Is Altruism a weakness?

[Foreboding]

What better way to stunt one's own potential and development than by focusing their time and resources on other people? Besides making us "feel good", what purpose does altruism actually serve? Imagine if we lived in a world where everyone only focused on their own betterment, only the strong would survive. Yes, it would initially be sad to see the weak perish, but in reality, they are holding back the rest of humanity from progressing in terms of science, technology and intellect.

Definitions
The Strong: Individuals aged 18 years or older that can self-sustain and contribute positively to society's economy.
The Weak: Individuals aged 18 years or older that cannot self-sustain without the assistance of others and cannot contribute positively towards society's economic stability.

(I am aware that many will flame me with emotionally ridden diatribes, but in their hearts they know I am making a valid point.)

[Hooked]

Yes it is. I focus on my family, myself and my people. You need to also focus on yourself.

[I Push Buttons]

Self-interest is rational so being completely selfless is completely irrational.

I would view irrationality as a weakness.

[Deleted]

What better way to stunt one's own potential and development than by focusing their time and resources on other people? Besides making us "feel good", what purpose does altruism actually serve? Imagine if we lived in a world where everyone only focused on their own betterment, only the strong would survive.

Start with Adam Smith and self-interest type ideas. Realise that they're a good proxy for how the world works, but it's a simplification, a shorthand.

End up centuries later in game theory and analysis of collective vs individual outcomes; sometimes understanding the parameters to see why altruistic actions can out-benefit oneself compared to selfish actions is enlightening.

Simply put; human cooperation and competition work together to produce great results, often in different situations.

Like a lot of things, it's all about balance.

[Airlick]

Yes, it would initially be sad to see the weak perish, but in reality, they are holding back the rest of humanity from progressing in terms of science, technology and intellect.

How are they holding the rest back, exactly? Do you think everyone would become a scientist or an engineer if the less capable didn't exist? Or do you think all "the strong" people focus all their energy on helping the weak? It doesn't work that way. Or would you kill off 99% of population, which is probably how many don't contribute to the progress of science and technology at all?

[Deleted]

Have you ever heared about this thing called evolution? I heared it was pretty brutal back in the day. Don't you think that if caring for your fellow man was a weakness, that the individuals that did would've been eliminated from our evolutionary tree?

Also, if being "the strong one" was the best way of moving forward and reproducing, than society would be nothing more then a bunch of tribal clans inhabited by sociopathic manbeasts who'd kill their offspring for a piece of meat.

+ I'm pretty sure you're one of the weak ones.

[Deleted]

a healthy dose is not. too much is definitely.

Although i do not think family and altruism is related.
Family is basically ME, people not of my blood can have my altruism.

[Deleted]

What better way to stunt one's own potential and development than by focusing their time and resources on other people? Besides making us "feel good", what purpose does altruism actually serve? Imagine if we lived in a world where everyone only focused on their own betterment, only the strong would survive. Yes, it would initially be sad to see the weak perish, but in reality, they are holding back the rest of humanity from progressing in terms of science, technology and intellect.

Definitions
The Strong: Individuals aged 18 years or older that can self-sustain and contribute positively to society's economy.
The Weak: Individuals aged 18 years or older that cannot self-sustain without the assistance of others and cannot contribute positively towards society's economic stability.

(I am aware that many will flame me with emotionally ridden diatribes, but in their hearts they know I am making a valid point.)

The real world has more options then just strong and weak. There are plenty of people who cannot self sustain yet sill contribute. For example families where only 1 parent has a income. There are also plenty ofpeople on some form of disability income who still work, paid or volunteer work.

All that aside: helping others on a a large scale makes things better for everybody. If the weak/poor have money they can buy stuff and dont steal. If the weak/poor can have a house, they dont sleep on your street. etc.

Admittedly altruism on a personal level is usually about making you feel good or brag rights, but that doesn't make it less meaningfull especially if you do charity/volunteer work. ie being a coach/buddy for handicapped person helping them find a job or just spending time with them can be very fulfilling to the volunteer, and turn the handicapped person from non-contributing to contributing.

also i personally know very very few people who are 100% self sufficient the day they turn 18, most dont get shit together till mid 20s. If you have student loans you are not self sufficient, and most people still heavily rely on their parents tilltheir mid twenties. scratch that, most people make use of various government aid programs their entire lives, they usually just forget about it when complain about welfare etc.

[Revi]

Altruism is why we've got this far.

You say "only the strong will survive", yeah, that's what happened in our evolution. You know who survived? The groups that took care of each other and worked together. Altruism is an evolutionary trait, and a strong one at that.

[Omertocracy]

True altruism does not exist.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/altruism
1: unselfish regard for or devotion to the welfare of others

Unselfish is the key word there. For it to be unselfish, you would have to get nothing out of it. If you get something, anything at all, it is not altruism. If you feel better about yourself afterwards, it was not altruism. For it to be truly altruistic you would have to help someone and hate yourself while doing so.

