with 695+ gear blackhand is a walk in the park if you're a guild that thinks itself of being a mythic guild.

And if youre not a mythic guild.... why do you care? If you cant understand why its not scaling, then you never did 10/25hc raiding. the arguments between raiders as to the true difficulty were just as tiresome as this argument is today.

if you're having trouble making a 20 man mythic raid guild, then dont blame it on the game. perhaps you should just join an existing mythic guild.

[Wilderness]

As someone who was in a 10-man guild that had to expand – and I liked the smaller atmosphere of 10 mans – I’m still pretty happy with Mythic and I think the benefits to it being 1 fixed size outweigh the negatives. I’ve been pretty happy with the tuning for T17 thus far (BH is pretty brutal though), and I think a lot of that is because its 1 size. They can develop mechanics and numbers around that size whereas before there were always fights that were easier or harder for 10 or 25 man.

Yeah, it's fine for 0.1%. Have you seen the blackhand kills? rip raiding community.

That’s not an issue with 20 man or 10 man or 25 man though, that’s simply the tuning of the fight. You can argue its tuned too tightly even for its intended audience based on # of kills thus far – lord knows its frustrating spending so much time wiping in P1 – but that’s a separate argument/thread than the fixed size of Mythic.

[Alvito]

The answer is no. The system is fine now as it is.

On a lot of servers it is not working with 20 man groups. The same servers that had 1 or 0 25 man groups for all of SoO and Cata now cannot get 20 for a mythic run going. So with the current system people on lower population servers are just shit out of luck.

[Shamburger]

Bovinity said it best in the other thread

I believe that part of the issue is that raiding used to be something that...well...raiders did. People who didn't like raiding or felt they weren't cut out for it or who didn't have the schedules for it just didn't do it. So your guilds and your pools of players were generally more suited for the task because they were just more dedicated to it.

Then "raiding for all" came along - which I have no problem with, of course - but it started creating expectations in the minds of people who would have - just a few expansions ago - never called themselves "raiders". Now today every single Tom, Dick, and Harry guild wants to call themselves a "Mythic Raiding Guild" in defiance of reality.

Mythic's fine the way it is, if you can't get get the bosses killed then you don't "deserve" (I use that term broadly, since the reason why is irrelivent) to be raiding mythic.

If no-one had killed Mythic Blackhand before the next raid came out then I'd agree there was a problem either with raid size, tuning, whatever you want to blame, but mythic is fine the way it is.

[Vestig3]

Another thread about this? arent there enough already? there is a clear reason they scrapped 10/25man and went with 20, if they bring 10man back they should also bring 25 back.

Also why is everyone always pointing out on the last boss not being killed enough on mythic? there are still 9 other bosses in BRF that can be killed on mythic...

[Teebone]

Personally I think a better move would be the elimination of LFR difficulty and just put the match-making component into normal and heroic. Yes, a normal or heroic "LFR" is what I am suggesting. I like my wow like I likes muh shooters; I want a quick game not sit around waiting for a healer to sign in.

Pre-organized groups can just have additional loot or higher chances of warforging.

[Ohmygonzo]

Making up reasons to why Mythic needs this and that, just to justify your wish to have it like that
Nice one.