Rotation, t1 talents and weapon enchants

[Deleted]

So, a few questions from returning rogue again.

1. Best enchants for sub and combat? My weapons are: 685 Phemos Double Slasher, 685 oregorger dagger, 685 Hans'gar hammer thingy.
Which should I use for both specs?
Currently running MH dagger and OH phemos axe for both combat and sub. Not sure if I should switch axe to hans'gar hammer thing.
And what would be the most optimal enchants. If I'm running same weapon for both specs then which enchant is the best for both spec, cause I'm not really that rich to swich enchants every time I have to go different spec.

2. I have 700 head and 685 tier head piece, which would give me 2PC bonus - should I use it and if so for which spec?

3. Whats the best sub opener? I've seen a lot of arguing about it back in the days brf were released. I always stuck to standard which would be:
-premed
-snd
-ambush
-hemo
-ambush(subterfuge talent)
-shadow reflection
-rupture
-shadow dance
-rotation


I heard people are using garrote, tho I hate this skill with all my heart. Would this be a dps loss if I were to just apply hemo instead of garrote and then go for rupture asap?

And also - is Hemo worth applying to single target? Off find weakness of course?


4. Should I use subterfuge on sub, or it doesnt work anymore?

[Deleted]

1) best enchants would be multi (frost wolf) I believe unless you have the trinket from butcher and the trinket from kromog then you are best to run mastery enchants. And that would be for both weapons as multi is best stat for both combat and sub assuming your using sub as ST and combat for AoE. With the weapons you have use dagger and phemos axe purely for the multi

2) use the 2piece

3) premed
Snd
Ambush
Hemo
Ambush
SR
Rupture
SD
Rotation

No point using garrotte in opener due to little damage and waste of GCD this may change with the trinket in 6.2 but I don't know, and yes i believe it's still a marginal dps increase to keep it rolling providing you don't use during FW I may be wrong but it's definitely not a loss f anything it is dos neutral

4) subterfuge still works

Hope this helps

[Deleted]

1) best enchants would be multi (frost wolf) I believe unless you have the trinket from butcher and the trinket from kromog then you are best to run mastery enchants. And that would be for both weapons as multi is best stat for both combat and sub assuming your using sub as ST and combat for AoE. With the weapons you have use dagger and phemos axe purely for the multi

2) use the 2piece

3) premed
Snd
Ambush
Hemo
Ambush
SR
Rupture
SD
Rotation

No point using garrotte in opener due to little damage and waste of GCD this may change with the trinket in 6.2 but I don't know, and yes i believe it's still a marginal dps increase to keep it rolling providing you don't use during FW I may be wrong but it's definitely not a loss f anything it is dos neutral

4) subterfuge still works

Hope this helps

After the opener what rotation do you use ?

[Virium]

1) best enchants would be multi (frost wolf) I believe unless you have the trinket from butcher and the trinket from kromog then you are best to run mastery enchants. And that would be for both weapons as multi is best stat for both combat and sub assuming your using sub as ST and combat for AoE. With the weapons you have use dagger and phemos axe purely for the multi

2) use the 2piece

3) premed
Snd
Ambush
Hemo
Ambush
SR
Rupture
SD
Rotation

No point using garrotte in opener due to little damage and waste of GCD this may change with the trinket in 6.2 but I don't know, and yes i believe it's still a marginal dps increase to keep it rolling providing you don't use during FW I may be wrong but it's definitely not a loss f anything it is dos neutral

4) subterfuge still works

Hope this helps

Just to add onto a part that you missed, use the two slow weapons for Combat.

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After the opener what rotation do you use ?

There isn't a rotation, it's just a priority system. There are a lot of rogue guides out there for info on this, but I would recommend Noxe's, as he also uses this opener. It basically all boils down to using 5 combo points for all finisher abilities, refreshing rupture at ~8 seconds and slice and dice at ~11 seconds, using eviscerate when both of these don't need to be refreshed, and using your cooldowns when they come off of cooldown without clipping Find Weakness.

[Deleted]

Just to add onto a part that you missed, use the two slow weapons for Combat.

- - - Updated - - -



There isn't a rotation, it's just a priority system. There are a lot of rogue guides out there for info on this, but I would recommend Noxe's, as he also uses this opener. It basically all boils down to using 5 combo points for all finisher abilities, refreshing rupture at ~8 seconds and slice and dice at ~11 seconds, using eviscerate when both of these don't need to be refreshed, and using your cooldowns when they come off of cooldown without clipping Find Weakness.

I actually wouldn't use two slows for combat in this situation, this is purely down to the fact you are only using combat as cleave in this case so actually using the dagger instead of two slows provides more multi as well as more procs. The only situation equipping both slows would benefit would be during KS

[Virium]

I actually wouldn't use two slows for combat in this situation, this is purely down to the fact you are only using combat as cleave in this case so actually using the dagger instead of two slows provides more multi as well as more procs. The only situation equipping both slows would benefit would be during KS

That's not a thing. Nobody uses a dagger in their main hand unless it's a way higher ilvl than any alternative slow weapons.

[Jarvid]

That's not a thing. Nobody uses a dagger in their main hand unless it's a way higher ilvl than any alternative slow weapons.

That's not true. As Jeffafar wrote "assuming your using sub as ST and combat for AoE" you will be using combat only in case of missing aoe dmg, where a fast main hand beats slow offhand any time.

[PessimiStick]

That's not true. As Jeffafar wrote "assuming your using sub as ST and combat for AoE" you will be using combat only in case of missing aoe dmg, where a fast main hand beats slow offhand any time.