[Mekh]

So how do we fit Steven Hawking into this?

Weak body -> let him die?
Strong mind -> let him live?

[Deleted]

Altruism is why we've got this far.

You say "only the strong will survive", yeah, that's what happened in our evolution. You know who survived? The groups that took care of each other and worked together. Altruism is an evolutionary trait, and a strong one at that.

Indeed.

Not only that, but as an engineering student altruism is one of my greatest study methods. By helping others with for example math problems I strengthen my own understanding of math. Rehearsing, and all that.

Or with the play I'm helping with. I'm helping with building the set etc. to improve the quality of the play. That's also altruism...

Cooperation is altruism, and cooperation is what has taken mankind this far. Without it, who knows, we might've never spread the science of agriculture.

[klogaroth]

That anyone can claim that someone living in a post hunter/gatherer society hasn't benefited from altruism is completely beyond me.

Even the greatest survivalists alive today had to gain that knowledge. They didn't invent every technique that they use themselves. They will have been taught the vast majority of them, either by someone in person, or by the written word of someone elsewhere or dead.

Why did those people teach them those skills?

Altruism.

[Flutterguy]

Doesn't sound like altruism at all the way you describe it. Altruism states that moral behavior is always serving the needs of others before yourself. It's actually the opposite of Objectivism which flips the morality to serving oneself. Both aren't practical and ignore human social behavior. For instance, objectivism ignores obligations. Altruism ignores the needs of the self.

[Revi]

What better way to stunt one's own potential and development than by focusing their time and resources on other people? Besides making us "feel good", what purpose does altruism actually serve? Imagine if we lived in a world where everyone only focused on their own betterment, only the strong would survive. Yes, it would initially be sad to see the weak perish, but in reality, they are holding back the rest of humanity from progressing in terms of science, technology and intellect.

Definitions
The Strong: Individuals aged 18 years or older that can self-sustain and contribute positively to society's economy.
The Weak: Individuals aged 18 years or older that cannot self-sustain without the assistance of others and cannot contribute positively towards society's economic stability.

(I am aware that many will flame me with emotionally ridden diatribes, but in their hearts they know I am making a valid point.)

I just.. Eh. Your definitions focused ONLY on the financial aspect, and would mean anyone still in school using student loans or similar past 18 would be considered "weak". Most people who have helped progress " science, technology and intellect." would be weak in your definition.

[Ravenblade]

Strong and weak are fairly binary terms. In general it is defined by those who see themselves as superior often blind for their own weaknesses. It is these multiple strengths and weaknesses which define a human being and not some pointless classification made up by humans, humans which are known to err. You could even say that such a classification is show of true weakness itself. In fact judging someone falsely could easily end up in a missed opportunity for society as a whole.
Some time ago people sought to eradicate people over certain 'weaknesses', years later people came up with ideas of not just accepting them but also integrating them.
So in general altruism does serve at least to protect humanity against making false judgements and at best it gives 'overlooked' individuals a chance to find their place in society possibly without further need of altruism.

[Gilgameshh]

Altruism doesn't exist. Even if something isn't in your best interests, you're doing it to achieve something for yourself. The guy above me is talking about people teaching hunting/gathering... let me ask you something. If you can think of one thing that humans are surely here to do, what is it? Procreate. In order to keep your blood line and species going, you're obviously going to do things like teach survival skills to others. That's not just for them, that's for you as well. If it didn't benefit you in some way, you wouldn't do it. Humans are 100% selfish, as is every other living thing. Just because you're not consciously aware of this doesn't mean it isn't true. I know people want to think "altruism" is a thing, but that word has no place in our reality. That's not a bad thing, either; the word selfish has a very negative connotation attached to it when it shouldn't.

[Mayhem]

u]Definitions[/u]
The Strong: Individuals aged 18 years or older that can self-sustain and contribute positively to society's economy.
The Weak: Individuals aged 18 years or older that cannot self-sustain without the assistance of others and cannot contribute positively towards society's economic stability.

So that´s how you define it? Well, yep, you´re right, lets kill the severely handicapped/ill. Now what?

- - - Updated - - -

I just.. Eh. Your definitions focused ONLY on the financial aspect, and would mean anyone still in school using student loans or similar past 18 would be considered "weak". Most people who have helped progress " science, technology and intellect." would be weak in your definition.

Not really, anyone that can live without a need for personal assistance 24/7 would be considered strong. They positively contribute to society´s economy.

[Deleted]

the weak clean floors make food so the strong can have time to do the hard jobs they would not have time if they had to clean the streets image if all people had a college masters than some would have to clean the street and in return the strong help the weak

[Deleted]

It can be a weakness, but also a means of surviving.