Sort of. It depends on the specifics of the fight, how often you're cleaving vs. single targeting, how many targets, etc.

[Virium]

That's not true. As Jeffafar wrote "assuming your using sub as ST and combat for AoE" you will be using combat only in case of missing aoe dmg, where a fast main hand beats slow offhand any time.

You're just wrong though. That doesn't hold up on H&F or Maidens, so I have literally no idea what it is that you're saying. It's definitely not worth sacrificing the decent single target that you can do as Combat just so you can focus on killing pack beasts or little dudes on Thogar.

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Sort of. It depends on the specifics of the fight, how often you're cleaving vs. single targeting, how many targets, etc.

I have never come across a scenario where it would be worth it to play Combat with dagger(s) intentionally. If your guild is letting you kill all the small adds without touching them so that you can parse, THEN maybe I can see an application, but that's a stretch.

[maddnesskhaz]

There's sims around the forum somewhere (might be on Ravenholdt) about the number of enemies and duration of time needed for a dagger MH to be worth switching to. The short answer is, the more enemies, the less time you need to have on them in order to make switching worthwhile (additional poison procs Blade Flurry out and can trigger multistrikes).


The simplest way to achieve it is to macro a weapon swap in with your Blade Flurry.

Shadowcraft can answer most of your questions regarding enchants. Personally I'd go double Multi on your Sub weapons (Dagger + Phemos) unless you have high MS levels, in which case 1 x Multi / 1 x Mastery. Shadowcraft will give you an idea of whether this is worthwhile. Meanwhile enchant your Forgehammer with Haste and use this and Phemos for Combat on ST.

[Smaxy]

1) best enchants would be multi (frost wolf) I believe unless you have the trinket from butcher and the trinket from kromog then you are best to run mastery enchants. And that would be for both weapons as multi is best stat for both combat and sub assuming your using sub as ST and combat for AoE. With the weapons you have use dagger and phemos axe purely for the multi

2) use the 2piece

3) premed
Snd
Ambush
Hemo
Ambush
SR
Rupture
SD
Rotation

No point using garrotte in opener due to little damage and waste of GCD this may change with the trinket in 6.2 but I don't know, and yes i believe it's still a marginal dps increase to keep it rolling providing you don't use during FW I may be wrong but it's definitely not a loss f anything it is dos neutral

4) subterfuge still works

Hope this helps

This is incorrect, with t17 and anticipation best opener is

Premed at 10
Snd at 2
Pot at 1
Garrote
Ambush
Into sr/rupture
Shadow dance, ambush

Have been sims on opener and this is sims higher than ambush hemo ambush

[Evolixe]

People use slow weapons in sub now? Wha

[Deleted]

People use slow weapons in sub now? Wha

For sub it doesn't matter what your OH is, it just so happens that oregorger dagger is BiS during BRF due to the multi strike, seeing as the OP doesn't have two oregorger dagger then next best is phemos axe as same Ilvl and has multi

- - - Updated - - -

This is incorrect, with t17 and anticipation best opener is

Premed at 10
Snd at 2
Pot at 1
Garrote
Ambush
Into sr/rupture
Shadow dance, ambush

Have been sims on opener and this is sims higher than ambush hemo ambush

It's not incorrect using garrote is a waste of a GCD and is much better to ambush hemo ambush especially with how low garrote dps is, and my source of information is from Noxe just for clarification

[Evolixe]

For sub it doesn't matter what your OH is, it just so happens that oregorger dagger is BiS during BRF due to the multi strike, seeing as the OP doesn't have two oregorger dagger then next best is phemos axe as same Ilvl and has multi

That used to be different, due to poisons iirc. Anyways, that's good to know.

[Smaxy]

It doesn't matter what Noxe says, Garrote->Ambush sims higher. Sims have been done on this forum.

[Evolixe]

It doesn't matter what Noxe says, Garrote->Ambush sims higher. Sims have been done on this forum.

If it sims higher now, that'll only increase once 6.2 hits since 25>30% damage increase with bleeds on.

[Virium]

I'd say that it matters what Noxe says. It seems like every rogue that has top logs has a different opener anyways, last I remember the rank 1 rogue on Gruul opens with Ambush>SR+Trinket+SD+Ambush>Rupture. Sims are sims, they don't always hold up in practice, so show me a log where you are rank 1 on Gruul with the most optimally simmed opener and then let's talk.

[Evolixe]

I'd say that it matters what Noxe says. It seems like every rogue that has top logs has a different opener anyways, last I remember the rank 1 rogue on Gruul opens with Ambush>SR+Trinket+SD+Ambush>Rupture. Sims are sims, they don't always hold up in practice, so show me a log where you are rank 1 on Gruul with the most optimally simmed opener and then let's talk.

RNG will always trump sims in the top logs. Thats why they are top logs. People in there aren't just in there because they are good at what they do anymore.
There's multiple people that could top dps leaderboards at any one time. You just have to be lucky enough.

[Virium]

RNG will always trump sims in the top logs. Thats why they are top logs. People in there aren't just in there because they are good at what they do anymore.
There's multiple people that could top dps leaderboards at any one time. You just have to be lucky enough.

That's pretty much what I was saying in my second sentence. People can talk shit about others' openers all they want, but what appears to sim the best is certainly not the best in practice.

[FrontStab]

Just check the highest parses on WCL for Gruul. Afaik at this point they mostly use. Garrote>Ambush>Dance/Refelction>Rupture> Ambush/Evis Spam> Normal Roation.